Considering switching from Verizon to AT&T - Have some technical questions about the network and GSM phones.

[Fordiesel69]

Exactly around the time of the pandemic oddly enough, verizon did something in the north west PA area extending into the north east area of ohio that makes voice calls extremely unreliable. At times this also affects the data as well. In 2019 and prior verizon was 100% rock solid and only a few small areas by the lake, and in the mountains dropped calls. I want to know what the technical things are that have changed that caused this degradations, not just the fact that verizon sucks. That is not helpful, I know they suck.

I spoke to some tech friends and they said that when verizon decommissioned the 1X and their CDMA 3G protocol, it essentially destroyed the robustness of their range. And that while their new 5G improves the sound of the voice calls, and can boost data speeds, the overall abilty to make / hold onto calls is reduced when you are in between antennas.

Now onto AT&T. Verizon has used CDMA call protocol, which apparently made them stand out against the competition, now that AT&T has always had GSM type network, is this at all superior? Also can I take my old verizon number I have had since 1999 over to AT&T?

 

[BrendanC]

I’ve had both in the houston area and will pick AT&T every time. you should have no issues porting in your number.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

You can use this website to verify towers in the areas that you described.

https://www.antennasearch.com/

You can also download the Open Signal app on your phone to also verify tower connections that you might use the most. Also note the time of day when you have issues as all of the networks load balance during rush hour use and when stationary nodes are de-prioritized which means they are pushed off the tower or network.

 

[mk378]

It's basic physics. Using the same transmitter power, higher data rates have less energy per bit. This means the signal will not go as far and new towers will likely need to be constructed to fill in the gaps between the existing ones that were usable before. Verizon has not done that. Companies are also moving frequency bands around to dedicate some to 5G only. This means that your 4G phone may be relegated to a different band that does not travel as far. And buying a 5G phone is not the answer because 5G does not travel as far as 4G in any case.

CDMA and GSM are 2G protocols. In 2G phone calls were connected with a different type of signal that used a low bit rate and was highly optimized for phone calls. This no longer exists, and all calls are now carried on the same 4G / 5G signals and treated as data.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

It's basic physics. Using the same transmitter power, higher data rates have less energy per bit. This means the signal will not go as far and new towers will likely need to be constructed to fill in the gaps between the existing ones that were usable before. Verizon has not done that. Companies are also moving frequency bands around to dedicate some to 5G only. This means that your 4G phone may be relegated to a different band that does not travel as far. And buying a 5G phone is not the answer because 5G does not travel as far as 4G in any case.

CDMA and GSM are 2G protocols. In 2G phone calls were connected with a different type of signal that used a low bit rate and was highly optimized for phone calls. This no longer exists, and all calls are now carried on the same 4G / 5G signals and treated as data.

No truer words have been spoken. If most people saw all of the things and tech wizardry that has to function properly to make a cell phone call possible, their heads would spin.

 

[Fordiesel69]

mk378,

What you said is very interesting. So I now need to ask, due to the fact health emergencies exisit, and real business is still conducted via a voice phone call, and not always facebook and entertainment apps, why woudl any phone company decommision old signals without first installing new towners and transmitters.

I dont even begin to understand all the tech wizardry but i am not at all joking when I say phone calls early to mid 2000s were rock solid and they are now hardly useable in my area.,

 

[KJSmith]

why woudl any phone company decommision old signals without first installing new towners and transmitters.

It's not likely that you could buy a phone that runs on anything prior to 4G.
I had a 3G flip phone for years....Verizon would call me every 3 or 4 months trying to get me to upgrade.
It gets to the point that there are so few customers on that technology they just shut it off.
They are in business to make a profit.

FYI...... Verizon does not own cell towers anymore.
They lease space on them.

 

[KJSmith]

I’ve had both in the houston area and will pick AT&T every time. you should have no issues porting in your number.

My experience living in Houston is the exact opposite.
The company I work for switched to ATT, after ATT promised we would have service in our whole area.
We did not.
Most of us had personal Verizon phones so we would have service.

San Angleo was exact opposite.
Verizon service out there was supposedly terrible.
They were happy with the switch to ATT.

 

[alarmguy]

Exactly around the time of the pandemic oddly enough, verizon did something in the north west PA area extending into the north east area of ohio that makes voice calls extremely unreliable. At times this also affects the data as well. In 2019 and prior verizon was 100% rock solid and only a few small areas by the lake, and in the mountains dropped calls. I want to know what the technical things are that have changed that caused this degradations, not just the fact that verizon sucks. That is not helpful, I know they suck.

I spoke to some tech friends and they said that when verizon decommissioned the 1X and their CDMA 3G protocol, it essentially destroyed the robustness of their range. And that while their new 5G improves the sound of the voice calls, and can boost data speeds, the overall abilty to make / hold onto calls is reduced when you are in between antennas.

Now onto AT&T. Verizon has used CDMA call protocol, which apparently made them stand out against the competition, now that AT&T has always had GSM type network, is this at all superior? Also can I take my old verizon number I have had since 1999 over to AT&T?

Yes, You can take your phone number with you.
The only thing superior anywhere is what towers support the area that you live in.
You can sign up for AT&T no contract service and if you dont like it, switch back to Verizon no contract.
Or go with a MVNO such as US Mobile (or red pocket) that offers AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile.
Getting cell phone service is no different than deciding what gas that you want to put in your car in any given month. Easy to switch if your comfortable with a computer, if not you would have to call for service.

With all the above said, one thing comes to mind. Are you using an old outdated phone? Something doesnt sound right

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Verizon stopped using CDMA a few years ago. Sprint also stopped using it when T-Mobile bought them out.

When Verizon went 4G-only, and like T-Mobile and AT&T have always done, you could just transfer the SIM card between phones whenever you needed a new phone (as long as you stayed with the same carrier, of course). During CDMA-era Sprint and Verizon, you had to actually activate the phone with Sprint or Verizon.

Keeping your phone number when you switch carriers shouldn't be a problem at all. However, if you plan on using your current phone with another carrier, make sure it will actually work with the new carrier. Check the LTE bands your phone has, what bands Verizon uses in your area, and what bands the other carriers use in your area.

 

[loneryder]

You can use this website to verify towers in the areas that you described.

https://www.antennasearch.com/

You can also download the Open Signal app on your phone to also verify tower connections that you might use the most. Also note the time of day when you have issues as all of the networks load balance during rush hour use and when stationary nodes are de-prioritized which means they are pushed off the tower or network.

According to this site, there are no towers in my area. I have 5g at my house and there is a large tower owned by AT&T very visible in my community. All the different companies use that tower and it has been there for decades. They say the site was just updated.???

 

[alarmguy]

Verizon stopped using CDMA a few years ago. Sprint also stopped using it when T-Mobile bought them out.

When Verizon went 4G-only, and like T-Mobile and AT&T have always done, you could just transfer the SIM card between phones whenever you needed a new phone (as long as you stayed with the same carrier, of course). During CDMA-era Sprint and Verizon, you had to actually activate the phone with Sprint or Verizon.

Keeping your phone number when you switch carriers shouldn't be a problem at all. However, if you plan on using your current phone with another carrier, make sure it will actually work with the new carrier. Check the LTE bands your phone has, what bands Verizon uses in your area, and what bands the other carriers use in your area.

It is iffy. This link tells the story but Verizon has not had a compete transformation to GSM/LTE yet. What you say is correct though, they stopped using it but much of their infrastructure contains CDMA ... I find it confusing myself.
I also notice with some MVNOs when traveling overseas you are going to use a non Verizon esim or SIM card to something like that. Meaning it's not as fluid with again, SOME MVNOs. I dont know why yet but I will find out soon. *LOL*
Dont mistake my post as saying it is a problem overseas, Im just telling you of an extra step with a MVNO that I have being I use Verizon so not necessary for anyone to tell me they have Verizon and no issues traveling. I know that as long as your Verizon phone can handle the GSM frequencies overseas or something like that.

"In conclusion, Verizon is primarily a CDMA network. While they have begun implementing GSM technology for certain services, their network infrastructure is built on CDMA. CDMA offers advantages such as better call quality and increased capacity, but it also limits device compatibility. However, the introduction of 5G technology may bring about more compatibility with GSM devices, offering customers more options in the future."

Source = https://thetechylife.com/is-verizon-a-cdma-or-gsm-network/

I can say both my wife and I noticed more crisp voice quality when we switched from T-Mobile's network to an MVNO carrying Verizon service which we have now. The crisp sound of voice calls is noticeable, not that the other was bad, it was just noticeable when we went to Verizon for the first time in my life a couple months ago after using cell phones for the last 22 years.

 

[wag123]

Exactly around the time of the pandemic oddly enough, verizon did something in the north west PA area extending into the north east area of ohio that makes voice calls extremely unreliable. At times this also affects the data as well. In 2019 and prior verizon was 100% rock solid and only a few small areas by the lake, and in the mountains dropped calls. I want to know what the technical things are that have changed that caused this degradations, not just the fact that verizon sucks. That is not helpful, I know they suck.

I spoke to some tech friends and they said that when verizon decommissioned the 1X and their CDMA 3G protocol, it essentially destroyed the robustness of their range. And that while their new 5G improves the sound of the voice calls, and can boost data speeds, the overall abilty to make / hold onto calls is reduced when you are in between antennas.

Now onto AT&T. Verizon has used CDMA call protocol, which apparently made them stand out against the competition, now that AT&T has always had GSM type network, is this at all superior? Also can I take my old verizon number I have had since 1999 over to AT&T?

Yes, it was the switch to 5G, combined with moving the services to different bands (some of them so high that the signal won't pass through walls, car bodies, or trees) and scaling-back the use of 4G/LTE. It isn't just Verizon's service that has suffered.
The old terms/technologies CDMA and GSM simply don't apply any longer because the new technology doesn't use them.
IMO 5G has been the biggest fraud that the carriers have ever forced on us.

 

[alarmguy]

...
IMO 5G has been the biggest fraud that the carriers have ever forced on us.

Yup, it's all marketing, same with the some of fast home internet speeds. Most families can not use 1gb download speeds but they sell it, for more profit.
5G IS THE FUTURE but it's not about cell phones. It's about everything.
One day home internet access will be 5g (or better) gone will be fiber internet landlines, just the same as landline phones have gone away.

https://www.ibm.com/think/insights/5g-future

https://www.wired.com/story/wired-guide-5g/

 

[wag123]

The WIRED Guide to 5G​

Here's everything you need to know about the spectrum, millimeter-wave technology, and what 5G means for you.

www.wired.com

Here are the key statements in this article that explain why the carriers have pushed 5G so hard... "allows for more devices to be connected simultaneously", and... "also helps to keep us all online when we are part of a crowd, whether it’s a packed concert or a football game". The bottom line is that the more people they have on-line the more money they make. It is all about profit, not customer service or satisfaction.

 

[KJSmith]

Way back when Verizon owned us, they had no interest in running fiber to customers' homes.
Their plan at the time was to put a nib antenna on the side of houses and sell them everything through 5G.

So, they announced a week or so ago that they are buying my former employer back.
One of the reasons is all the government money available for them to build out a fiber network.

You guys are behind. I was told the other day my former employer sells 7gb for residential service.

I was happy with 25mb.

 

[ctrcbob]

1. I switched from Verizon to ATT. Then when ATT would not work with me on price,

2. I switched to
T-Mobil. Half the price. Have coverage everywhere I travel. Even rural Texas and NM
Where no coverage in West Texas, it roams. No extra charge.

3. If you bought your phone from Verizon ;or any cell provider) your phone is LOCKED into that company. They tell you it’s easy to unlock, but THEY LIE. Very difficult to unlock phone. Carrier (Verizon) wants you to stay with them).
That is why

4. I always buy my iPhones from the Apple Store. Unlocked. only then do I have my carrier
(T-Mobil) activate.

5. I can switch any time
I can go to Europe, purchase a local SIM and everything works. ;in France, I use ORANGE or
F-SFR. In Italy, I use WIND or VODAFONE Works like a charm.
Better yet, my phone has eSIM so I keep my American number in eSIM and European number in SIM.

BTW;
The whole world is GSM.
I assume Version has switched from CDMA.

 

[alarmguy]

Here are the key statements in this article that explain why the carriers have pushed 5G so hard... "allows for more devices to be connected simultaneously", and... "also helps to keep us all online when we are part of a crowd, whether it’s a packed concert or a football game". The bottom line is that the more people they have on-line the more money they make. It is all about profit, not customer service or satisfaction.

Agree They are not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. However, they have many many many more future uses for the technology to make even more profits.
Everything is going to run on 5G the cars going down the roadway

 

[97prizm]

Exactly around the time of the pandemic oddly enough, verizon did something in the north west PA area extending into the north east area of ohio that makes voice calls extremely unreliable. At times this also affects the data as well. In 2019 and prior verizon was 100% rock solid and only a few small areas by the lake, and in the mountains dropped calls. I want to know what the technical things are that have changed that caused this degradations, not just the fact that verizon sucks. That is not helpful, I know they suck.

I spoke to some tech friends and they said that when verizon decommissioned the 1X and their CDMA 3G protocol, it essentially destroyed the robustness of their range. And that while their new 5G improves the sound of the voice calls, and can boost data speeds, the overall abilty to make / hold onto calls is reduced when you are in between antennas.

Now onto AT&T. Verizon has used CDMA call protocol, which apparently made them stand out against the competition, now that AT&T has always had GSM type network, is this at all superior? Also can I take my old verizon number I have had since 1999 over to AT&T?

With the 3G gone all carriers have gone to LTE. I'm fairly certain that all 4G is LTE as well meaning no gsm vs cdma vs tdma towers.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

According to this site, there are no towers in my area. I have 5g at my house and there is a large tower owned by AT&T very visible in my community. All the different companies use that tower and it has been there for decades. They say the site was just updated.???

The towers listed could be third-party owned but have ATT or VZW equipment on them. FOr example American Tower is a big contractor to ATT, and so is Ericsonn. Crown Castle is also a big contractor to Verizon. When you look at the data Antenna Search provides you kind of have to read between the lines.
https://www.celltowerleaseexperts.c...ost 65% of all cell,3”” cell tower companies.