Country of Origin... Does it matter ???

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Here's an interesting question: Is a product made in the US by a company based in Japan a Japanese product or a US product? Does the fact that the profits go overseas matter?

Taking it down a level: Is the fact that the parts are made in the US - but maybe made by companies based in Japan - matter?


Profits go overseas? Only if it is a private company. If a private company, then I'm not too concerned about the executive level of a company but rather the direct labor which would be wrapped up in the point of mfg.

 

[rjundi]

My personal experience has been USA made tires I have had more problems with than foreign made tires.

This includes US made Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, Remington(garbage) over the last 20 years.

I have had no problems with tires produced in Japan(Bridgestone), Finland(Nokian), Brazil(Continental/Pirelli), and France(Michelin).

That all being said I do not avoid any country of manufacture for branded tires however when it comes to non-branded or store brand tires I would avoid Made in China as there is no tire maker who's reputation is on the line. The likely case is lowest bidder....

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
......I would think that you as "Our Industry Insider" may have been able to better reply to this thread with some quality insight as to the tires made offshore. I hope you still will.........


...........I'll comment on quality next Sunday after I get a bunch of responses. I am really curious about how folks feel about this issue........


As promised:

First, there weren't many responses, but I do find it funny that pretty much everyone commented about "quality" by naming properties that are DESIGN related - including the post about Foreign Tire Sales (and their problem with Chinese tires!) I hope I don't have to explain why properties related to a tire's design are NOT affected by where it is made!

So I think the concensus is that it DOES matter if a foreign company manufactures in the US - a [censored] design is a [censored] design!

And the reverse also ought to be true: It doesn't matter where the tire is made - it matters who designed it! (At least as far as "quality" is concerned.)

 

[UNC036]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
And the reverse also ought to be true: It doesn't matter where the tire is made - it matters who designed it! (At least as far as "quality" is concerned.)


NOT...

I think that, your well if this applies, then this should surely apply too is WRONG.

Plain and Simple... Would you buy a Chinese made tire for your loved ones?

I would not.

Jim

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer


As promised:

First, there weren't many responses, but I do find it funny that pretty much everyone commented about "quality" by naming properties that are DESIGN related - including the post about Foreign Tire Sales (and their problem with Chinese tires!) I hope I don't have to explain why properties related to a tire's design are NOT affected by where it is made!

So I think the concensus is that it DOES matter if a foreign company manufactures in the US - a [censored] design is a [censored] design!

And the reverse also ought to be true: It doesn't matter where the tire is made - it matters who designed it! (At least as far as "quality" is concerned.)


But the labor costs are the reason to offshore. Im not talking about hang keng or some other real chinese brand tires... Im talking as much about Pirelli or any other "major" manufacturer.

For example, I'm looking at 195/70r-14. The pirelli p4 is priced nearly the same as the Michelin harmony and Hydroedge. The pirelli is made in Korea/china, the michelin in the USA. The Cooper cs4 and Yokohama avid are both made in the US. They are priced within a few dollars of the Kumho tires made in china.

I find it a stretch if anyone is going to claim that the Kumho or the pirelli bring much more value to the table for the dollar than the domestic manufactured tire. If so, where? Sometimes the claim is made that to make x widget with the same quality here, it would cost much more money. I just don't see it in this case. Offshoring is a pure profit play, and I'd rather give my money to buy products that employ people here. Now, all these tires that Ive mentioned are good designs. So why the pricing discrepancy, and why not the major cost advantage for those made offshore???

If there was some great value proposition, then I might consider it, but I've not seen it yet...

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
NOT...
I think that, your well if this applies, then this should surely apply too is WRONG.
Plain and Simple... Would you buy a Chinese made tire for your loved ones?
I would not.
Jim


You only asked part of the question I was adddressing.

Would you buy a Michelin branded tire made in China? That's a tougher question, isn't it? - and, of course, that was the point I was trying to make.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
NOT...
I think that, your well if this applies, then this should surely apply too is WRONG.
Plain and Simple... Would you buy a Chinese made tire for your loved ones?
I would not.
Jim


You only asked part of the question I was adddressing.

Would you buy a Michelin branded tire made in China? That's a tougher question, isn't it? - and, of course, that was the point I was trying to make.


I would not, unless it was priced at the level of the Kumho. That's their real cost for the most part, isnt it?

 

[Nick R]

Turns out the Firestone tires on mine and my dads Cruze are Made in USA, the Hankooks on the nox are made in China.

 

[Ken2]

The Chinese can make any quality of product that they are watched making. If the buyer doesn't have inspectors in the plant, be very careful, as shown in the BW article.

I want to buy North American, but there are no North American makers of trailer tires or motorcycle tires. Continential (German) has some motorcycle tires made in Korea which are getting a poor reputation for vibration. Shinko (Japanese) has some motorcycle tires made in Korea that are cheap with a very good reputation. Bridgestone, Michelin, Avon, Dunlop, Pirelli/Metzeler, small European outfits and cheapo Japanese outfits are in the motorcycle market.

For my little utility trailer I just bought some 12" Chinese Kumho car tires which I hope will be better than Chinese ST trailer grenades...er, tires.

No, trailers have no toe-in. Many trailer axles are highly cambered when unloaded so they run straight with no camber when loaded. Yes, just about every trailer part is as light duty as the manufacturer can usually get away with. Upgrading trailer tires is always smart. If 16" tires and wheels can be fitted, LT235/85R16-E highway rib tires are very good (Michelin XPS Rib tires are the pick of the litter).

 

[UNC036]

Capri Racer,
You said:

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer

So I think the concensus is that it DOES matter if a foreign company manufactures in the US - a [censored] design is a [censored] design!

And the reverse also ought to be true: It doesn't matter where the tire is made - it matters who designed it! (At least as far as "quality" is concerned.)


And I disagree with the above highlighted text, and my response still stands:

Originally Posted By: AstroTurf

NOT...

I think that, your well if this applies, then this should surely apply too is WRONG.

Plain and Simple... Would you buy a Chinese made tire for your loved ones?

I would not.

Jim



Now for my straight question to you...

Would you allow your loved ones to purchase Chinese Tires without your Insider Knowledge and Examination of the tire first?

I think not.

That's My Opinion of Course.

Jim

 

[FZ1]

All that matters is that the tire has a good warranty and you get free lifetime balance and rotations. BTW,Goodyear is an American company.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Now for my straight question to you...

Would you allow your loved ones to purchase Chinese Tires without your Insider Knowledge and Examination of the tire first?

I think not.

That's My Opinion of Course.

Jim


Again, I think you missed my point. Here, allow me to illustrate how your question sounds within the context of my post:

Would you buy tires made in China, but branded with a name brand, like Michelin?

- OR -

Would you buy tires designed by a Chinese company (with a Chinese brand name, of course), but made in Thailand? (or Viet Nam or Malaysia or, of course, China?)

See how those questions are different? It's not clear which question you are asking. It ought to be obvious that this makes a difference to me - but apparently not to you.

 

[UNC036]

Capri Racer,

I thank you for spending your time on me.

You are a very knowledgeable man, and I can learn a lot from you.

Let me just sit back down and learn. I am sorry I cannot always express my thoughts. Perhaps one day. Until then...

I thank you for being here, and spending your time.

Jim

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Now for my straight question to you...

Would you allow your loved ones to purchase Chinese Tires without your Insider Knowledge and Examination of the tire first?

I think not.

That's My Opinion of Course.

Jim


Again, I think you missed my point. Here, allow me to illustrate how your question sounds within the context of my post:

Would you buy tires made in China, but branded with a name brand, like Michelin?

- OR -

Would you buy tires designed by a Chinese company (with a Chinese brand name, of course), but made in Thailand? (or Viet Nam or Malaysia or, of course, China?)

See how those questions are different? It's not clear which question you are asking. It ought to be obvious that this makes a difference to me - but apparently not to you.


Id buy neither. The Name brand tires made in China do NOT have the labor savings passed along to me, and the Chinese company branded tires are not trustworthy to me.

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Id buy neither. The Name brand tires made in China do NOT have the labor savings passed along to me, and the Chinese company branded tires are not trustworthy to me.


Good point, however most of the time the one who does not pass the labor saving is the dealer/distributor and not the manufacturer, similar like the car itself. That is exactly not easy to justify the purchase just based on the made in xxx label with the complex trade and regulation established nowadays

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Id buy neither. The Name brand tires made in China do NOT have the labor savings passed along to me, and the Chinese company branded tires are not trustworthy to me.


Good point, however most of the time the one who does not pass the labor saving is the dealer/distributor and not the manufacturer, similar like the car itself. That is exactly not easy to justify the purchase just based on the made in xxx label with the complex trade and regulation established nowadays


But with the Internet there tends to be enough pricing transparency that if the retailer was playing games, there would be a disparity. My examples from my current tire-buying exercise are indicative... What better engineering or quality or value do I get from a Chinese pirelli vs a similarly priced, domestic made Michelin?

 

[Hokiefyd]

In some cases with Michelin, it's not even domestically-sourced. The mucho expensive (and out of my consideration because so) Latitude Tour in the size that fits my CR-V (225/65R17) is made in either China or France according to Tire Rack's database. So why would I be paying around $200/tire for one made in China? For less money, I can find one with similar performance made by American or Canadian labor.

I'd much rather that.

 

[PandaBear]

Quality has a lot to do with the manufacturer and brand as well as country of origin.

Just came back from a business trip in China. The manufacturer I visited has a tendency to lay off people and hire fresh employees for simple manual labor every 18 months to avoid making them permanent and being forced to pay higher benefit cost. The burden to keep training level and quality high ends up on the shoulders of the higher paid engineers, whose expertise and experiences depends on the US/Japan sent "experts" from oversea. If the brand is not rigid in quality, the whole house of cards would fall. If the foreign employes sent there do a good job, the products' quality would be equal to the ones made in US/Japan.

I'll post a write up on how it works based on what I see later.

 

[Sunnyinhollister]

Originally Posted By: Noey
It's not correct to say "Country of origin" doesn't matter, and it's also incorrect to assume that it's the manufacturer who assures QC when the manufacturing is done in a third world country.

Aside from drywall issues, the melamine poisonings of infant formula and dog food, and the general lack of regard for human life in general (see: Gender specific abortion, 'one child' policy, etc.), the Chinese have also decided as a cost cutting measure to delete the gum wall layer in tires a while back, causing tread separation and death.

It's doubtful that the manufacturers approved this measure, and it's never happened from manufacturers in other countries. So, yes, I believe that 'Country of origin' is important, and especially with things that could result in death if they fail.

Until the Chinese recognize that the rest of us do not share their lack of regard for life, I will always look at 'Country of origin" before to determining if I place my safety and trust (and money) with them.


Let's not forget the 81 people that died in the US from chinese made heparin that for some reason was not deemed news worthy. However a presumed stuck pedal in a Toyota is all over the national media. I will not use Chinese made tires on my vehicles when my family's life depends on those tires. What is saving a couple buck over 40,000+ miles compared to the life of a loved one?

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Id buy neither. The Name brand tires made in China do NOT have the labor savings passed along to me, and the Chinese company branded tires are not trustworthy to me.


Good point, however most of the time the one who does not pass the labor saving is the dealer/distributor and not the manufacturer, similar like the car itself. That is exactly not easy to justify the purchase just based on the made in xxx label with the complex trade and regulation established nowadays


But with the Internet there tends to be enough pricing transparency that if the retailer was playing games, there would be a disparity. My examples from my current tire-buying exercise are indicative... What better engineering or quality or value do I get from a Chinese pirelli vs a similarly priced, domestic made Michelin?


It depends on the company strategy and standard they want to implement, only several insiders will know exactly the difference. Do you think people will not buy iDevices, Canon camera that are made in China ? They still do.
Interestingly some of local made tyres in Asian countries are more expensive than the one sold in US, due to manufacturer cost price is very low, and most of the cost are set by the country distributor markup and country specific import tariff barrier.