Toyota specialty shop or dealer?

[diyjake]

I would to change the transmission fluid in my 2014 Toyota Sienna, currently at 60k miles but my Sienna doesn't have a dipstick and I don't have a scan tool capable of reading transmission temps so I would really like to find a toyota specialty shop that has experience with these so called "sealed transmission". Does anyone know of a good quality shop on the Southeast PA area? Or should I just take it to the dealer?

I know most shops offer transmission fluid change but they use a machine to exchange the fluid not a drain and fill. I was always told that the fluid exchange method is bad for the transmissions or is that not true with modern cars?

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

I have an 2011 sienna same power train though. I just drained and filled it on my own, without the scanner. Let the van sit so fluid wasn't hot, drained it and filled what came out. I didn't have issues before and I don't have issues after. Just make sure you aren't draining hot/cold fluid and measuring it since the new fluid isn't hot/cold.

The drain has an insert in it so after the plug is removed, a plastic insert still needs to be removed to drain. The fill is on the wheel well side of the case and was easy to fill with a funnel.

 

[Donald]

The exchange method changes 95% of the fluid. The drain & fill does 33% roughly. The exchange method is fine and done by a shop that knows what they are doing you will be all set. No need for a dealer. I would however use a name brand ATF that specs your transmission or OEM ATF. Watch out for a place that uses a generic ATF and adds a magic potion to make it perfect for your transmission.

I myself would go to a indy mechanic over a dealer or Jiffy Lube.

 

[diyjake]

Originally Posted by t1snwrbrdr12
I have an 2011 sienna same power train though. I just drained and filled it on my own, without the scanner. Let the van sit so fluid wasn't hot, drained it and filled what came out. I didn't have issues before and I don't have issues after. Just make sure you aren't draining hot/cold fluid and measuring it since the new fluid isn't hot/cold.

The drain has an insert in it so after the plug is removed, a plastic insert still needs to be removed to drain. The fill is on the wheel well side of the case and was easy to fill with a funnel.


I don't feel comfortable doing it this way, not very accurate.

Originally Posted by Donald
The exchange method changes 95% of the fluid. The drain & fill does 33% roughly. The exchange method is fine and done by a shop that knows what they are doing you will be all set. No need for a dealer. I would however use a name brand ATF that specs your transmission or OEM ATF. Watch out for a place that uses a generic ATF and adds a magic potion to make it perfect for your transmission.

I myself would go to a indy mechanic over a dealer or Jiffy Lube.


Jiffy Lube is not even an option that I would ever consider. I do want to go to a indy shop, I just have to find one that I can trust since I always do my own repairs and don't use shops.

 

[supton]

Have you checked out the cheapo Techstream on Ebay? They used to only work on WinXP laptops but otherwise could read everything in the car.

Also, I wonder if those ELM327 dongles with the Torq app would read trans temp. Might be worth a google search. That bluetooth dongle is worth keeping around. Might have to pay the $5 for the software in order to read trans temp, but it'd be worth it.

Have you done a search on the forums? I know for my Tundra there is a way to do this without any reader. You use a paperclip to short a couple of the OBDII pins together. Something like that... But have you checked out any DIY's for this yet?

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by diyjake
I don't feel comfortable doing it this way, not very accurate.
It's just as accurate as what the factory filled it to. Yes, doing it this way you don't know if the factory-filled level is high, low, or right where it needs to be but if you remove 3.65 quarts and replace 3.65 quarts (made-up example numbers), you're right where you were before you did the drain and fill.

 

[2heeldrive]

I changed the transmission oil in my Toyota without the tool.

I simply measured the amount of fluid that came out and put the same amount back in. All is well. As long as the factory put the right amount in, I'm good to go.

Back in the day when we had dipsticks for the transmission, there was an allowable range of plus or minus 16 oz. I don't know why it would be different now.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Originally Posted by diyjake
Originally Posted by t1snwrbrdr12
I have an 2011 sienna same power train though. I just drained and filled it on my own, without the scanner. Let the van sit so fluid wasn't hot, drained it and filled what came out. I didn't have issues before and I don't have issues after. Just make sure you aren't draining hot/cold fluid and measuring it since the new fluid isn't hot/cold.

The drain has an insert in it so after the plug is removed, a plastic insert still needs to be removed to drain. The fill is on the wheel well side of the case and was easy to fill with a funnel.


I don't feel comfortable doing it this way, not very accurate.

Originally Posted by Donald
The exchange method changes 95% of the fluid. The drain & fill does 33% roughly. The exchange method is fine and done by a shop that knows what they are doing you will be all set. No need for a dealer. I would however use a name brand ATF that specs your transmission or OEM ATF. Watch out for a place that uses a generic ATF and adds a magic potion to make it perfect for your transmission.

I myself would go to a indy mechanic over a dealer or Jiffy Lube.


Jiffy Lube is not even an option that I would ever consider. I do want to go to a indy shop, I just have to find one that I can trust since I always do my own repairs and don't use shops.


If you're off an ounce for few I highly doubt you would ever notice it nor would it waste your transmission. If you have no issues and haven't leaked any fluid, you are going to fill it back up correctly. But no big deal, just hate to see someone throw away that money for fear of not doing it "by the books instructions."

I guarantee that many of the techs, although may have acces and knowledge of the correct way to do your trans fluid level check, simply aren't going to do it with a scanner etc. they'll be flat rate and just want it out of their hair ASAP.

 

[Gebo]

To answer your question, I'd ask around and find a Toyota Specialty shop.

To give you my opinion as I take care of 3 Toyotas with sealed transmissions, I would make sure transmission fluid is cold. Overnight sitting. Drain out what you can and measure how much came out. Then add back exactly what you removed. Of course, this is assuming the factory added the correct amount which should be a very comfortable assumption.

What I did wrong before I knew better was drain the hot ATF which had expanded. Think about the dip stick transmissions and how much difference there is between the cold marks and the hot marks. ATF really expands as it heats up. I drained out hot and replaced with cold. I overfilled.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by t1snwrbrdr12

I guarantee that many of the techs, although may have acces and knowledge of the correct way to do your trans fluid level check, simply aren't going to do it with a scanner etc. they'll be flat rate and just want it out of their hair ASAP.


It's nice to know you understand how some flat rate employee's work....LOL
Notice I said "some."

I'm in agreement with you just in case someone reads this and thinks I am trying to be a smart aleck. Remember, my son-in-law works in a Honda Dealership.

Sometimes it's like "Git 'er done!'

 

[slacktide_bitog]

The "sealed" transmission still has a dipstick tube and a drain plug. All you have to do is find the fill tube, open it, drain the fluid and measure how much comes out. Then, simply refill with the same amount you drained

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Originally Posted by Gebo
Originally Posted by t1snwrbrdr12

I guarantee that many of the techs, although may have acces and knowledge of the correct way to do your trans fluid level check, simply aren't going to do it with a scanner etc. they'll be flat rate and just want it out of their hair ASAP.


It's nice to know you understand how some flat rate employee's work....LOL
Notice I said "some."

I'm in agreement with you just in case someone reads this and thinks I am trying to be a smart aleck. Remember, my son-in-law works in a Honda Dealership.

Sometimes it's like "Git 'er done!'



I was a flat rate tech for quite awhile when Chrysler came out with vehicles without dipsticks. Regardless of what the job is, how simple it is, how easy the $ is to be made, some techs will shortcut it as much as possible.

 

[KrisZ]

I would also drain cold and fill up the same amount and call it day.

What I find fascinating with people worrying that the transmission wasn't filled up correctly at the factory, or since the last fluid change, is that they never had that worry during the miles they drove the vehicle. In this case 60k miles was put in on the vehicle and the ATF, but the issue of improperly filled AT is only a concern now.
Quite interesting to me.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by supton

Also, I wonder if those ELM327 dongles with the Torq app would read trans temp. Might be worth a google search. That bluetooth dongle is worth keeping around. Might have to pay the $5 for the software in order to read trans temp, but it'd be worth it.

Have you done a search on the forums? I know for my Tundra there is a way to do this without any reader. You use a paperclip to short a couple of the OBDII pins together. Something like that... But have you checked out any DIY's for this yet?

There is a $06 PID string for AT temp on Toyota for Torque, I can't remember if off the top of my head. There is also a app on the Google Play store for Toyota OBD-II written by a Russian dude that's a crude adaptation.

There is a way to bridge the TC1 and E1 pins in the OBD-II connector and watching the D light in the instrument cluster to get the ATF temp, the light turns on solid when you're in range and it blinks quickly when the temp is too hot. I've done that on an LS430 with the 6-speed. I had The Critic hookup his Autel Maxsys Elite to doublecheck the fluid level, and I was almost on target. I was off by 2-3oz.

 

[diyjake]

Originally Posted by supton
Have you checked out the cheapo Techstream on Ebay? They used to only work on WinXP laptops but otherwise could read everything in the car.

Also, I wonder if those ELM327 dongles with the Torq app would read trans temp. Might be worth a google search. That bluetooth dongle is worth keeping around. Might have to pay the $5 for the software in order to read trans temp, but it'd be worth it.

Have you done a search on the forums? I know for my Tundra there is a way to do this without any reader. You use a paperclip to short a couple of the OBDII pins together. Something like that... But have you checked out any DIY's for this yet?


I have one of these dongles and a torque app but it doesn't read toyota's transmission temp. I just thought if I could find a shop that could do it for around $100-150 why not have then do it but it really is hard to find a honest shop.

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by diyjake
I don't feel comfortable doing it this way, not very accurate.
It's just as accurate as what the factory filled it to. Yes, doing it this way you don't know if the factory-filled level is high, low, or right where it needs to be but if you remove 3.65 quarts and replace 3.65 quarts (made-up example numbers), you're right where you were before you did the drain and fill.


I guess this would work just from all diy's I saw for 2010+ toyota's it calls for scan tool and everyone says these WS / Fuel Efficient type fluids are very picky about the fluid level.

Originally Posted by Gebo
To answer your question, I'd ask around and find a Toyota Specialty shop.

To give you my opinion as I take care of 3 Toyotas with sealed transmissions, I would make sure transmission fluid is cold. Overnight sitting. Drain out what you can and measure how much came out. Then add back exactly what you removed. Of course, this is assuming the factory added the correct amount which should be a very comfortable assumption.

What I did wrong before I knew better was drain the hot ATF which had expanded. Think about the dip stick transmissions and how much difference there is between the cold marks and the hot marks. ATF really expands as it heats up. I drained out hot and replaced with cold. I overfilled.


I heard guys say drain when it's hot to get the most fluid to come out but the cold option does make sense if working without a scanner.

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
The "sealed" transmission still has a dipstick tube and a drain plug. All you have to do is find the fill tube, open it, drain the fluid and measure how much comes out. Then, simply refill with the same amount you drained

Sienna's do have a drain and fill hole but not an option for a dipstick.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
What I find fascinating with people worrying that the transmission wasn't filled up correctly at the factory, or since the last fluid change, is that they never had that worry during the miles they drove the vehicle. In this case 60k miles was put in on the vehicle and the ATF, but the issue of improperly filled AT is only a concern now.
Quite interesting to me.

"Like"

To add to this, if the ATF was changed previously and hopefully filled to the "proper" level, draining the fluid and replacing it with the same amount is perfectly accurate unless add'l fluid was added in between when not necessary, it leaks, someone drained fluid for no good reason, etc.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by diyjake

I have one of these dongles and a torque app but it doesn't read toyota's transmission temp. I just thought if I could find a shop that could do it for around $100-150 why not have then do it but it really is hard to find a honest shop.

I suppose you could do the fluid change yourself and then just pay someone to set the fluid level for you.

I doubt you'll find anyone who is willing to do the level check for less than 1/2 hour labor though. Most will want an hour. It is a huge pain to get the fluid pumper setup.

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by KrisZ
What I find fascinating with people worrying that the transmission wasn't filled up correctly at the factory, or since the last fluid change, is that they never had that worry during the miles they drove the vehicle. In this case 60k miles was put in on the vehicle and the ATF, but the issue of improperly filled AT is only a concern now.
Quite interesting to me.

"Like"

To add to this, if the ATF was changed previously and hopefully filled to the "proper" level, draining the fluid and replacing it with the same amount is perfectly accurate unless add'l fluid was added in between when not necessary, it leaks, someone drained fluid for no good reason, etc.

There are just too many variables. But in all honesty, the fluid level from the factory (at least on the no dipstick models) is usually accurate as long as no one has messed with it before. But if someone has removed a radiator at any point (and your model has a heat exchanger), the fluid level could be off.

I have only ran into "incorrect" fluid level from the factory on Honda's. Recently had a CRV that was way overfilled from the factory. Or V6 auto trans that were 1/2 qt low.

 

[Dan55]

Jake, I am in a similar situation,2016 Lexus NX 61k, am planning on a fluid change soon. I have Techstream but am not going to use it. Drain and fill at room temp with Oem type fluid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M94B6V...3d6-2590-11e9-b2b2-83751d0b2340&th=1

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by diyjake
I have one of these dongles and a torque app but it doesn't read toyota's transmission temp. I just thought if I could find a shop that could do it for around $100-150 why not have then do it but it really is hard to find a honest shop.
They might have such a tool and might tell you they'll use it but when a different tech does the work, how will you be certain he/she didn't just replace the same amount that came out ?

Originally Posted by diyjake
I guess this would work just from all diy's I saw for 2010+ toyota's it calls for scan tool and everyone says these WS / Fuel Efficient type fluids are very picky about the fluid level.
Don't overthink this. If you remove 'x' amount and replace it with 'x' amount, you are back to square one.

Originally Posted by diyjake
I heard guys say drain when it's hot to get the most fluid to come out but the cold option does make sense if working without a scanner.
Easy - drain it hot and let it cool. Heck, get it hot and let it drain for an hour, 2 hours, etc. You'll get an add'l 2.7 ounces out by waiting hours and it will also cool down in the process. Then you measure that amount. My experience: It doesn't expand enough to matter. I tried this twice with two different cars. On one car, I use a scan tool and got the ATF up to 190º F while driving it, drove home and up on the ramps. Within 15 minutes I had it drained and transferred to a bottle with measurement markings. I let it cool for 90+ minutes. It decreased in temperature to between 75-80º F and guess how much it decreased in volume ? None.

 

[diyjake]

Originally Posted by Dan55
Jake, I am in a similar situation,2016 Lexus NX 61k, am planning on a fluid change soon. I have Techstream but am not going to use it. Drain and fill at room temp with Oem type fluid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M94B6V...3d6-2590-11e9-b2b2-83751d0b2340&th=1


If I decide to attack this myself I would go with Amsoil Fuel Efficient ATF.