Our 2015 Sienna is the first vehicle I've ever owned that never requires the transmission fluid to be changed. It doesn't even have a dipstick. I'm not really comfortable with this notion, as I am still under the impression that ALL fluids eventually go bad and need to be changed. The vehicle does have a lifetime drivetrain warranty, so I guess if the transmission ever does go bad because of the fluid, it'll be on their dime to fix it. Still, is this uneasy feeling of mine just wrong, or is there some merit to it?
Completely sealed, never-change-the-fluid trannies
- Thread starter grampi
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There must be a drain plug similar to a manual transmission!
Prolly from the filler hole similar to a manual underneath? Im guessing, but I read somewhere that is how they do it?
4wd
$50 site donor 2026
I don't even like Ford saying 150k or others 100k - we get to choose a time & place for maintenance - not so with a break down
Any fine print around "lifetime" ?
Any fine print around "lifetime" ?
I've seen the WS ATF last very well since its 2004 debut with minimal failures. Worked for Toyota/Lexus dealers for many years & most the failures I saw were either due to drain & fills with incorrect fluid, or under filled due to the complicated fluid level check procedure. You'll be fine not changing it. If you decide to change it, make sure the fluid level is corrected using Toyota Techstream software, fluid detection mode, & learned memory reset. Aftermarket scantools cannot short pins in the DLC3 connector to allow you to enter fluid detection mode correctly.
See link below
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/345
I have a 2010 Avalon with no dipstick that I have changed three times.
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/345
I have a 2010 Avalon with no dipstick that I have changed three times.
This subject has been covered a thousand times here. Do a search
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...456.cjV40XSze9c
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...456.cjV40XSze9c
Automatic transmissions are probably the most robust complex assembly on a vehicle, as well as being the most ignored component on a vehicle. Scrap yards are full of high-mileage junked vehicles which have never seen an ATF change, yet transmission failure isn't what sent most of the clunkers to their final resting place.
Also, a lot of experienced transmission mechanics will tell you that changing the fluid in a long-neglected transmission will often cause problems, and it's best to leave the old fluid in there and keep running the old scow as is.
With the two real-world observations above in mind, I think this trend towards sealed transmissions and lifetime ATF is a case of manufacturers coming to grips with reality.
Also, a lot of experienced transmission mechanics will tell you that changing the fluid in a long-neglected transmission will often cause problems, and it's best to leave the old fluid in there and keep running the old scow as is.
With the two real-world observations above in mind, I think this trend towards sealed transmissions and lifetime ATF is a case of manufacturers coming to grips with reality.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Our 2015 Sienna is the first vehicle I've ever owned that never requires the transmission fluid to be changed. It doesn't even have a dipstick. I'm not really comfortable with this notion, as I am still under the impression that ALL fluids eventually go bad and need to be changed. The vehicle does have a lifetime drivetrain warranty, so I guess if the transmission ever does go bad because of the fluid, it'll be on their dime to fix it. Still, is this uneasy feeling of mine just wrong, or is there some merit to it?
Transmission fluid is pretty robust these days. Many agree that "stop and go" traffic is severe service. I would suggest changing the fluid at 50,000 miles. Anything else is overkill IMHO. But there is pervasive "over maintenance" going on here on this board.
Our 2015 Sienna is the first vehicle I've ever owned that never requires the transmission fluid to be changed. It doesn't even have a dipstick. I'm not really comfortable with this notion, as I am still under the impression that ALL fluids eventually go bad and need to be changed. The vehicle does have a lifetime drivetrain warranty, so I guess if the transmission ever does go bad because of the fluid, it'll be on their dime to fix it. Still, is this uneasy feeling of mine just wrong, or is there some merit to it?
Transmission fluid is pretty robust these days. Many agree that "stop and go" traffic is severe service. I would suggest changing the fluid at 50,000 miles. Anything else is overkill IMHO. But there is pervasive "over maintenance" going on here on this board.
I have done 7 complete WS atf changes on 2 Toyotas and 2 Lexus ES350's with no ill effects. I use a cooler line flush and fill through the trans fill hole on the back near the drivers side front wheel. To get the fluid expansion rate close I use an IR thermometer and when the trans pan hits 113F pull the plug and let it drain to a trickle and reinstall the plug. I R&R the WS ATF every 50k. It takes 12 quarts to do a complete exchange and the vehicle must be completely level to get it right.
No problems. The hard part is taking the plastic underbody panel off. I always drain fill the engine coolant at the same interval since the radiator drain is right next to the cooler lines.
BTW, your dealer will flush it for you if you want. Mine will do it for $250. The first time you flush it the atf comes out almost black. After that not so much. So I would do it at least once at 50k.
No problems. The hard part is taking the plastic underbody panel off. I always drain fill the engine coolant at the same interval since the radiator drain is right next to the cooler lines.
BTW, your dealer will flush it for you if you want. Mine will do it for $250. The first time you flush it the atf comes out almost black. After that not so much. So I would do it at least once at 50k.
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Making a sealed never change the fluid transmission work is one of the advantages of a Prius. It's not a CVT, it's a planetary transmission that never shifts from one gear to the next, it always in gear and has no reverse. Our company Prius has 300K+ miles of hard driving and the transmission is working just fine on the factory fill.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Our 2015 Sienna is the first vehicle I've ever owned that never requires the transmission fluid to be changed. It doesn't even have a dipstick. I'm not really comfortable with this notion, as I am still under the impression that ALL fluids eventually go bad and need to be changed. The vehicle does have a lifetime drivetrain warranty, so I guess if the transmission ever does go bad because of the fluid, it'll be on their dime to fix it. Still, is this uneasy feeling of mine just wrong, or is there some merit to it?
lifetime warranty ends when the drivetrain dies... it's not warranted against wear and tear ONLY errors in fabrication.
Our 2015 Sienna is the first vehicle I've ever owned that never requires the transmission fluid to be changed. It doesn't even have a dipstick. I'm not really comfortable with this notion, as I am still under the impression that ALL fluids eventually go bad and need to be changed. The vehicle does have a lifetime drivetrain warranty, so I guess if the transmission ever does go bad because of the fluid, it'll be on their dime to fix it. Still, is this uneasy feeling of mine just wrong, or is there some merit to it?
lifetime warranty ends when the drivetrain dies... it's not warranted against wear and tear ONLY errors in fabrication.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
If it's truly a sealed transmission that would be a deal breaker for me. When I was in the market that was one of the things that turned me off the Camry and Corolla.
I wouldn't be happy with it either.
If it's truly a sealed transmission that would be a deal breaker for me. When I was in the market that was one of the things that turned me off the Camry and Corolla.
I wouldn't be happy with it either.
No such thing as a "sealed" transmission. They ALL have drain and fill plugs or method for servicing, even the Prius.
The manufacturer may not care if you service it, and in that case they use the word "sealed." My transmission says "lifetime fill" right on the side, but my owners manual says "check fluid level" every 50k. The manufacturer, ZF, recommends a service every 50K. VW goes on to say in their service requirements for the car (factory repair materials, not my owners manual) to service the transmission every 50k. So you see there is a lot of room for misinterpretation and confusion of data.
If you ask your mechanic for a transmission service and they refuse to do it, find a different mechanic.
The manufacturer may not care if you service it, and in that case they use the word "sealed." My transmission says "lifetime fill" right on the side, but my owners manual says "check fluid level" every 50k. The manufacturer, ZF, recommends a service every 50K. VW goes on to say in their service requirements for the car (factory repair materials, not my owners manual) to service the transmission every 50k. So you see there is a lot of room for misinterpretation and confusion of data.
If you ask your mechanic for a transmission service and they refuse to do it, find a different mechanic.
My Camry AT isn't sealed. There is some overly complicate way to drain/refill the transmission you can see how to do it on youtube.
I think the AT on my Rav4 is going to be what kills it and it's going to fail catastrophically. But I'm not touching the lifetime fluid again. Changed out 3 quarts over its life and that is that.
I might have the dealer change the ATF on my Camry at 50k miles. We'll see if I'm still planning to keep it until 300k miles at that point and go from there.
If you drive it nicely, you should be able to get 200k+ miles on the Sienna factory fill no problem.
I think the AT on my Rav4 is going to be what kills it and it's going to fail catastrophically. But I'm not touching the lifetime fluid again. Changed out 3 quarts over its life and that is that.
I might have the dealer change the ATF on my Camry at 50k miles. We'll see if I'm still planning to keep it until 300k miles at that point and go from there.
If you drive it nicely, you should be able to get 200k+ miles on the Sienna factory fill no problem.
Here's a video from Weber State University on how to check the level of a Toyota transmission without a dipstick. Don't worry the video is less than 35 minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcecuGzTDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcecuGzTDg
The WS fluid in an 2004 Lexus LS430 I've recently serviced was bone nasty for a fluid that had less than 100,000mi on it. Trying to be "completely sealed" the fill/drain ports were hidden by a plastic access panel (nice try lexus.) I used a funnel with a long clear tube down the fill port so I can fill the transmission from the engine bay instead of using a hand pump. The pan also wasn't completely sealed with pink RTV (like all Toyota transmissions) so changing the pan gasket and filter was way too easy.
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I have done a few of these transmissions and it is very difficult to get the fluid level set correctly if you follow the factory procedure. The most recent TSB specified a special service tool (the one referenced in the Weber state video) and that is probably your best bet. Simply measuring the amount drained and refilling with the same will probably get you in trouble due to the fluid expansion that takes place (depending on the temp).
I would not touch the transmission if possible. As mehullica says, these transmissions will last a long time on the factory fill.
I would not touch the transmission if possible. As mehullica says, these transmissions will last a long time on the factory fill.
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