Continental Pure Contact LS singing
- Thread starter Looger
- Start date
Exactly.
I found a review on Motor Trend(?) that mentioned the reviewed car did NOT have the steering wheel offset.
I'm used to it, but it is bizarre.
More oddities which I've acclimated to: the steering wheel reach seems to fit short people and tall people well, but middle size, 5'8", with long arms and legs...not as well.
It is noted on the Accord forum.
To get proper pedal reach, the steering wheel is a little far away...so I'm slightly crunched up.
And finally, a severe annoyance: the armrests are LOW! By 2-3 inches.
If you have the seat slammed to the floor, they support your elbows. Otherwise, you are out of luck.
I have folded towels on the center armrest, and basically can't use the door rest.
Hondas are notorious for poor seats.
The seat bolsters are hard to the point that they irritate my outer thighs.
There is a seam that runs directly under the sit bones. I can feel a hard piece under it--on BOTH front seats.
My wife, with just a little backside cushion, doesn't notice it.
Slim/muscular people are much less comfortable, period.
The seats look like they would cradle you during turns: not so.
My Impala seats were supportive, but with just enough give so you would sink in slightly. This anchored you to the seat.
On the Honda, you are truly perched on top of the seat, so you don't feel connected to the car during maneuvers.
I'm leaning more and more toward ditching the car.
I'm utterly baffled that Honda, who obviously have some impressive engineering prowess, can make so many unforced errors.
Bob
I found a review on Motor Trend(?) that mentioned the reviewed car did NOT have the steering wheel offset.
I'm used to it, but it is bizarre.
More oddities which I've acclimated to: the steering wheel reach seems to fit short people and tall people well, but middle size, 5'8", with long arms and legs...not as well.
It is noted on the Accord forum.
To get proper pedal reach, the steering wheel is a little far away...so I'm slightly crunched up.
And finally, a severe annoyance: the armrests are LOW! By 2-3 inches.
If you have the seat slammed to the floor, they support your elbows. Otherwise, you are out of luck.
I have folded towels on the center armrest, and basically can't use the door rest.
Hondas are notorious for poor seats.
The seat bolsters are hard to the point that they irritate my outer thighs.
There is a seam that runs directly under the sit bones. I can feel a hard piece under it--on BOTH front seats.
My wife, with just a little backside cushion, doesn't notice it.
Slim/muscular people are much less comfortable, period.
The seats look like they would cradle you during turns: not so.
My Impala seats were supportive, but with just enough give so you would sink in slightly. This anchored you to the seat.
On the Honda, you are truly perched on top of the seat, so you don't feel connected to the car during maneuvers.
I'm leaning more and more toward ditching the car.
I'm utterly baffled that Honda, who obviously have some impressive engineering prowess, can make so many unforced errors.
Bob
Follow up
A trusted local shop checked it out.
"Road tested vehicle and verified concern. Traced to right front intermediate shaft bearing. May possibly need right wheel bearing, hard to tell due to transfer of noise."
Boom.
The issue was so obvious that I was only there for an hour.
Now I have to go lean on the dealer.
I know failures occur, but this is a surprising for 20k miles I don't drive wild, or on super trashed roads (though Michigan roads are pretty nasty in areas).
Bob
A trusted local shop checked it out.
"Road tested vehicle and verified concern. Traced to right front intermediate shaft bearing. May possibly need right wheel bearing, hard to tell due to transfer of noise."
Boom.
The issue was so obvious that I was only there for an hour.
Now I have to go lean on the dealer.
I know failures occur, but this is a surprising for 20k miles I don't drive wild, or on super trashed roads (though Michigan roads are pretty nasty in areas).
Bob
Another update: I took the car back to the dealer and asked them to look at the intermediate shaft bearing. They drove it and put it up on the rack yet they said they can't hear anything.
I didn't argue with them but when I left I went to another dealership and test drove a used Tiguan.
It was a very nice car. It drove nicely, accelerated decently and didn't seem very noisy, except it had a surprisingly loud oscillating droning, which again sounded like it was coming from the driveline like it had a bad wheel bearing.
It was a CPO 2019 SE with about 30,000 mi on it.
I informed the salesperson about the issue and she stated she was surprised since they allegedly do a thorough evaluation with their certified pre-owned cars.
If the sound that I heard is normal driveline noise there's no way I would buy that car.
Which brings me to another thing what is wrong with these cars? How is it possible for that them to have drive line or bearing noise at low mileage? Are they just cheap or are people smashing them through potholes or something?
I had one bad wheel bearing on my 2009 Impala over the course of a decade.
Sorry about the rant. I guess I will go and test drive a new or newer Tiguan. I'm tempted to test drive the Hyundai Tucson as well because I hear it's a reasonably quiet car.
And regarding my accord, I can take it to the dealership which the local garage recommended to see if they agree that there is a problem.
Upon further thought, there seems to be 2 possible issues.
Because the noise is the same regardless of surface, it must be generated independent of interaction with the road.
The first, and probably most likely cause would be drivetrain.
The second could be airflow through the tire tread, or harmonic noise, as this parameter remains fairly constant regardless of road surface.
A mechanic stated there is noise from the intermediate shaft bearing. The dealer, twice, disagreed, and didn't hear any noise at all.
The only way to rule out harmonic noise is by changing the tires...and I don't have a spare set laying around.
I need to be careful because I'm so frustrated with my current car that I could end up making a rash decision on getting another one.
Bob
I didn't argue with them but when I left I went to another dealership and test drove a used Tiguan.
It was a very nice car. It drove nicely, accelerated decently and didn't seem very noisy, except it had a surprisingly loud oscillating droning, which again sounded like it was coming from the driveline like it had a bad wheel bearing.
It was a CPO 2019 SE with about 30,000 mi on it.
I informed the salesperson about the issue and she stated she was surprised since they allegedly do a thorough evaluation with their certified pre-owned cars.
If the sound that I heard is normal driveline noise there's no way I would buy that car.
Which brings me to another thing what is wrong with these cars? How is it possible for that them to have drive line or bearing noise at low mileage? Are they just cheap or are people smashing them through potholes or something?
I had one bad wheel bearing on my 2009 Impala over the course of a decade.
Sorry about the rant. I guess I will go and test drive a new or newer Tiguan. I'm tempted to test drive the Hyundai Tucson as well because I hear it's a reasonably quiet car.
And regarding my accord, I can take it to the dealership which the local garage recommended to see if they agree that there is a problem.
Upon further thought, there seems to be 2 possible issues.
Because the noise is the same regardless of surface, it must be generated independent of interaction with the road.
The first, and probably most likely cause would be drivetrain.
The second could be airflow through the tire tread, or harmonic noise, as this parameter remains fairly constant regardless of road surface.
A mechanic stated there is noise from the intermediate shaft bearing. The dealer, twice, disagreed, and didn't hear any noise at all.
The only way to rule out harmonic noise is by changing the tires...and I don't have a spare set laying around.
I need to be careful because I'm so frustrated with my current car that I could end up making a rash decision on getting another one.
Bob
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Keep in mind, when I had a set of continentals which “sang” on the interstate, the singing was very pronounced only because they had no white noise - they were very quiet tires, which revealed the noise. It bothered me too, so I swapped to a set of bridgestones which while overall being noisier, were more of a white noise which wasn’t as piercing.
Thanks for the input, meep.
I was mentioned above that tires can cause noise in 2 ways, but you nicely articulated that if it is quiet in one aspect, the other may seem magnified.
Though I still think the noise is in the drivetrain, I'm open to the possibility that the tires are the cause.
Indeed, the noise seemed to shift/change with the new tires.
I'm going to get another opinion soon. I need to determine if the issue is tires before my 60 day return window closes.
Bob
I was mentioned above that tires can cause noise in 2 ways, but you nicely articulated that if it is quiet in one aspect, the other may seem magnified.
Though I still think the noise is in the drivetrain, I'm open to the possibility that the tires are the cause.
Indeed, the noise seemed to shift/change with the new tires.
I'm going to get another opinion soon. I need to determine if the issue is tires before my 60 day return window closes.
Bob
A couple of thoughts from a tire engineer who spent some time with the NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) guys at Ford.
There are a lot of sheet metal panels that can vibrate in sympathy with something else that is vibrating, The fix is either to reduce the source of the vibration or dampen the panel - like applying a piece of foam - sometimes both.
Humans have this remarkable ability to focus in on noise and vibrations - to the point where even after it is eliminated, people will swear it is still there! It takes a bit of training to be able to clear your memory of such things - which is why car manufacturers have NVH guys! They are trained to do this.
How does it apply here?
I strongly suspect your issue is with the intermediate shaft bearing - as diagnosed. I suspect that the vehicle dealer knows how far he can push warranty issues and this doesn't reach that level. Ever hear of "They all do that!"? That's what is going on there. You might try going to a different dealer.
But keep an open mind. It just might be that the problem isn't as big as you think it is.
There are a lot of sheet metal panels that can vibrate in sympathy with something else that is vibrating, The fix is either to reduce the source of the vibration or dampen the panel - like applying a piece of foam - sometimes both.
Humans have this remarkable ability to focus in on noise and vibrations - to the point where even after it is eliminated, people will swear it is still there! It takes a bit of training to be able to clear your memory of such things - which is why car manufacturers have NVH guys! They are trained to do this.
How does it apply here?
I strongly suspect your issue is with the intermediate shaft bearing - as diagnosed. I suspect that the vehicle dealer knows how far he can push warranty issues and this doesn't reach that level. Ever hear of "They all do that!"? That's what is going on there. You might try going to a different dealer.
But keep an open mind. It just might be that the problem isn't as big as you think it is.
The steering column off center (it is likely actually at a angle to the center line) is a occupant safety strategy...
The entire intermediate shaft assembly is less than 200 bucks at the usual online discounters. The wheel bearing is also less than 200 bucks but in short supply. The intermediate shaft bearing is only about 40 bucks but not sure how complicated to replace.
Id be tempted to replace the intermediate shaft bearing on my own. If it fixed it id go after Honda corprate. You shouldn't have to but even if you replace the entire intermediate shaft assy, the wheel bearing and the Continentals you'll likely be out less than what you will be out trading.
The entire intermediate shaft assembly is less than 200 bucks at the usual online discounters. The wheel bearing is also less than 200 bucks but in short supply. The intermediate shaft bearing is only about 40 bucks but not sure how complicated to replace.
Id be tempted to replace the intermediate shaft bearing on my own. If it fixed it id go after Honda corprate. You shouldn't have to but even if you replace the entire intermediate shaft assy, the wheel bearing and the Continentals you'll likely be out less than what you will be out trading.
I really appreciate the input.
My role as a mechanic was drivability, so around half of my work was tracking down noise (or trying to find a vacuum leak on an engine with about 20 miles of vac line).
I thought about making the repair myself, but I'm so darn busy I barely have time to sleep.
I didn't mention it before, but my local garage asked who was servicing my car (under warranty).
I told them, and without pause, they blurted out "we don't like them", and cited another unliked, but fairly close dealer.
They recommended a dealer nearly an hour away.
I was stunned. Their response seemed gut-level and I'd never heard them speak negatively about other servicers.
The garage is clean, professional, and very well regarded.
We are also a fairly small community, so poor service spreads like wildfire...so, despite my notorious "trust but verify" nature, I think they are trustworthy.
Due to time constraints, I had the same non-recommended dealer re-assess the car...with the same non-result.
So yesterday I sent a detailed message to the recommended dealer regarding my situation.
We'll see how it goes.
I love being a husband, father, and valued part of an amazing team of professionals...but I wish there were more hours in a day.
Bob
My role as a mechanic was drivability, so around half of my work was tracking down noise (or trying to find a vacuum leak on an engine with about 20 miles of vac line).
I thought about making the repair myself, but I'm so darn busy I barely have time to sleep.
I didn't mention it before, but my local garage asked who was servicing my car (under warranty).
I told them, and without pause, they blurted out "we don't like them", and cited another unliked, but fairly close dealer.
They recommended a dealer nearly an hour away.
I was stunned. Their response seemed gut-level and I'd never heard them speak negatively about other servicers.
The garage is clean, professional, and very well regarded.
We are also a fairly small community, so poor service spreads like wildfire...so, despite my notorious "trust but verify" nature, I think they are trustworthy.
Due to time constraints, I had the same non-recommended dealer re-assess the car...with the same non-result.
So yesterday I sent a detailed message to the recommended dealer regarding my situation.
We'll see how it goes.
I love being a husband, father, and valued part of an amazing team of professionals...but I wish there were more hours in a day.
Bob
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- Dec 2, 2021
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Did you ever resolve this issue? I think I'm having the same problem with my 2018 Accord
Sadly my '07 Sonata was a lot quieter than my '17 Accord. Same thing with the '08 CRV and '19 Pilot but the vehicles fit rest of needs and wants. Different tires made a noticeable change.
On my Accord I put the Pirelli P7 Cinturato AS+2. The difference over the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady was very noticeable. Pilot - Defender LTX MS replaced the Bridgestone Dueler Sport A/S and also much quieter now. CRV- got Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS+ replacing old worn Michelin Defender T&H, also much quieter. I bought those based on the quiet ratings. I run snows in winter so some added noise then is expected.
Sadly, Continental Winter Contact Si on Pilot was a lot quieter than the Bridgestones. Even the Wife commented how much less road noise plus the much better winter grip.
Many of the winter tires I have get a louder HISS on acceleration and braking on smooth pavement especially wet smooth pavement.
Also update your profile so it shows location. You might have a member real close with a similar vehicle willing to help swap rims/tires and test.
On my Accord I put the Pirelli P7 Cinturato AS+2. The difference over the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady was very noticeable. Pilot - Defender LTX MS replaced the Bridgestone Dueler Sport A/S and also much quieter now. CRV- got Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS+ replacing old worn Michelin Defender T&H, also much quieter. I bought those based on the quiet ratings. I run snows in winter so some added noise then is expected.
Sadly, Continental Winter Contact Si on Pilot was a lot quieter than the Bridgestones. Even the Wife commented how much less road noise plus the much better winter grip.
Many of the winter tires I have get a louder HISS on acceleration and braking on smooth pavement especially wet smooth pavement.
Also update your profile so it shows location. You might have a member real close with a similar vehicle willing to help swap rims/tires and test.
@DuckRyder - do tell - I’ve had several vehicles with off-center wheels and they bug me to no end. My ‘18 f150 isn’t bad (maybe 1/4”), and the Lexus sedan and crv both seem centered. How does the safety strategy work?
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- Dec 2, 2021
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- 2
For anyone curious, balancing all 4 wheels seems to have fixed most of the noise.
I couldn't see how a rebalance would impact tire noise, but if it worked for you, I'm glad of it.
I don't know if you've ever tried one, but you might be happier with a Mercedes E-class. They don't seem to have any of those niggly issues that you mention. I'm talking E's newer than 2018, which is the newest version I think.
The Mercedes E Class W213 starts in 2017 and there was a refresh in 2021. Not sure if you have runflats though, those tend to ride rougher than regular tires as there's no spare tire. Some also claim that all Mercedes dealers have hunter road force balancing.
Some of the 4 cylinders seem to have engine problems though.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-...des-w213-e300-needs-new-engine-23k-miles.html
I read this thread with interest, because I own these tires on my 2010 Camry, and don't have this issue.
I would lean towards a bad wheel bearing, due to an experience with my Dakota. It had a low hum that turned into a loud howl over 10K miles (that would be about 4-5 years driving for this beast). The left front bearing was as smooth as silk, the old check of spinning it while holding the spring revealed nothing.
The howling went away went I replaced the wheel bearing.
I would lean towards a bad wheel bearing, due to an experience with my Dakota. It had a low hum that turned into a loud howl over 10K miles (that would be about 4-5 years driving for this beast). The left front bearing was as smooth as silk, the old check of spinning it while holding the spring revealed nothing.
The howling went away went I replaced the wheel bearing.
That's interesting, this post seems to indicate that a spark plug got INTO the engine. I don't see how that's possible. I've heard of spark plugs blowing OUT of an engine, but never IN to one.
Somebody is not telling the truth on this one, be it the dealership or the poster.
However, you are correct about the MB not having a spare, like MANY cars today, and yes it does have run flats, which I agree can be a little harsh at times. My current vehicle has air suspension, so you don't notice very much harshness at all, and it's VERY quiet.
Also, none of the steereing wheels have been offset in any that I've driven. I'd say compared to a Tiguan, the E class would be a whole lot less problematic. At least mine have.
Some of the 4 cylinders seem to have engine problems though.
mbworld.org
Somebody is not telling the truth on this one, be it the dealership or the poster.
However, you are correct about the MB not having a spare, like MANY cars today, and yes it does have run flats, which I agree can be a little harsh at times. My current vehicle has air suspension, so you don't notice very much harshness at all, and it's VERY quiet.
Also, none of the steereing wheels have been offset in any that I've driven. I'd say compared to a Tiguan, the E class would be a whole lot less problematic. At least mine have.
Some of the 4 cylinders seem to have engine problems though.
2018 Mercedes W213 E300 needs new engine @ 23K Miles - MBWorld.org Forums
E-Class (W213) - 2018 Mercedes W213 E300 needs new engine @ 23K Miles - I own 2014 E350 and I absolutely love my car. I encouraged my sister to buy E300 in 2018 as they rated one of the safest vehicle manufacture in the world. Now she needs a new engine on the w213. She was driving home from a...mbworld.org
After continued reading on the MB Forum mentioned above. This particular problem was in the 2015 m/y C class only, and in that, only the first HALF of the year. It also turns out that it was NOT a spark plug being sucked into the engine, but a cracked piston as a result of poor tolerances of the wrist pin, usually occuring on #1 piston. The dealerships apparently renamed the issue to avoid liability by MB (not good). Later 2015 versions of that same engine were free of that defect.
So yeah, kinda reminds me of the Northstar engine issues. A couple people don't change coolant as required and the whole engine line is condemd by the internet.
Still say an E would be more trouble free than a Tiguan.
So yeah, kinda reminds me of the Northstar engine issues. A couple people don't change coolant as required and the whole engine line is condemd by the internet.
Still say an E would be more trouble free than a Tiguan.
What do E Class spark plug issues and Tiguans have to do with a noisy Continental tire thread?
From the original poster:
I suggested he'd be better off test driving an E-class. I've heard some not so good things about VAG.
