CRANK but NO START

[SumpChump]

So it's running now guys unbelievable it seems that it was flooded. Is it possible that a modern fuel injected 2013 vehicle can flood? The only thing I can think of is that the car was driven on Saturday then parked in the driveway for 4 hours at 20F. Then. sat. evening after a while perhaps four hours she went out moved to the vehicle into the garage. Thus starting it for perhaps 60 seconds at rich cold idle to pull it in the garage. Then no start this morn. Then bitog saves the day with the suggestion to clear the culinders by depressing the accel.

So now it is running. I cringe to shut her down.

Big question is.. how did a modern car FLOOD?

 

[supton]

Any chance that it cranked "fast" while doing this? Any chance it had been driven, in the cold, for all of 30 seconds? I wonder if it was that car wash syndrome: a cold start, with lots of gas in the engine, not allowed to warm up. Then on the next start compression is lost, as the rings aren't sealing.

I forgot all about doing this, our 2011 Camry did this, once. Was a bit of a shocker. Forget how I got it running, probably just cranked it good and long, maybe with the pedal down, dunno. I wonder if that is the case of the slight oil consumption I have? Too late now.

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Reading your last post, it sounds just like this.

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Just take it for a spin, and shut 'er down. Don't do any more 30 second run times, and you should be able to avoid this happening again.

 

[SpecM]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Then. sat. evening after a while perhaps four hours she went out moved to the vehicle into the garage

Big question is.. how did a modern car FLOOD?


BINGO

yes, even modern car will flood if started and shut off cold. I see it all the time.

Go drive the car and get it warm. Now.

 

[Warstud]

Your fuel pump may be starting to go out.

 

[SpecM]

Originally Posted By: Warstud
Your fuel pump may be starting to go out.


Extremely rare on a newer Toyota

Likewise with the CPS

 

[CT8]

Fuse or relay would be a good place to starting point. The more plumbing there is the easier it is to clog up the pipes.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: supton

Just take it for a spin, and shut 'er down. Don't do any more 30 second run times, and you should be able to avoid this happening again.


I cam confirm that she ran it probably for all of 60 seconds to pull it in garage after 4 hour outdoor cold soak. So I doubt it even came off high idle. Despite me telling her to let it idle down. However I'm sure it has beem done before And didnt flood.

So I ran it for 20min at idle, then 30 min highway, then 10min idle. The garaged it.

Fingers crossed for the morning.

I just had the TGMO changed 1k miles ago. I wonder if I should change it our for cause of fuel dilution? I bet we took some life out of that starter and the rings. I didnt crank long each time but there were several attempts indeed, perhaps 3 by her and another 9 by me on the fresh battery till she started up again finally. None of mine for more than 3 seconds. Gosh my mind is running wild on that cold cranking done with no oil pressure.

 

[SpecM]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump


I just had the TGMO changed 1k miles ago. I wonder if I should change it our for cause of fuel dilution? I bet we took some life out of that starter and the rings. I didnt crank long each time but there were several attempts indeed, perhaps 3 by her and another 9 by me on the fresh battery till she started up again finally. None of mine for more than 3 seconds. Gosh my mind is running wild on that cold cranking done with no oil pressure.


The oil will ok since you drove it 30 minute, that will dry it fine. I wouldn't worry about the starter or the rings

Really, you had some oil presssure. Enough for the low load on the engine at the time.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: SpecM
I see a LOT of newer cars towed into my shop that get flooded / loaded with fuel, exp in cooler weather. Try clear-flooding with the throttle fully depressed. It can take 10-20 to clear.

Of course, a fully charged battery is needed

Try that


Eventually that worked! Thanks! It was not pleasant cranking and recranking and again. But eventually... pow.. rough start then smoothed out after a seconds. Think I have done anything bad to the plugs by soaking them with the flooding?

Then i idled it a while ran it around town hopping on the interstate a few times for a few miles back and forth between exits. Then right into the garage for the night, so she was hot or at least warm and should have been leaned out on the fuel side of the equation. Fingers crossed for in the morning. I'm going to get in the car and start it like normal. No gas pedal and only positive thoughts.

 

[The_Eric]

It'll be fine- if it's running fine now, then don't worry about plugs or oil or anything. Just drive it.

 

[dishdude]

This used to be common in the old TBI cars, I haven't heard of anyone having to hold the throttle to the floor to clear a flooded engine for 25 years.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Warstud
Spray some starting fluid into the throttle body and crank it. If it runs longer than it currently runs.... then it's a fuel issue.


Best 1st step right here

 

[SpecM]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Warstud
Spray some starting fluid into the throttle body and crank it. If it runs longer than it currently runs.... then it's a fuel issue.


Best 1st step right here


that would not have been a best 1st step. that would have only exacerbated his fuel issue

 

[KrisZ]

From the description I suspect a leaky injector or multiple injectors. Our vehicles are routinely being moved around when cold, since we only have a single car driveway and garage. My cars never flooded despite sitting in much colder weather at times.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
From the description I suspect a leaky injector or multiple injectors. Our vehicles are routinely being moved around when cold, since we only have a single car driveway and garage. My cars never flooded despite sitting in much colder weather at times.


Yes, but how long do you run them for vehicle musical chairs? I bet it only takes a minute--well two given SumpChump's 60 second description--to get out of uber rich operation.

Wife did the same exact thing, darn near the same car. Our car is motoring along just fine two years later, which means 50kmiles has elapsed since then. No repairs.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
From the description I suspect a leaky injector or multiple injectors. Our vehicles are routinely being moved around when cold, since we only have a single car driveway and garage. My cars never flooded despite sitting in much colder weather at times.


Yes, but how long do you run them for vehicle musical chairs? I bet it only takes a minute--well two given SumpChump's 60 second description--to get out of uber rich operation.

Wife did the same exact thing, darn near the same car. Our car is motoring along just fine two years later, which means 50kmiles has elapsed since then. No repairs.


In our case, many times it's about 30 seconds because the car that has to leave the earliest would be parked on the street, until the second car arrives and is parked in the garage. Then the first car is moved from the street to the driveway.
When my wife first started working as a flight attendant, she was doing a lot of shifts where she would come home from 10PM to 1AM. I would park my car on the street around 4pm, so it would routinely sit for 6-8 hours in -10F or lower, get started for 30 seconds or so and sit for another 6 hours. I never had trouble starting it in the morning at -15F or -20F.

 

[supton]

I dunno then. My wife only did it once, forget how cold, but it wasn't -10F, more like +10F to +20F. And it did it to us. She moved the car about 20 feet total, so it bordered on perhaps less than 30 seconds.

Maybe Camry is prone to it, while your car wasn't?

I know my Toyota's do smell quite rich at cold start, so perhaps it's a vehicle design fault.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: supton
I dunno then. My wife only did it once, forget how cold, but it wasn't -10F, more like +10F to +20F. And it did it to us. She moved the car about 20 feet total, so it bordered on perhaps less than 30 seconds.

Maybe Camry is prone to it, while your car wasn't?

I know my Toyota's do smell quite rich at cold start, so perhaps it's a vehicle design fault.


Well folks.... the flooded (and then finally started after much angst) 2013 Camry about which this thread circles.... started like a champ this morning after being pulled into the garage hot last night. It was about 18F in the garage overnight. Car read "cold" on the temp scale when started so I assume this was a valid test. The battery is still reading 13.9-14.1 when car running. So I think the alternator is fine. In fact, after a charge, the four year old battery I replaced has tested out as good so I may keep that as a trickled backup.

I idled her 10min this morn after the perfect start and drove 15more min. at 35mph to work. She is parked at 8F in the wide open lot for an 8 hour cold soak while I work. Fingers crossed!

On a side note, my Toyotas, 2013 Corolla (destroyed by idiot driver), 2013 Camry 4c and 2008 xB do all smell quite rich at cold start. Must be a Toyota thing. Oil analysis on the newer two shows no fuel dilition problems though.

So unless I soon discover that I have a fuel pressure regulator problem or four leaky injectors at just 55k with top tier fuel.... I think it is just plain old possible to flood a Toyota. Too bad really because I bet she'll Do a 60 second car move ice cold again some time LOL.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: SpecM
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Warstud
Spray some starting fluid into the throttle body and crank it. If it runs longer than it currently runs.... then it's a fuel issue.


Best 1st step right here


that would not have been a best 1st step. that would have only exacerbated his fuel issue



I disagree. It's a quick sure fire way to figure out if it's a fuel pump issue or not. It doesn't start now...spray starting fluid and it starts and runs - easy test. Next verify fuel pressure and then you have your 1st step done. I am a GM engineer and 30+ year certified ASE mechanic. Used this test plenty of times.

 

[Lubener]

You need air, compression, fuel and spark for it to run. You need to check that. From your descriptions of what you did and checked, it doesn't sound like you have the ability to fix it. Have a mechanic look at it.