Concerns about Amsoil ATF

[The Critic]

Four years ago, Amsoil Universal ATF was a fluid recommended for use in Dexron III, Mercon V, and ATF+4 applications by Amsoil. That was in late 2002 or early 2003. (Don’t recall exact years, irrelevant anyways)

In 2003, Amsoil began recommending their fluid for usage in Honda ATF-Z1 and Toyota T-IV applications upon the completion of their field and bench testing. However, no reformulation of the product needed to taken place in order for the Amsoil Universal ATF to be used successfully Honda ATF-Z1 and Toyota T-IV specifications.

While I personally know of many satisfied users of Amsoil Universal ATF in Honda ATF-Z1 and Toyota T-IV applications, this contradicts and raises doubts regarding the different dynamic friction properties between automatic transmission fluid specifications.

My understanding of these dynamic friction properties of automatic transmission fluids, based upon my discussions with industry experts, is that the dynamic friction properties between automatic transmission fluid performance standards may vary significantly. In addition, only a slight difference in the dynamic friction properties of a fluid is needed to cause slippage or harsh shifts.

While an end user may be satisfied with the product provided that the fluid allows for proper operation of their automatic transmission, it still poses questions with regards to the true compatibility of these fluids in applications that it was not originally designed for.

In addition, I’ve been told by various people that certain proprietary fluids such as the ATF+4, Honda ATF-Z1, etc contain a higher level of friction modification compared to Dexron or Mercon fluids. Thus, was Amsoil able to successfully complete the testing of, and begin recommending their Universal ATF product for use in Honda ATF-Z1 and Toyota T-IV applications solely because the level of friction modification already contained in the fluid allowed it to perform successfully in applications other than it was originally designed for (i.e. Honda ATF-Z1 and Toyota T-IV), and the fluids are truly compatible for the Honda and Toyota applications? Or, was the fluid just “happen to work” in Honda ATF-Z1 and Toyota T-IV applications?

Thanks.

 

[G-MAN]

It's a numbers game, and Amsoil seems to play it very well. Here's a very simplified example:

Let's say the "ideal" friction coefficient for Dex IIIH is 4, but any fluid that has a number between 1 and 8 will operate effectively, it just won't be ideal. And let's say for Mercon V the ideal number is 7, but the specs allow for any number between 3 and 9. And for ATF+3/+4 the ideal number is 10, but the specs allow for any number between 6 and 10.

Amsoil comes along with a universal fluid that has a friction coefficient of 6 and declares it fit for use in any of these applications. Technically, they are correct. But it is not the "ideal" fluid for any of them.

Of course, the numbers I'm using here are just made up for illustrative purposes only and don't correspond to any real specs.

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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based upon my discussions with industry experts, is that the dynamic friction properties between automatic transmission fluid performance standards may vary significantly.

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The fluids don't vary significantly - yes they do vary, but significantly implies at least an order of magnitude.

 

[Matt89]

Critic;

Your line of reasoning seems sound to me. I've taken a more pragmatic approach...if it works, 'do it'.

I've used Amsoil ATF in a 2003 Honda Odyssey and now in 2006 Civic and CRV, and it works fine. Absolutely no noticeable change to shifting etc when I did 2x drain/fill with the Amsoil ATF.

Whether an ATF is optimized for one application or another seems not to matter when you actually turn the key, put the car in gear and drive. If it works when you try it, it works.

 

[Steelers]

I suspect these various fluids are not as different as we think. Many local shops put Amsoil ATF in every car that comes in requesting a service. I asked the owner of one about putting Amsoil in a Honda/Acura transmission he said they've doing it for years and never had a problem or complaint about shift quality. Of course it also keeps their inventory requirement low, one kind of transmission oil instead of 4 or 5 or more. I believe you can never go wrong using Honda or Toyota specific fluid but it is not necessary. Also, I believe that the Amsoil ATF, while expensive, is superior to the manurfacture's own fluid.

 

[kanling]

I think, for the price of Amsoil, I would prefer a dedicated fluid rather than a "one size fits all". Amsoil is marketed as a "no compromise" product, but there are obviously compromiseds going on with their ATF to make it work for everybody.

If they made a pure Type IV fluid, I would take it in a minute.

 

[keith]

With all other things being equal, you will be better off with a fluid that is specific to the transmission rather than a "one size fits all" compromise.

The transmission isn't cheap to replace, so why add extra risk and use an unapproved fluid? I would have to be totally sold on the alternative fluid - lots of real test data showing longer fluid life, reduced clutch pack wear, and other meaningful results.

 

[harry j]

Amsoil ATF works great in my '93 Civic transmission, 65,000 miles so far with no problems. I dump 3 qts every so often to check the fluids condition, the magnetic drain plug shows very little if any wear materials, the fluid is a bright red and the temperature is such that you can put your finger in it as it drains. 183,000 miles on the original automatic transmission.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

I put in the Amsoil ATF in my car which requires the typical Dexron-III/Mercon or Mercon V (there have been varying opinions on which for mine), but it has made a night and day difference. Amsoil guarantees their fluid, if you use it in a suitable application, then you are safe against a fluid related failure, unless you are neglegent in filling and maintaining a proper level.

As Pablo has said many times, they do plenty of testing before making a recommendation. Every company does this to an extent, it's just that Amsoil targets a broader range of ATF fluid types. This seems to spook a bunch of people into thinking "that's impossible," which is why concerns like this occur, and I completely understand. As many people that are using the ATF, and I have yet to hear of any complaining about it's performance, or any failure occuring due to the fluid being "incorrect."

 

[bmwtechguy]

It's interesting to note that Amsoil Universal ATF was one of the, if not the first to have so many specs on their bottle as "suitable for" Dex III, Mercon and Mercon V, ATF+3, ATF+4, and several others. Many complained and said that no one fluid could work well in so many applications, but many people used it and have had good results. I suspect a few people along the way were not satisfied with this fluid for one reason or another, but overall, those that have used it have been satisfied, including myself. Now, it seems that there are a lot more of these multi-purpose fluids out there in the marketplace, including Motorcraft itself which has a Mercon/ Mercon V fluid that contradicts all the warnings from Ford about using such a fluid several years back. Another fluid I've seen recently is Maxlife ATF DexIII Mercon which has most of the same specs on the back of the bottle as Amsoil. (Valvoline also has single spec products like their new ATF+4 fully synthetic. So they have something for everyone!) I've even seen Supertech Multi-vehicle ATF with similar specs to the Amsoil.

For me, I would use the manufacturer's product or similarly licensed fluid during the warranty period, then use whatever you are comfortable with afterwards, whether single spec licensed, or a high quality universal product. I tend to use the universal fluid to simplify number of fluids on hand, and it has always worked well for me.