CR: Most Reliable Makes of 2010

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Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Old link on why you should not accept CR survey results with blind faith.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Something I heard but haven't confirmed with this years rating is that the X5 diesel was noted as having fuel issues and given a "least reliable" rating. Well there are no fuel issues with the M57 diesel. The only fuel issues are with the N54 and may the N55 (both are gasoline).




Surveys are always going to have issues. The only way that you're going to get a truly accurate picture is by examining the manufacturers' warranty claims records.

I couldn't get past the first paragraph of your link. I love this bit... "If most people reported on two cars (because most families have two or more cars), that would put the response rate at a mere 6%. Even assuming one car per family - a highly dubious assumption - we have a taudry 12% response rate."

Just how does the number of vehicles (based on their insight) change the response rate?

ie;
1 x 480,000 = 480,000
1 x 4,000,000 = 4,000,000

480,000 = 12% of 4,000,000

2 x 480,000 = 960,000
2 x 4,000,000 = 8,000,000

960,000 = 12% of 8,000,000
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Typical CR drivel.

Not worth the paper it's printed on.


Originally Posted By: mikered30
Yaris is toyota's most reliable vehicle? That does not bode well for toyota.


Dang! Steve and I in total agreement.

Now, as for the Yaris, let's remember that this happens also to be Toyota's most bare-bones, simple model. THE most ultra reliable cars are most likely to be the ones made by credible makers, and which have the fewest frills. Therefore, it's no surprise that the Yaris is showing up as the most reliable Toyota -- there's much less on it to malfunction than there is on virtually all of their other models. I suspect that the new Chevy Cruze will play out similarly, though I do remain concerned about the fact that most of them are going to be coming with turbocharged engines.
 
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I love how when something doesn't agree with a person's preconcieved notions, it's complete garbage. But, when they match up, it's a shining endorsement of their beliefs. Funny that, innit?
True that!

And the survey doesn't mean that the Yaris is necessarily Toyota's most reliable vehicle. It means that in this survey sample, those answering the survey reported the least issues with their Yaris vehicles. Just as it doesn't necessarily mean that the the 135i is BMW's least reliable vehicle. Just that more folks responding to the survey reported more issues than the other BMW vehicles. The same goes for the total rating of makes compared to others from top to bottom.

Survey research which CR uses has it's positives and negatives. It relies on the opinions/feelings of folks answering the survey and giving honest answers. IMO, when used as a trending instrument it can provide general picture of owners opinions of/satisfaction with, their vehicle. Not infallible by any means.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Old link on why you should not accept CR survey results with blind faith.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html




You shouldn't accept anything on blind faith...starting with that "article", which is, in a word, ridiculous.

Evaluate the methodology for yourself and determine as to whether or not it's relevant. I think it is, and I have a pretty good working knowledge of both statistics and survey methods. It's far from perfect, but no survey is. They do back-end analysis to validate the results, and the data are what they are.

CR's results seem to trend in line with the other independent data out there as well (Trudelta and Identifix). It doesn't trend well with some guy who says "I have a Dodge Omni with 729K miles and it rulz!!". Personally, I really don't care.

I will say I'm continually amazed at what an emotional topic this becomes for people. If you don't believe the survey has value, don't pay attention to it.
 
I think CR does have value. The surveys are based on a big enough sampling to have some merit. I don't consider CR the final word on these matters, but I consider what they write before I buy.
 
We've been thru this before..many times.

Consumer Report's auto data can only be taken with a grain of salt. Small sample sizes combined with NON-VERIFIED subscriber survey data = worthless information to me. Anybody can make up that they own such and such car and lie.

FACT: GM asked it's employees this year to subscribe (paying for it) to CR so they could take the surveys and improve GM's score. Why? BECAUSE TOYOTA ALREADY PROVIDES CR TO IT'S EMPLOYEES AND HAVE FOR YEARS!
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You may as well just stop people in the street and question them. You'll probably get more reliable and accurate information.


That is generally what I do...I also ask the Leos in law enforcement [as well as taxi drivers] how their cars hold up.

I always let the Leos test the new vehicles out first.
 
Originally Posted By: DT466E_bus
Ya the 6cyl Escape is a better choice.

Have the 01 6-cyl for the wife and at 109k, other than routine maintenance and stuff, we replaced the fuel pump.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Anybody can make up that they own such and such car and lie.

Not true. A friend of mine bought a Subaru Legacy, and he received a survey from CR asking about that car. They look at new car purchases, and send the surveys to actual owners. It's not a random mass mailing.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD

CR's results seem to trend in line with the other independent data out there as well (Trudelta and Identifix). It doesn't trend well with some guy who says "I have a Dodge Omni with 729K miles and it rulz!!". Personally, I really don't care.

I will say I'm continually amazed at what an emotional topic this becomes for people. If you don't believe the survey has value, don't pay attention to it.


I use MSN Autos most often for reliability ratings, which is based on Identifix, and when I've compared to CR there's never been a huge difference. It is in fact an emotional issue for some people, which might possibly explain the shortcomings of that article, but like you say don't pay attention if you feel it has no value
 
Originally Posted By: mikered30
Yaris is toyota's most reliable vehicle? That does not bode well for toyota.
The 2008 sedan and 2010 3 door haven't been all that reliable for us . Don't get us wrong , we like the cars for the gas mileage and other reasons , but they've been a bit troublesome . When we get the survey in the mail from C.R. these vehicles won't be getting good ratings . Luck of the draw .
 
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Funny, if you read the article, the MINI Convert scored much worse than the regular model. I wonder if it's just that convert owners are whiners...?
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I don't see Hundai.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
....AND, you're not seeing the full listing for makes in between the top and bottom. ~7 brands in between the top/bottom brand.

So, 11-17 from the top (best) are: Hyundai, Mazda, Kia, Nissan, Lincoln, Volkswagen and Chevy.....
 
Originally Posted By: whip

Not true. A friend of mine bought a Subaru Legacy, and he received a survey from CR asking about that car. They look at new car purchases, and send the surveys to actual owners. It's not a random mass mailing.


Not true at all. CR mails out the surveys to subscribers of the magazine and the internet feed. They DO NOT follow or mail out according to registration at all. The surveys are sent to subscribers and then the subscriber reports what vehicles they own. There is no verification of that ownership anywhere in the system. I have never seen anywhere where CR states that they follow car registrations by state or that they mail out to non subscribers from state registration lists. CR never says anywhere that they even bother to compare the returned reports to verify ownership against state records...could you provide a link to where they state they do?

Here is what CR themselves say on the matter....doesn't quite line up with your friends version...

"Our data are based on an annual survey of subscribers to Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org and are not derived from road tests. A model needs at least 100 responses per model year for us to score it."
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Anybody can make up that they own such and such car and lie.

Not true. A friend of mine bought a Subaru Legacy, and he received a survey from CR asking about that car. They look at new car purchases, and send the surveys to actual owners. It's not a random mass mailing.



You are wrong. CR simply sends a GENERIC survey to all SUBSCRIBERS and you pencil in your car make/model. It also covers home appliances and everything else you can think of. I get the same survey every year. Your friend may have gotten a survey from the Subaru or a dealership, but CR does not do this.
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: whip

Not true. A friend of mine bought a Subaru Legacy, and he received a survey from CR asking about that car. They look at new car purchases, and send the surveys to actual owners. It's not a random mass mailing.


Not true at all. CR mails out the surveys to subscribers of the magazine and the internet feed. They DO NOT follow or mail out according to registration at all. The surveys are sent to subscribers and then the subscriber reports what vehicles they own. There is no verification of that ownership anywhere in the system. I have never seen anywhere where CR states that they follow car registrations by state or that they mail out to non subscribers from state registration lists. CR never says anywhere that they even bother to compare the returned reports to verify ownership against state records...could you provide a link to where they state they do?

Here is what CR themselves say on the matter....doesn't quite line up with your friends version...

"Our data are based on an annual survey of subscribers to Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org and are not derived from road tests. A model needs at least 100 responses per model year for us to score it."






Thanks! You did a better job clarifying this one!
 
Never received anything in the mail, but did receive an email requesting participation in the survey via an online link to the survey. Asks one to enter the vehicles owned and answer the survey for each make/model. It is fairly extensive and takes some time to answer the questions. Either way, afaik it is of CR subscribers only.
Originally Posted By: JOD
I will say I'm continually amazed at what an emotional topic this becomes for people. If you don't believe the survey has value, don't pay attention to it.
Agreed.
 
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