Credit card cash back programs.

[opus1]

....And all of this type of financial gamesmanship doesn't help, it only hurts. With that said, we are a capitalist society. So why not kill off the starving, seeing as it costs too much to feed them anyway?

https://jalopnik.com/everyone-is-underwater-on-their-car-loans-as-values-plu-1851340337#:~:text=Every year, the price of,over-leveraged trade than ever.

Sounds like a "Modest Proposal..."

 

[CKN]

How much "self discipline" does it take to spend $100.00 in order to get $2 back? (And spare me the comeback that you were going to "spend it anyway").

Dude..
I got $1,300 back last year on my Costco card. Travel rebates.

 

[CKN]

I agree, and that is the overall problem. I'm giving these guys jazz. The problem is for every person who doesn't spend a single dollar more than they otherwise would, there are literally tens of thousands who do, and misuse it, and get themselves more into troublesome debt.

This weakens our overall economy. Credit card debt already is way out of kilter in this country. Money translates into power, and we've become a nation of debtors. And all of this "cash back" and "points" nonsense just makes a bad problem even worse overall.

The banks obviously wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't making them money. Just like Amazon with their nonsense with, "Add an additional $38.00 to your cart, and get $5.00 worth of, "free shipping". Spend more than you otherwise would, and you'll end up with less.

That's the name of the game. Like Robert De Niro said in the movie, "Casino".... The name of the game is to keep them playing. The more they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all".

Look at how many people are underwater on their car loans. They all think they got a, "good deal" as well. Just ask them. This type of crap ruins economies over time. We have far too many people out there that require financial protection from themselves.

And all of this type of financial gamesmanship doesn't help, it only hurts. With that said, we are a capitalist society. So why not kill off the starving, seeing as it costs too much to feed them anyway?

https://jalopnik.com/everyone-is-underwater-on-their-car-loans-as-values-plu-1851340337#:~:text=Every year, the price of,over-leveraged trade than ever.

People who spend more than they should are not my responsibility.

 

[billt460]

Dude..
I got $1,300 back last year on my Costco card. Travel rebates.

Dude, why are you telling me only half the story? How much did to spend total, to get all that, "free money"?

 

[CKN]

Dude, why are you telling me only half the story? How much did to spend total, to get all that, "free money"?

We are going in circles here. I was GOING TO TRAVEL ANYWAY. I was going to spend money on travel and vacations ANYWAY.

I'm out. Have a nice day!

 

[doitmyself]

Dave leaves no room for any exceptions in any of his "products", and that's my point. Dave is a millionaire because he sells a product that he needs to be a consistent message for fear that if he acknowledges the exceptions, fewer people would buy what he's selling. That's also fine, except he's so insistent about it and so his acolytes are so insistent about it, that they obnoxiously come into every conversation believing they and Dave are the smartest people in the room, and anyone who thinks differently is an idiot, that includes comments in this thread.

That is what I'm railing against here...not that CC companies make money or that people act irresponsibly, but that you're somehow an idiot if you know how to play the game. Plus, I can't stand his preachy crap and the fact that he uses his platform to proselytize as a hook to make money, but that's a different issue for me.

Very well said. Thank you.

 

[alarmguy]

The general population can learn more from Dave regarding financial responsiblity than anyone else in our society. They can then understand the cost of debt. No one has to follow a leader to learn the basics of money management with which in the USA pretty much doesnt exist for much the population. They dont manage any money at all, like rodents, they are loaded up with debt and managing debt.
How pathetic is this? and why does one think this is like this? Like rodents people will take everything they can get no matter the cost (in debt)
Except for taxpayer bailouts that started during covid and continue today, taking others peoples money to pay and bail out foolish college borrowing. Guess those needing the bailout for college didnt listen to Dave.

 

[billt460]

We are going in circles here. I was GOING TO TRAVEL ANYWAY. I was going to spend money on travel and vacations ANYWAY.

I'm out. Have a nice day!

That's not what I asked you. How much did you rack up in order to get $1,300.00 back? It's not a trick question. You are typical. You like to tout how much you "get back". But not how much you have to part with to get it back. It's all part of the same equation.

 

[Hermann]

Just from normal everyday stuff I average $35-40 a month in cash back from B of A. It's my fancy eating out place fund.

 

[John105]

CC APR is like 30% right now and their business model is to lure people in with those rewards who think they are financially responsible and think they won't pay interest but then they spend a little bit too much because they maybe lost their job for a few weeks and now they're paying interest on the $500 of necessities and it doesn't take any amount of time for them to get their money back on whatever rewards they paid out with the interest you paid them. The accounting is quite simple really they will never pay out more rewards than the amount of money they get paid in interest, late fees, and cash advance fees. You can tell how an issuer is doing because sometimes they'll reduce the rewards by like half a percent or increase it slightly and that tells you if they have customers who are being responsible or irresponsible. if the customers are being very irresponsible they issuer can crank the rewards up a little bit more to get more people to come in or give a sign up bonus instead since they're very cash flow positive on that particular program and can re invest those profits to get more to sign up to then make more profit and if the customers are being too responsible they'll have to lower the rewards a little bit to stay profitable. I have multiple credit cards and I never once felt the urge to spend more than I was already going to spend with a debit card anyway. 'm still going to have to still pay for it anyway whether it's on credit or debit. Can't pay a penny of interest if you have all your cards auto pay from your savings. And Dave Ramsey's argument against credit card rewards is just nonsensical.

There are times I wonder when people are against using credit, even when folks like us pay in full each month, is there a morality issue with credit? Like it’s immoral and deceitful somehow…. It’d be interesting for someone to come clean. If they have a moral issue with it, that’s fine. We’re all different

 

[John105]

That's not what I asked you. How much did you rack up in order to get $1,300.00 back? It's not a trick question. You are typical. You like to tout how much you "get back". But not how much you have to part with to get it back. It's all part of the same equation.

Wouldn’t it be a function of 2-5%? Clearly over $20k at 5%, $65k at 2%.

 

[John105]

Just from normal everyday stuff I average $35-40 a month in cash back from B of A. It's my fancy eating out place fund.

I just don’t see any reason to leave cash on the table. Say I fill up at costco for $60.

The attendant says hey, there’s $3 left behind on the pump. You want it?

I say no, and drive away. Why wouldn’t I want to pay net $57? Pride?

 

[billt460]

Wouldn’t it be a function of 2-5%? Clearly over $20k at 5%, $65k at 2%.

I would say you're in the ballpark.

 

[billt460]

I just don’t see any reason to leave cash on the table. Say I fill up at costco for $60.

The attendant says hey, there’s $3 left behind on the pump. You want it?

I say no, and drive away. Why wouldn’t I want to pay net $57? Pride?

The whole pride thing works both ways. People are "proud" to rant about the "free money" they get back. But are somewhat embarrassed to admit how much they had to part with to get it. As always, it doesn't take any brains to spend money.

 

[John105]

The whole pride thing works both ways. People are "proud" to rant about the "free money" they get back. But are somewhat embarrassed to admit how much they had to part with to get it. As always, it doesn't take any brains to spend money.

Don’t disagree, for me to get $3 back off $60, it’s not free, I had to buy the gas ie spend, but with gas I’m going to fill up no matter what…I could drive less and save $3 as well. So for me I think $57 is better than $60.

I do think about these amounts. My costco lost power so they were closed yesterday. I was gonna get milk and gas. Milk is more than a dollar more in PA. I had to buy it in PA this AM, so to lessen the blow of the increased cost, I got 1% not whole.

I still paid more for 1% in my town, than it would have cost for whole at Costco in NJ. I just wanted to soften the blow of the greater expense. We’ll be ok with 1%. I can’t control a freak event where Costco lost power, but I can control my own spending …

 

[tbm5690]

The whole pride thing works both ways. People are "proud" to rant about the "free money" they get back. But are somewhat embarrassed to admit how much they had to part with to get it. As always, it doesn't take any brains to spend money.

Picking one category, I budget $1000/month for groceries. My wife spends $1000/month +/- about $30 on groceries. At $12k per year and 2% that's $240 that I get back on groceries that I would not get back spending the same $12k in cash, which would be far less convenient and not give me $240 towards airfare in my particular case. That airfare is purchased annually...tickets for a family visit. That happens period...no splurge because I have earned "free money" but because I will pay to go see my family every year. Why not reduce the cost of that trip by putting groceries on a card?

 

[PWMDMD]

The general population can learn more from Dave regarding financial responsiblity than anyone else in our society. They can then understand the cost of debt. No one has to follow a leader to learn the basics of money management with which in the USA pretty much doesnt exist for much the population. They dont manage any money at all, like rodents, they are loaded up with debt and managing debt.
How pathetic is this? and why does one think this is like this? Like rodents people will take everything they can get no matter the cost (in debt)
Except for taxpayer bailouts that started during covid and continue today, taking others peoples money to pay and bail out foolish college borrowing. Guess those needing the bailout for college didnt listen to Dave.

View attachment 225674

I pay my CC bills. I save. I've paid most of my $250K school debt and the only reason it's not entirely gone is because it's at 0.62%. As CKN said what does this have to do with me? People who don't pay their bills or save or can't pay their school loans aren't MY problem. Why is anyone suggesting how I choose to live my life is wrong because other people can't be responsible when I can?

My point again is if I called Dave right now and told him my situation he'd shame me for being dumb. I'm not dumb, I'm just not his clueless twit of a listener. He SELLS absolutism to make himself sound authoritative and people gobble it up. I'm convinced between belief in the almighty and our apparent love of authoritative figures most of society suffers from daddy issues and really just wants to believe someone or somethings is looking out for them because the world is such a scary place. I don't need my handheld...I'm not asking for my hand to be held.

 

[billt460]

Giving people credit who can't manage it is like giving an alcoholic booze. They rarely just hurt themselves. There is always collateral damage that someone else has to pay for.

These insane student loans are a perfect example. You paid yours off, (or will). But there are going to be thousands who won't. And the taxpayers are going to suffer the consequences. You mark my words.

And all of these credit spending incentives are going to amount to much the same. The banks aren't going to pay. It will be pushed off on to the consumer.

 

[CKN]

The whole pride thing works both ways. People are "proud" to rant about the "free money" they get back. But are somewhat embarrassed to admit how much they had to part with to get it. As always, it doesn't take any brains to spend money.

Again-it doesn't matter how much I spent-because I was spending it anyways. I really don't see the leap in your logic. It's not like I said to myself-"I'm going to go out and spend xxxx amount of dollars to get xxxxx back", I was spending it anyways. (I have now repeated that statement to you three times). This where you and "that guy on the radio" logic is flawed.
I have zero reason to be embarrassed I got back $1,300.00 from Costco because of mostly travel booking rebates and pay ALL MY CREDIT CARDS off each and every month.
It takes brains BTW-to have that much money to spend.

 

[billt460]

It takes brains BTW-to have that much money to spend.

So show all of us how smart you are....... For the third time, how much is, "that much"?