Confessions of a Recovering Thickie

[buster]

This makes sense as TriSyn produced some of the cleanest high mileage engines I’ve ever seen.

And HPL is sort of a TriSyn on steriods.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

M1 ESP 5w30 uses PAO and AN in its base oil (and possibly some GTL too)

Thanks

 

[JAG]

M1 ESP 5w30 uses PAO and AN in its base oil (and possibly some GTL too)

Is AN definitely there or are you saying it might have it? That’s the first time I’ve heard anything about that beyond it possibly having it.

 

[Jetronic]

I wonder how an OEM comes up with the B10 and whether they test a wide range of viscosities?

Take an engine that is pretty tough on oil. Take 10 of those engines and split them up 5/5 using 0w20 vs 5w30 or pick your grade. Run them all for 300k miles in a simulated test. Tear them down and see what grade did best. They're not doing that.

They would do that if it confirmed that the current oil cap viscosity is best....

 

[Mechanician]

The title of this thread drew many clicks. Amazingly it has stayed intellectual, and respectful.
Kudos!

 

[BornSlippy]

The title of this thread drew many clicks. Amazingly it has stayed intellectual, and respectful.
Kudos!

It's only page four.

 

[TurboZedd-R]

Likely the average driver isn't driving hard enough / hot enough to require a thick viscosity. There isn't one answer, and it's why there is a large variety of choices depending on application.

So you are saying if you drive a grocery getter making 240hp on north American roads at 40 mph you don't need a xxw40? That is RIDICULOUS.

 

[Azimuth]

M1 ESP 5w30 uses PAO and AN in its base oil (and possibly some GTL too)

Do you have a source on it using AN? Genuinely curious.

 

[Patman]

Do you have a source on it using AN? Genuinely curious.

I read it somewhere on here recently but I can’t seem to find it

 

[Azimuth]

I read it somewhere on here recently but I can’t seem to find it

I found this on another website, does it tell anything?

 

[ripcord]

I found this on another website, does it tell anything?

View attachment 278044

It says Sponge Bob and Patrick are dumb.

 

[loneryder]

Also wear isn’t the main discriminatory between synthetic and conventional base stocks. In fact PAO exhibits slightly increased wear. But that’s just for the stock.

After that there are anti-wear additives plus the fact that today’s Group III synthetics are structurally the same as a conventional.

Synthetic stock gets you better cold weather performance and things such as better oxidation resistance and less deposit formation. Some also allow the use of less VM to achieve a specific winter rating.

The results I was talking about was the varnish.

 

[ka9mnx]

I found this on another website, does it tell anything?

View attachment 278044

I can see PAO but not AN.

 

[JAG]

I can see PAO but not AN.

I agree that there is no AN due to lack of big ripples in the 700s on the x-axis. Bummer.

 

[mikeduf]

Everybody has their own Hang-Ups in their own fetishes and obsessions.
I'm not a psych here but if you maintain your engine properly it should last well enough.
If it's a piece of crap it's going to fail no matter what kind of oil you put it in.
This is just my two cents here after going through four pages of this post.

 

[andyd]

First visit to PCMO page in ages. As far as PCMO goes, we are in the golden age. I can go ANYWHERE and buy a 0w20 that will give the engine in my 2016 Camry adequate lubrication for the 5Kmiles or whatever the car tells me to service engine. That means oil and filter and a glance at the pink antifreeze level. My last oil and filter change was virtually drip-less. It took about 4X longer than the same task on the 528e. Ramps, carpet, clean bucket, the tools, plastic gloves, just in case rags. The drain plug is a 14mm and the original washer is doing fine. I rigged the oil filter drain gizmo. ($20) and got it draining into bucket without spilling a drop. Ta Dah. Next, red and black 16 sided socket ( $30) was a struggle due a sheered off nubbin that left burs on the phenolic basket. That blemish was caused by the failure of the $12 cheapo socket. I couldn't see 'em but I could feel 'em. A couple minutes with the chain saw files, disappeared them and the socket works without jamming.

 

[tired]

Thanks for stating that.

I wasn't planning on listening to those who say I need to change the oil 3 times earlier than the intelligent OLM says it needs to be changed given I only run HPL or Amsoil SS and do 90% highway driving ( and no fuel dilution problems ).

Edit: I think the member who did a UOA and checked for fuel dilution was very smart, but I don't have fuel dilution problems because of my type of driving. If I did, I would change it earlier.

Yes but you do burn a pretty impressive amount of oil after following the "intelligent" OLM so I'm not sure you're really posting a W here.

 

[tired]

When I first joined this site back in 2002 there was a guy named George from AV Lube (something like that) who was an XOM distributor. When they switched from TriSyn to SuperSyn, it was said (by him) that XOM was trying to get rid of the ester component ($). The thinking was they were going to rely more on oxidation resistance and leave out the high solvency esters. This may or may not be true but it's what he said back in the day.

I've heard some refer to oils like that as dry oils - lacking solvency but relying heavily on oxidation resistance and detergents to keep things clean. I don't know how true or not true this is but I could see that being the case.

Price is usually somewhat indicative of oil performance. Look at all the most expensive oils and they all use ester/AN. Amsoil leaves them out for their XL and OE line, but uses a good slug in the SS.

Maybe that is what separates that real clean looking metal that @wwillson has shown in his engine pics vs the typical yellow varnish look you often see.

What does @wwillson run?

Edit: nevermind. I saw elsewhere he runs HPL.

 

[tired]

Is AN definitely there or are you saying it might have it? That’s the first time I’ve heard anything about that beyond it possibly having it.

IIRC it's speculation because the M1 ESP 5W-30 doesn't have esters (oxidation too low) so people assume it has AN in its place to replace the esters' function.

 

[tired]

As a long-time Honda owner (close to 40 years) have been fortunate to have the acquaintance and friendship of several Honda Master-Certified Technicians who service our cars and been very honest and communicating about proper service. You are correct that most Honda customers follow the MM, use whatever bulk oil the dealer supplies and have little or no major issues despite the 1.5t's "problems "
I imagine that most Honda customers trade their cars a lot earlier than most here on the forum. My issue with the Honda MM is that it's an algorithm, tells you NOTHING about the actual condition of the fluids.
My wife's 2020 CRV was exclusively short-trips and at about 2400 miles on Mobil1 0w20 EP, with the MM indicating 70% life remaining, 2 different UOA's showing the oil both diluted and thinned significantly below grade viscosity. Obviously the engine type, operating conditions and usage showing that following the MM would not be wise with long-term ownership considered. Before trading it in on an HR-V with its non-turbo, port injection engine we considered the actual usage would be classified as severe. Conversations with my trusted Technician indicating that the 2.0 engine in the HR-V would be much more tolerant of this type of usage. She drives about 3k/yr. After 30 years as a Biomedical Technician working on life-support equipment, firmly believe that Pre-emptive maintenance beats reactive maintenance every time. I'd rather just change the oil rather than an endless series of UOA's. My 2023 Civic with the 1.5t now has 22k on it, using Mobil1 5W-30 EP without issues, usually 4-5k intervals, it's does more highway but gets driven more as I'm still working part-time.

I'm curious after two results showing M1 EP had thinned out significantly in your vehicle with 70% life remaining on the OLM, and you still run M1 EP?? Have you considered a different oil that will hold up better?