Crank, no start

[Russ]

'88 Suburban, 305 V8, 123,000 miles. Fuel pump went out last summer and was replaced. Fuel filter replaced at the same time. Shortly thereafter ignition coil went out. Replaced with an aftermarket unit. New cap, rotor, plugs and wires.
The problem is that the truck has been sitting in the parking lot since August. It was started twice in that time. Naturally, the battery went dead and was replaced back in December. Yesterday, the engine would barely turn over, so the battery was charged up at the parts store. Now the engine is cranking just fine, but it won't catch on. There's spark and fuel.
Is the problem simply with the stale gas that needs to be replaced, or should I be looking at spark strength, or anything else?
If the gas does need to be dumped (3/4 of a 25-gallon tank) what is the proper way to dispose of it? If not, can I just add some fresh gas and a healthy dose of FP and some starting fluid and just run the old stuff out?
Thanks.

 

[BlazerLT]

Where are you checking for spark?

 

[srivett]

If you decide to dump the gas somebody will be happy to use it in their car. The gas in my van is over a year old and not causing trouble. That's not to say your fuel isn't bad (it could have plugged a very fine carb passageway that works on vacuum vs. my fuel injection system which forces the fuel through).

Is the engine trying to start at all? Is it cranking too slowly? You need about 9.6 Volts from the battery during cranking to get the coils to work.

If you decide to use ether, which I advise against, don't wear flammable clothing or get your face too close. A John Deere ether bottle will fog the carb from nearly 6 feet away (the distance from somebody standing on the ground aiming at the air filters of a large excavator).

Steve

 

[Curious Kid]

Russ,

If you don't feel comfortible using ether, try wd-40 sprayed into the barrel of the carb. I found it worked in a pinch one cold fall day when I just couldn't get the mulching lawn mower to start, so I could bag the leaves for the garden.

Make sure that the spark plugs aren't fouled with fuel, for not only has it been cold (I can't remember you location), but you're cylinders haven't been lubricated for a while, so your compression may be down as well, at least prior to the cylinders potentially being flooded. If you find the spark plugs fuel fouled, spray them with a fast drying solvent like brake disc or electrical contact cleaner, let them dry...or simply change them out if you feel their time-in-service dictates. With the plugs still out, crank the engine over a few times with the choke off, and throttle held open (or you could try not touching the throttle as this would activate the fuel enrichment circuit which I believe is plunger actuated. Spray a little starter fluid of some kind either in each cylinder prior to installing each spark plug, or down the barrel of the carb, hop back in the vehicle and give it another try.

Good luck

 

[Alan]

What's the outside temp?
You could have ice in your gas lines.

Some starter fluid sprayed into the intake may help.

 

[MAJA]

I assume this truck has a throttle body fuel injector. Is it getting gas at the ejector? I would advise against "ether" strongly. If anything, pour a LITTLE fresh gas down the throttle body, and crank. If it tries to start, its a fuel problem.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

No rat's nest in the exhaust? You can smell gas in the exhaust while it's turning over right? and you feel some exhaust/air just due to turning over right?

 

[Russ]

No rat's nest that I'm aware of.
Can definetly smell the gas (but it's not quite "normal" smell).
And I don't know about feeling the exhaust/air due to turning over.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

You've mentioned a couple times about the smell of the gas, and the gas being "quicktrip".
1) have you tried putting a small amount of gas in the TB to see if it catches and then dies?
2) how much gas is in the tank, may want to add a few gallons of normal gas (that quicktrip gas is the stuff that you can keep in the vehicle for emergencies right? supposedly safe for storage in the vehicle..maybe you just need to kindof "stiffen the drink"
Any possibility someone has sabotaged the truck/fuel?

 

[kevm14]

Try cranking it with the gas floored and see what happens. Also try varying throttle positions. EFI is programmed similar to a carb, just for ease of use. Flooring the gas enables clear flood mode, which cranks at a very lean AFR (almost no fuel). Something at a 1/4 throttle or maybe 1/2 throttle will inject more fuel than with no throttle. Just mess around, if you haven't already.

Try the gas in the TBI trick.

 

[Schmoe]

Those TBI's can be a pain in the butt. One problem I had on my engine and was difficult to crank, was a loose distributor cap that let moisture in. It would still show spark, but not enough. New cap, rotor, plugs and wires solved that problem.

 

[jhnrckr]

You need to narrow down what is causing the problem. The board has zeroed in on Fuel. If it isn't fuel look at timing. If it isn't any of the above look at ignition spark including plugs wires, module and coil. If still nothing it is compression.

 

[Russ]

Thanks for the replies!

This truck has a TBI unit. Like I mentioned before, fuel pump and filter are basically brand-new (maybe have a couple of hundreds of miles on them). Same story with the plugs, wires, coil, dist. cap and rotor.
I'm checking for spark at the coil and at the plugs. It's present at both places, but I have no idea how strong it is (is there any way I can check for that?

)
Temp. is in the 50s during the day (when attempts to start the engine are made),freezing overnight.
The battery voltage dropped to as low as 9.1 during cranking. The unit's been manufactured in April '03, purchased in Dec. 04, and has just set there ever since. I figured a battery replacement was in order (still under warranty), but the parts store guy was adamant about simply recharging it. It does turn the engine over fairly quickly after the recharge, but I haven't checked the voltage drop. After the battery recharge, the engine acted like it was about to catch on, but not quite.
There's also a horrible smell coming from exhaust during cranking, which makes me think this could be a fuel-related issue (this is QuickTrip gasoline, I don't know if that makes any difference).
Thanks.

 

[Russ]

Couple more things.
It is getting gas at the injectors.
As far as purging old gas out of the cyllinders (it has to have some in there by know - there's been a good 40sec - 1 min. total cranking time), can I simply disconnect the fuel injectors and crank the engine, or should I go with pulling the plugs, etc?

 

[Russ]

Once again, thanks for the replies!
I think I may have narrowed it down. The voltage on the battery drops to 9.1 after a split second of cranking. This is after a quick 15-min charge at the store. (What a surprise - a two-year-old battery that hasn't seen a drain-recharge cycle in its entire existence

). Of course, according to the counter guy at the parts store, the thing is rated at 660 CCA, and that's "more than plenty to turn over a small block V-8", never mind the fact, that it can't hold a charge.
I'm still feeling iffy about the fuel. I was thinking of draining about 5 gal, and replacing it with some fresh gas with about 5 oz. of FP (that would make the ratio of 5 oz to roughly 19 gal of fuel).
Moisture under the distributor cap is always a possibility too, but I think the cap was on tight enough... Who knows...
Anyhow, I'm working all weekend, Tuesday I'll try to exchange the battery, and go from there.
Once, again, thanks!

 

[theguru]

I wouldn't think a 15 min charge would be enough unless the vehicle was going to start straight away. If you don't have charger, probably a neighbour or friend does. Or buy a small one ($10-) and leave the battery on overnight to charge. An alternateive is to put it in another vehicle and charge it up that way. A short drive is not enough however.

Letting a lead/ acid battery discharge is really bad for them. Also they tend to sulfate which can't feasibly be fixed. If possible charge at least once per month. The fast charges the garages are also not the best as they can damage the battery if used improperly. The plates can buckle from the high current and heat.

Another solution is to jumper the battery with another vehicle and try starting that way. At least it will prove if it is the battery.

 

[srivett]

I would try boosting it if the battery voltage goes down to 9.1 after cranking. It should recover shortly after cranking if it is charged or in good shape.

There are newer battery chargers with a built in desulphating program. They detect this problem and spike the voltage once in a while. Canadian Tires' good automatic charges do this.

Steve

 

[Russ]

Well, the new battery trick did not work

Neither did starter fluid in the throttle body.
Checking the plugs is the next planned step. Is there a possibility that they may be fouled with oil?(This engine did do the "blue-puff-of-smoke-on-start-up" number for a while last year; would it be possible for enough oil to seep into the combustion chamber over the last few months the vehicle's been sitting there? Then again , where would "enough" oil come from? Once the oil is drained from the top end, some will seep past the valve seals in the process, and then there will be no more, it's not like there's a steady supply of oil to leak into the CC, right?

)
Another thing. Is the ignition coil grounded to the engine? Because this one is sitting on top of the valve cover right now, sort of hanging by the wires (this is girlfriend's vehicle that her friend's husband worked on before me, and that's the way he left things). Do I just need to find the original bracket and bolt the coil back on the intake manifold?