Conventional Gone

Messages
125
Location
Virginia
Sounds like it might be necessary to shop around and scarf up all the conventional mineral motor oil that's still on store shelves, where you can find it. I personally haven't seen any in a while, but then again, I don't specifically look for it for my own use.

A quick search pulled up a few makers still offering "conventional" motor oil, such as Mag-1, Valvoline and Phillips 66 (although these may have migrated into blends by now). One vendor that kept popping up as a source was Grainger -- not sure if there's one near the OP, but it might be worth looking into. ACE Hardware and Tractor Supply are other names that come to mind that might have a stock of conventional aimed at users of lawn equipment -- Briggs & Stratton HD 30 might just work for the OP's need.

Good luck with the hunt! (y)
 
Messages
362
Location
BC Canada
I always tell people do what they prefer. I’m not one to like advancements especially to do with cars. Like the reason most of my cars are older is because they have real keys and run better and aren’t full of electronics like this modern stuff that I’m not a fan of. Same with synthetic oil I have cleaned my older engines just fine with conventional so I don’t feel there is a need for synthetic.


Please explain to us, your definition of 'runs better'.

EFI and electronic ignition, are so much nicer than carbs and points. Modern vehicles and motorcycles run better than old stuff ever did. Meanwhile you were just posting about how your vehicles hemorrhage oil, yet in my yard currently are many vehicles, not all ours, but employees and customers as well, yet not 1 is leaking oil. I don't need to let them warm up either to avoid stalling, or fiddle with a choke knob. Even my relatively old car, being a 2008, I start it, put on my seat belt, so it has had 15 seconds to get the oil circulated throughout the engine, push the clutch in, put it into 1st, release the parking brake lever, and drive away. It doesn't even stumble. I then drive it slow and gentle down the road to the 1st stop sign, that is about a 2 minute drive at 50 kms/hr, by then i feel it has had sufficient warm up time, so i push it a bit harder, driving around 70 kms/hr now, in 3 more minutes I reach the hwy, and from there drive it normally, accelerating up to the speed of the traffic flow, and not once was I concerned with stumbles, stalls, or oil leaking. Give me a modern engine any time, thank you very much.
 
Messages
7,090
Location
Roanoke Virginia
Please explain to us, your definition of 'runs better'.

EFI and electronic ignition, are so much nicer than carbs and points. Modern vehicles and motorcycles run better than old stuff ever did. Meanwhile you were just posting about how your vehicles hemorrhage oil, yet in my yard currently are many vehicles, not all ours, but employees and customers as well, yet not 1 is leaking oil. I don't need to let them warm up either to avoid stalling, or fiddle with a choke knob. Even my relatively old car, being a 2008, I start it, put on my seat belt, so it has had 15 seconds to get the oil circulated throughout the engine, push the clutch in, put it into 1st, release the parking brake lever, and drive away. It doesn't even stumble. I then drive it slow and gentle down the road to the 1st stop sign, that is about a 2 minute drive at 50 kms/hr, by then i feel it has had sufficient warm up time, so i push it a bit harder, driving around 70 kms/hr now, in 3 more minutes I reach the hwy, and from there drive it normally, accelerating up to the speed of the traffic flow, and not once was I concerned with stumbles, stalls, or oil leaking. Give me a modern engine any time, thank you very much.
What I meant by runs better is they don’t have all this emissions stuff on them so they aren’t bogged down like the modern stuff is. I mean like modern modern like last few years our 2008 Ford runs great. I agree with you 100% on the points I can’t stand points. I don’t mind carburetors because I’m familiar with them cause I have rebuilt a few and learned lots about them. Also easier to get started up when they have been sitting at least based on what I’ve seen. Fuel injection is nice too especially EFI, mechanical fuel injection is iffy very iffy I don’t like it at all.
 
Messages
362
Location
BC Canada
Maybe in the 1980s emissions 'bogged' an engine down. In the year 2021, they have it figured out, and it doesn't apply. Those so called muscle cars that people considered fast in the 60s and 70s, would be embarrassed quickly on the drag strip by a modern sports car. These engines are not 'bogged' down by emissions. You can pick the old car of your choice, and I will borrow my Uncles, bosses, or cousins car, lets make a side by side pass down the track, and see which is ' bogged down '. I drove home 2 days ago from Vancouver in a modern day luxury convertible, and on the hills with passing lanes, I kept it in the left lane, didn't even floor it, and zipped up the steep grades passing anyone I chose to. Sorry Blake, I disagree with you on this, and have no desire to own old bikes or cars. My dad when i was a kid, owned a carburetored bike, complete with choke lever. He bought it brand new, it always ran poorly, had to be thoroughly warmed up or stumbled and stalled, needed frequent tinkering, burned a lot of oil for some reason, and was just overall a poor design. Within 2 years he sold it, and swore off any bikes that didn't come with EFI.
 
Messages
801
Location
GA
My first assumption would be a simple shortage of conventional oil. Low capacity from covid shutdowns, logistics and raw material issues may have forced producers to use what little capacity they had to make synthetic.

Although like others I see no need for conventional anymore. I mean if an older vehicle leaks with synthetic, go one grade thicker or HM.
 
Messages
801
Location
GA
Maybe in the 1980s emissions 'bogged' an engine down. In the year 2021, they have it figured out, and it doesn't apply. Those so called muscle cars that people considered fast in the 60s and 70s, would be embarrassed quickly on the drag strip by a modern sports car. These engines are not 'bogged' down by emissions. You can pick the old car of your choice, and I will borrow my Uncles, bosses, or cousins car, lets make a side by side pass down the track, and see which is ' bogged down '. I drove home 2 days ago from Vancouver in a modern day luxury convertible, and on the hills with passing lanes, I kept it in the left lane, didn't even floor it, and zipped up the steep grades passing anyone I chose to. Sorry Blake, I disagree with you on this, and have no desire to own old bikes or cars. My dad when i was a kid, owned a carburetored bike, complete with choke lever. He bought it brand new, it always ran poorly, had to be thoroughly warmed up or stumbled and stalled, needed frequent tinkering, burned a lot of oil for some reason, and was just overall a poor design. Within 2 years he sold it, and swore off any bikes that didn't come with EFI.
I remember when FI started becoming common. Me and a buddy drove a Nissan Altima or something... and we were all "wow this thing has a turbo or something..." Nah, it was just a basic fuel injected 4 cylinder but we were used to our slower carb'd vehicles. :LOL:
 
Messages
17,207
Location
...
Maybe in the 1980s emissions 'bogged' an engine down. In the year 2021, they have it figured out, and it doesn't apply. Those so called muscle cars that people considered fast in the 60s and 70s, would be embarrassed quickly on the drag strip by a modern sports car. These engines are not 'bogged' down by emissions. You can pick the old car of your choice, and I will borrow my Uncles, bosses, or cousins car, lets make a side by side pass down the track, and see which is ' bogged down '. I drove home 2 days ago from Vancouver in a modern day luxury convertible, and on the hills with passing lanes, I kept it in the left lane, didn't even floor it, and zipped up the steep grades passing anyone I chose to. Sorry Blake, I disagree with you on this, and have no desire to own old bikes or cars. My dad when i was a kid, owned a carburetored bike, complete with choke lever. He bought it brand new, it always ran poorly, had to be thoroughly warmed up or stumbled and stalled, needed frequent tinkering, burned a lot of oil for some reason, and was just overall a poor design. Within 2 years he sold it, and swore off any bikes that didn't come with EFI.


I agree. EFI has been the best thing since sliced bread. I’m a older person and I don’t miss any of that older stuff.

It’s the reality. Computers control everything a modern car nowadays. In fact, a great video was posted in another thread about Toyota’s new 2.5 engine and how the computer controls functions like coolant and oil lubrication to get greater efficiency all around.
 
Messages
7,090
Location
Roanoke Virginia
Maybe in the 1980s emissions 'bogged' an engine down. In the year 2021, they have it figured out, and it doesn't apply. Those so called muscle cars that people considered fast in the 60s and 70s, would be embarrassed quickly on the drag strip by a modern sports car. These engines are not 'bogged' down by emissions. You can pick the old car of your choice, and I will borrow my Uncles, bosses, or cousins car, lets make a side by side pass down the track, and see which is ' bogged down '. I drove home 2 days ago from Vancouver in a modern day luxury convertible, and on the hills with passing lanes, I kept it in the left lane, didn't even floor it, and zipped up the steep grades passing anyone I chose to. Sorry Blake, I disagree with you on this, and have no desire to own old bikes or cars. My dad when i was a kid, owned a carburetored bike, complete with choke lever. He bought it brand new, it always ran poorly, had to be thoroughly warmed up or stumbled and stalled, needed frequent tinkering, burned a lot of oil for some reason, and was just overall a poor design. Within 2 years he sold it, and swore off any bikes that didn't come with EFI.
I don’t know, most of the modern stuff seems very underpowered for what it is like the modern V8 engines I’ve seen. It’s fine we disagree, I will always be a fan of old stuff. That’s just what I think. I have heard from many it’s the emissions. I do know the modern Mustang are pretty fast but they just don’t have that V8 power or sound like they did in the old days. When fuel injection first came out I heard it was a total disaster because they hadn’t worked the bugs out and everyone hated it. Mechanical Fuel Injection was worse. I know the fuel injection when it first came out on the beetles like I like was a total disaster too I’ve had to work on some of the injected ones. Of course that’s mechanical like my dads 1977 Alfa Romeo Spider was too and that thing I swear he was working on it every week with that weird fuel injection system.
 
Messages
801
Location
GA
I don’t know, most of the modern stuff seems very underpowered for what it is like the modern V8 engines I’ve seen. It’s fine we disagree, I will always be a fan of old stuff. That’s just what I think. I have heard from many it’s the emissions. I do know the modern Mustang are pretty fast but they just don’t have that V8 power or sound like they did in the old days. When fuel injection first came out I heard it was a total disaster because they hadn’t worked the bugs out and everyone hated it. Mechanical Fuel Injection was worse. I know the fuel injection when it first came out on the beetles like I like was a total disaster too I’ve had to work on some of the injected ones. Of course that’s mechanical like my dads 1977 Alfa Romeo Spider was too and that thing I swear he was working on it every week with that weird fuel injection system.
I think this can be a perception to some when they compare the low end torque quite literally just off idle of older engines to newer ones with traction control, knock sensors, etc limiting that instant acceleration in most newer vehicles. Many newer vehicles with 300hp won't lay drag as easily as an older vehicle with 200hp. They're faster, but not as... well, brutish. :p
 
Messages
1,665
Location
California
I'm fine with conventional oil disappearing from the market, so long as syn blends (at conventional prices) are here to stay.

ST conventional all on "Clearance" shelf's here in Dallas and @ $14 it's gonna stay there lol :ROFLMAO: 🤪
Dave
Yup, especially when Chevron Supreme is $12 for 5 quarts, no reason to buy ST conventional.


It is a nothing burger
Nothing burgers are delicious, but not very filling. HAHA :D
 
Messages
159
Location
Connecticut
I don’t know, most of the modern stuff seems very underpowered for what it is like the modern V8 engines I’ve seen. It’s fine we disagree, I will always be a fan of old stuff. That’s just what I think. I have heard from many it’s the emissions. I do know the modern Mustang are pretty fast but they just don’t have that V8 power or sound like they did in the old days. When fuel injection first came out I heard it was a total disaster because they hadn’t worked the bugs out and everyone hated it. Mechanical Fuel Injection was worse. I know the fuel injection when it first came out on the beetles like I like was a total disaster too I’ve had to work on some of the injected ones. Of course that’s mechanical like my dads 1977 Alfa Romeo Spider was too and that thing I swear he was working on it every week with that weird fuel injection system.
The future is here, for better or worse. Most of it sucks, but engine power does not.

If you got a 2006 K20A2 from an Acura RSX, it would have 200hp and 150ft/lb of torque in 2L naturally aspirated engine without direct injection.

This is the old engine in the 1980s Preludes (which I love.)
Top Si trim for US emissions was 135hp. Stuck with 9:1 compression, K20A2 is 11:1. With carbs said B20A motor makes about 110hp, just fuel injection alone got it 25hp. The computer controlled carb days were the absolute worst, 50,000 vacuum lines and solenoids and crap. Most people ripped them out for Webers.

1617391127493.png

Be honest, would you prefer that to modern EFI?


Also for modern V8s, I don't wish to be rude, but you're not seeing reality. A 2020 Camaro SS is 455hp naturally aspirated! The 396 SS Camaro of the 1960s was 375 with zero emissions controls, but a real emissions choked Camaro, take a 1980 one, was only 190hp. The only thing I could maybe say about some of the older V8 cars was they had good low end torque due to how the cams were setup, but once you got past 2500RPM they're dogs unless you have better cylinder heads and a cam.


Here's a 2020 Mustang GT. In sport and especially track it sounds pretty awesome to me.

I like old stuff from a style and generally direct feeling and sort of minimalist perspective mostly, and most is nostalgia as the past was in many ways but not all, really a better time in society (I think 99% of car nostalgia is that.) But mechanically, for the most part stuff gets better. There's unfortunate nanny aids meant to make elderly and disabled people drive somewhat safely on modern cars, that's kind of the worst development, that and infotainment setups. But from an engine/mechanical/chassis standpoint I still feel in totality we're doing a lot better than we were. Of course there's things that suck, but there's no going back to carburetors and distributors.

The best thing is as everyone in the performance world is doing, old car, new engine and running gear=best car. Throw out the carbs and swap a K20 in it, get a six speed transmission, get new suspension, get modern tires and wheels, get a nice new radio with USB and Bluetooth, do all that and that's the best way to have an old car if you actually wish to drive it and not look at it or work on it constantly.
 
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Messages
159
Location
Connecticut
So to doublepost on something not really related to conventional motor oil, yes, in the past it was totally possible to build really fast cars and powerful engines without our modern electronics, VVTI, etc. It's relatively easy to build a race engine as a race engine is ultimately only meant for high RPM. Building an engine you can daily drive everyday and turn the key and go (and even pass emissions, no less!) is where we've advanced.

This Spoon race car was a real JGTC race car, built in 1985.


230hp at 9800RPM out of 1.6L.

Problem is, watch it in that video, it takes 3 tries to get started, and has one of the most lopey idles ever almost like a Bridgeport Rotary, it only even manages to run at about 2000-3000rpm without stalling, because the cam has so much overlap and lift.

If you compare it to the JDM K20A from the Civic Type R, yes, the K20 has 400cc more displacement, but it makes 220hp in a car that can be daily driven and doesn't idle like a Bridgeport Rotary. And that K20 came out in 2007.

This guy here has a personal daily driver 2.5L tuned K powered Civic with 330whp, that has considerably better street manners than that old 1985 car. The only way to get power with street manners is through modern stuff.
 
Messages
24,433
Location
Dallas,Tx USA
I wonder though how much of this modern power is "true power". An analogy would be a 50wpc Mac power amp from the 1960s vs a Best Buy 400wpc power amp. The Mac will blow it out of the water because it's true power.

A friend of mine has a newish G37 coupe. rated at 300+ something hp. My 300ZX is rated at 222hp. My car will totally and completely spank her car.
 
Messages
159
Location
Connecticut
I wonder though how much of this modern power is "true power". An analogy would be a 50wpc Mac power amp from the 1960s vs a Best Buy 400wpc power amp. The Mac will blow it out of the water because it's true power.

A friend of mine has a newish G37 coupe. rated at 300+ something hp. My 300ZX is rated at 222hp. My car will totally and completely spank her car.
Have you ever side by side raced or compared quarter miles?

My stock Celica Supras at 160hp rated felt fairly quick, but imo they're about the same as modern cars rated the same HP with similar weight. Ironically my manual Fusion feels a little similar, as its got the same manual transmission gearing, and a 150ish HP 4 and weighs about 3000lbs. I remember at the time my Celica Supra was only a little quicker than my mom's 2001 Ford Taurus, which felt lame as I'd get "DUDE YOU GOT A TURBO BRO, IT MUST BE AT LEAST 400HP!" and I'd be like "No... -___-"
 
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