It is more complicated than that, but they also select their market (where to open stores and what income bracket to target).
Credit card cash back programs.
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I'm applying my situation to me. I couldn't care less what others do. I'm just calling it like I see it. It's a free country. (At least for the time being).
Others can do whatever they want. Be it pay to be allowed to shop. Wait in line to buy gas a few cents cheaper, or spend hundreds to get singles back. It makes no difference to me.
If you didn't need it, then why did you buy it in the first place, if your going to return it? You honestly go through all that
to get $5 bucks worth of, "free shipping"?
Agreed. We've done the same with Amex Blue Rewards for years. Gas, groceries and utilities go in that card. We get back around $1000 per year on regular spending which hasn't changed in years. I have a separate card for business spending and all rewards are converted to cash back (about $1000 per year). Both cards are paid in full and have never carried balances.
I get why the financial advisors advise against them as it takes discipline. If someone got in a position they couldn't pay them off, it would be financially devastating in some cases. We follow Ramsey's methods (except cc) and have a cushion in those cases.
On the contrary, if you are not responsible and/or financially savvy enough to live within your means and control your spending, then I think Dave's method works. That said, and I've made this point several times now, my ONLY issue with Dave and his followers is THEIR attitude toward people who DON'T NEED to follow Dave's advice. He and his followers treat everyone who doesn't follow Dave like they're idiots. If Dave and his followers left room for people who do know how to control themselves and be financially responsible then I'd have no issue with Dave or the people who follow Dave's method.
This thread is the perfect example of my problem with Dave and his disciples where they attempt to shutdown any meaningful discussion about CC rewards because Dave says they're bad. Then they start with the "data" as if no one can control their spending and everyone is being scammed by the CC companies. You are doing it right now, and if you and Dave targeted your message to the financially illiterate and lazy, I'd say right on, but it gets targeted at everyone. I'm simply here to say I don't want or need Dave's advice but that's not going to stop you and others from posting I'm somehow wrong because other people have a problem with debt.
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I don’t ask my buddy why he was a follower of DR and now he’s sour. He recently forwarded me some invite to the “cruise”
and referred to DR as my guy, not his. Because I’m not interested in DR. I don’t feel I need his paid advice as I have no debt as I type.
But it’s no different than anything else. If a person gets a DUI, do they need to attend a remedial class? Sounds like a good idea.
I can see this is a touchy subject and people are very firm in what they believe in. Maybe the mistake we all make is in thinking one size fits all. I know all too well what I did in my life would likely not work for many.
I know a rich friend who was just criminally indicted. I was shocked and so is everyone. Could he have taken a course to have avoided this predicament? What good is all that wealth now? I’d rather stew about paying $1.60/gal more for milk than to be facing an arraignment.
I don’t know but maybe I’d be suited to join the Bogleheads. My gut says I might have a lot in common with them. Just don’t have the spare time to investigate as I’m working and in the office not remotely. So your guys’ pet peeve is debt and how to manage it, mine is this work from home thing because 5/7 on my team are such and 2/7 do all the work and meetings.
and referred to DR as my guy, not his. Because I’m not interested in DR. I don’t feel I need his paid advice as I have no debt as I type.
But it’s no different than anything else. If a person gets a DUI, do they need to attend a remedial class? Sounds like a good idea.
I can see this is a touchy subject and people are very firm in what they believe in. Maybe the mistake we all make is in thinking one size fits all. I know all too well what I did in my life would likely not work for many.
I know a rich friend who was just criminally indicted. I was shocked and so is everyone. Could he have taken a course to have avoided this predicament? What good is all that wealth now? I’d rather stew about paying $1.60/gal more for milk than to be facing an arraignment.
I don’t know but maybe I’d be suited to join the Bogleheads. My gut says I might have a lot in common with them. Just don’t have the spare time to investigate as I’m working and in the office not remotely. So your guys’ pet peeve is debt and how to manage it, mine is this work from home thing because 5/7 on my team are such and 2/7 do all the work and meetings.
No, he is for the masses. There is always the exception to the rule. That in itself changes nothing. Because for the most part the bulk of this nation is in very poor shape when it comes to handling money and debt.
Dave points out the obvious, because most of the time he's right on the money with the majority of his audience. Just listen to some of the calls he takes. It's downright scary when you realize the majority of the people are like this. And not you guys who are all so busy splitting the atom at the gas pumps everytime you pull into Costco.
The larger percentage of this country is in far greater financial danger than most would admit to. These are simple facts. Look at how many people are underwater with their car loans.
Then look at foreclosures. Or the amount of people who are behind on paying their mortgages. Look at the people who have little to nothing saved... And for the most part, never will have. And don't try to tell me, "it was always like this". Because it wasn't.
These people are spending every dime they make, while at the same time are running their personal debt off the chart. All of this, "creative credit", "cash back", "free miles", "extra points", all makes it that much easier for these people to have what they all think is a valid reason to commit what is nothing more than financial suicide. And that hurts everyone, because it weakens our overall economy.
Money used to be tough to get. I can remember a time, when if you didn't have 20% to put down on a house, the banks wouldn't even talk to you about getting a mortgage. And they wouldn't even consider what the wife made.
And the result was a much stronger overall economy, because it had actual money in it...... Not a bunch of paper and credit that has put our present economy on this financial Kamikaze course. And the government is as much or more to blame than we are.
And again, yeah I get it, you are all way above that. But it doesn't change the dangerous effect this put on our entire financial structure. You are either a spender or a saver. Look at most of what people buy on Amazon. It's mostly cheap crap they don't need.
But it's the easiest way yet to separate people from the money they don't even have. And money should be harder to spend for these people, not easier. All it takes is a few clicks of the mouse, and it comes right to your door.... And right on to your credit card.
So yeah, you may be so wonderful with money, that you feel guys like Dave are way beneath you. But the fact is there aren't enough of you to matter.... In the least.
What matters are things like what I've listed below. And believe it or not, in the long run we're ALL going to pay the price on this. Because it simply cannot continue indefinitely. We're traveling 100 MPH down a dead end road. And that scares me into NOT spending anymore than I have to.
My mother always said to me, the more you spend now, the more you'll wish you had it later... Was she ever right.... Rant off.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nearly-half-less-500-savings-170050488.html
https://www.empower.com/the-currency/money/over-1-in-5-americans-have-no-emergency-savings-research
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/help-paying-mortgage-rent-homeowners-renters/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy...de-down-on-auto-loans-as-used-car-values-fall
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/...023-seen-rising-again-2024-report-2024-01-03/
The cost to join is pretty low, just a simple registration.
But I stopped going back to read, finances are only interesting for a few threads. Plus they tend to use actual numbers and it can feel intimidating to simply not be in their league, not having a high net worth value and all.I hear you, but wow do I get more done at home with less interruptions—and not lose 2 hours to commuting.
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I should check out Bogleheads though I'll likely be the poorest of the bunch. Heck it was 20 mil? needed to loan stock? Maybe I got it wrong.The cost to join is pretty low, just a simple registration.
I hear you, but wow do I get more done at home with less interruptions—and not lose 2 hours to commuting.
In my personal situation, 5/7 wfh, leaving me and another. We are stuck doing all the things that those 5 cannot do, because they are not physically in the office.
Not only that, I'm the only one who has to do on-call incident management (I googled this is a $160k full time job) which became other duties as assigned. Nobody cares about what happens when caught in traffic and how to handle, because only 1 chump could have that happen, me.
What I also learned from my insurance buddy, he said I may get a call at 8 PM. Even 1 AM. I am not on-call. Therefore, I can do whatever I want during the day, doctors appts, kids' school, mow the lawn, because I get my work done. He finally made me realize how people look at it. I don't need to put in 100% all the time. I'm able to put 20% in and the work is done, so the other 80% is up to me lol
I'm not saying this is your situation, just mine. Hopefully you can have an appreciation for my disdain. Heck, Goldman Sachs and JPM didn't mince words, nor did Broadcom. I totally hear you on the commuting, that's not co. time, that's our own time. wfh puts it on the co. When I traveled extensively I would see coworkers stroll in at 11 AM at the site, when I came in the day before. Because they don't want to travel on their own time. But they didn't attend the meetings and lost half a day and go right to lunch.
edit: let's face it, maybe I am jealous and wish my gig were wfh. I actually enjoy the people I work with so my disdain is for my own team, not good. I do know I feel particularly irritated when I have to miss a kid's function, yet a teammate says, "I'll be online after 12, my kid is graduating kindergarten." They come and go as they please...
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Just my $.02. Sounds like you have mismanagement at the team level which very likely could be a leadership flaw. Inconsistent duties based on location that presumably have evolved in a negative way since 2020 I'm guessing, and lack of accountability by leadership.I should check out Bogleheads though I'll likely be the poorest of the bunch. Heck it was 20 mil? needed to loan stock? Maybe I got it wrong.
In my personal situation, 5/7 wfh, leaving me and another. We are stuck doing all the things that those 5 cannot do, because they are not physically in the office.
Not only that, I'm the only one who has to do on-call incident management (I googled this is a $160k full time job) which became other duties as assigned. Nobody cares about what happens when caught in traffic and how to handle, because only 1 chump could have that happen, me.
What I also learned from my insurance buddy, he said I may get a call at 8 PM. Even 1 AM. I am not on-call. Therefore, I can do whatever I want during the day, doctors appts, kids' school, mow the lawn, because I get my work done. He finally made me realize how people look at it. I don't need to put in 100% all the time. I'm able to put 20% in and the work is done, so the other 80% is up to me lol
I'm not saying this is your situation, just mine. Hopefully you can have an appreciation for my disdain. Heck, Goldman Sachs and JPM didn't mince words, nor did Broadcom. I totally hear you on the commuting, that's not co. time, that's our own time. wfh puts it on the co. When I traveled extensively I would see coworkers stroll in at 11 AM at the site, when I came in the day before. Because they don't want to travel on their own time. But they didn't attend the meetings and lost half a day and go right to lunch.
edit: let's face it, maybe I am jealous and wish my gig were wfh. I actually enjoy the people I work with so my disdain is for my own team, not good. I do know I feel particularly irritated when I have to miss a kid's function, yet a teammate says, "I'll be online after 12, my kid is graduating kindergarten." They come and go as they please...
I manage a small team who are all required to be in the office 2-3 days a week. It's my responsibility to tow the corporate line, make sure they get their assigned work done and manage the personalities, among other stuff. Management needs to make sure the folks in the office are not put upon by the other five wfh folks and vice versa. There is a natural give and take too, two of my direct reports commuted to the office yesterday and were an hour late because of train delays.
PS, I get (and personally agree) @supton's point, when I commute in I have 4 hours round trip, assuming no traffic, unforeseen delays, etc. I have a separate office location I can go to which makes my round trip commute ~90 minutes ans saves me $20 or $25 a day but it sets a bad example for my team.
The forum is free, and plenty of “low value” people (like me!). Occasional vehicle thread, and other non investing threads.
I hear you on the commuting being on my own time and ultimately my own choice to live this far from work. My headache not theirs, but wow was it nice to gain that time back *and* live in the sticks…
I do have some remote workers but in my group of three (four with manager) we need to be on site at least two days a week, with everyone in on Wednesday. We each selected a day around that, and compromised on a rotating schedule for Friday. And come in as needed, if our project isn’t working, then it is expected to be on call.
I am following your model (just by chance)
About 17 years ago I went from Cheque and Cash to using C.C. for almost ever purchase: Heating oil, new roof, dentist bills, Insurance, groceries, fuel, Automobile Excise Tax, Appliances, clothing, Walmart sourced general merchandise, etc. I should get the cable bill on there!
I Pay the balance off each month whenever possible which might be 10 months out of 12. I haven't dug into the rewards for a while - but the cash value has got to be over $1500- and double that when used for Travel. Wife and I took a trip to Scottsdale, AZ for my Nieces wedding a few years ago; my accumulated rewards paid for Airline and Hotel - which was not cheap.
I think I am pushing 30g's +/- a year onto the C.C. I don't think every purchase qualifies for cash back though. Haven't read the fine print.
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ah, that's very cool, hybrid. I should say I'm 4 days in, 1 day remote....we used to be 2 days remote. The reason for 4 days is the abuse...we need to meet 60% as a co., but other departments abused it, so by making everyone 80%, with cheating, we should meet 60%...my dept (IT) is strict. has to be 80% and we track it.
I agree with much of what you post. However some of it sounds like the equal of Harley Davidson bashing in those forums.
I don't agree with stereotyping groups of people as "followers" /"disciples"
It doesn't mean I agree with everything he says and does, it just means he does fill a purpose in this insane debt ridden population to at least teach the fundamentals and costs of borrowing money for stuff you can't afford.
BTW- I think if you read my other posts. Im all in on cash back and as previous posts indicate REALLY good at it.
It's a hobby kind of, fun thing to do AND just makes sense if you are financially responsible. Of which my wife and I are and I do find it hard to feel sorry for people immature enough to borrow money from others for stuff they cannot afford.
of that we maintain the highest available credit ratings in the country, that in turn makes all our insurance costs lower on all our paid for toys. Cars, boat, bike and home. Being responsible with debt/credit has its financial rewards for sure and it SHOULD ALWAYS BE THAT WAY, yet it seems like being responsible goes against the "new thinking" in this country. (no politics intended)
In case you didn't see my post on page 1
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/credit-card-cash-back-programs.384068/post-6920792
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My issue is some who are against "all credit in any form" paying everything with cash are basically morally opposed to credit. Guess what? I would have more respect for this position if you just came out and stated that. IMHO-that's the only rational for leaving hundreds or thousands of dollars on the table-standing up for your beliefs.
I get DR position, especially with those that can't discipline themselves, thats is target audience.
But he claims to have not credit cards, only cash and debit.
Can you book flights and hotels with out a credit card ? He never goes into the protections you have to reverse charges with a vendor if there is a problem.
We use a costco card for most purchases, we get a decent check back each year.
We carry no balance on it , its paid every 2 weeks.
But he claims to have not credit cards, only cash and debit.
Can you book flights and hotels with out a credit card ? He never goes into the protections you have to reverse charges with a vendor if there is a problem.
We use a costco card for most purchases, we get a decent check back each year.
We carry no balance on it , its paid every 2 weeks.
DR has a protection most of us would not have. A NATIONAL radio show to completely roast a company that may have screwed him over. But yea-credit cards have laws that give you protection debit cards don't have. In a bad situation with a debit card-you are at complete mercy of the bank to make it right-and no laws to protect you.
I don't have experience paying cash for airlines or hotels so can't answer that.
Agree, and I’ll further add that we never ever use our debit card to purchase anything.
The only time I ever use my card is to get cash out of an ATM because my bank is over 1000 miles away from me and only has one building
Fraud on a credit card is the credit card issuers problem
Fraud on your debit card is your problem
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Great insight. Imho it’s because our micromanaging boss is 1/5 who are wfh.
I’m back to 2010 when my boos competed with me and was credit hungry. 2011-2019 I had decent bosses…
edit: here's an example. On Fridays, I play a game with Mikey. I'm thinking of a number between 0, and 0, that represents the number of cars in the reserved executive area. Mikey pauses, thinks, then he comes back with his answer. Zero?
One Friday I say in our group chat, regarding the parking garage, I got the G.O.A.T. space today, folks! My boss goes, what's that? I describe it, level 2, opposite executive parking, surrounded by a wall and a concrete post. My precious BMW is so safe from dents.
She works from home, but says, I'm not sure you can park on level 2, you better ask around. Huh? She actually chats her boss to say that's what I did! That boss (my former one) says everyone can park on level 2. This is just an insight into the mind of my boss...
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