Compact florescents and SLOW startup

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I have CFL pretty much everywhere in the house now. Many different types. I have seen a lowering in my electricty bill!

Some are instant on, and I thought all were until I bought a batch of the director type for the kicthen ceiling cans. Those sure are slow. On with a little flash then they just edge up to brightness. Good when you stumble into the kitchen well before the crack of dawn. Compared to the 7 or 9 lamps they replaced, they save some serious juice!

I have an instant on CFL in the laundry room and the switch is a heat movement sensor - I don't predict a long life for this bulb - the thing is on and off constantly.
 
Our freezer and washer/dryer are in the basement. There are 6 lights in the basement and I changed 5 over to CF. I left the light over the freezer incandescent as often Mama Bear goes down and picks something out of the freezer and immediately goes back upstairs. She doesn't have to wait for the CF's to "come to life" to pick a steak out of the freezer.
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This mightn't be an issue with electronic ballasts but one should always have an incandescent bulb around motorized machinery. The 60 Hz flicker coincides with the RPM of the spinning blade or whatever and makes it look like it's standing still. :eek:

I still have regular spots in my outdoor motion activated lights. It hasn't been made crystal clear that compact flourescents would be acceptable to whatever controls power... as I feel a transistor is involved it could do "dimming" or other voodoo that would ruin the bulb. Not to mention the constant on-off would be less than optimal. Of course I have the motion detectors to save energy and light pollution.

My state gives a $2 instant rebate off the things, bringing them down to a buck a bulb sometimes. They don't seem to check for the addresses on the coupons... hand them off to the cashier and that's it.

I just ripped OUT a 3 way dimmer, likely expensive, and got CFL spots for recessed ceiling fixtures. Like the idea of less heat in the ceiling plus it gives an "art gallery" feel.

Run a woodstove in the "center" of the house and sometimes outer rooms are around 50'F. Even at this moderate temperature I've noticed slow starting on modern, albeit cheap, bulbs.
 
Do CF's use more power on start-up like the tubes? if so how much do they use, and is there a time interval under which it would be more economical to use an incandescent?
 
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Question: Anybody know how they compare to regular bulbs heatwise?




Check the power consumption rating on the bulb; that's how much heat they're giving off. It's usually about 1/4 that of an incandescent.
 
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Question: Anybody know how they compare to regular bulbs heatwise?




Check the power consumption rating on the bulb; that's how much heat they're giving off. It's usually about 1/4 that of an incandescent.




That's exatly what I was told at a lighting siminar. wattage = heat so a 14w bulb puts out roughly 1/7 the heat of the 100 watt bulb it replaces.
 
If you keep all the light in your house, eg curtains are closed, it all eventually turns into heat as it strikes objects.

Through a window, lights radiate some heat outward.

Anyone with electric heat would be goofy to put CFLs in...
 
I use a CFL bulb in my drop light. It's much less sensitive to vibration, and it produces much less heat, which is nice in those situations where you have the droplight right next to your face...
 
We bought some CF lights at Sams and the only problem so far that I have seen is that it takes a second for the light to come on. They don't look as nice in a fixture with a short globe on it, but if the globe is long enough to cover it then I think it still is looking OK.
 
Most of the CFL bulbs around here are GE's..they seem to last about as long as GE said they would. On the other hand, I purchased some "Lights of America" 'candle flame' shaped lights for the chandelier and globe shaped ones for the bathroom fixures from Wal-Mart. These (covered) lights take a long time to warm up - especially the 'flame shaped' ones for the hanging fixures..And have died quick deaths! I will not purchase them again.
 
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That's exatly what I was told at a lighting siminar. wattage = heat so a 14w bulb puts out roughly 1/7 the heat of the 100 watt bulb it replaces.




So what you huys are saying is that 14W CFL will produce the same heat as a 14W incandescent. Can that be true?

Bulbs consume electricity and in turn produce heat and light. I thought the technolgy (excited gas vs filament) used determinded this ratio of light/heat??
 
I worked for an electric supplies wholesaler for a number of years and had extensive training in lighting.

One of the issues with a switch from incandescent to compact fluorescent lamps is that traditional light bulbs have been rated using the wrong units for a century. Watts are a unit of heat, not light output. The unit for light output is lumens. Efficiency is measured in lumens per watt (lum/W).

Under the old tungsten filament technology in plain old incandescent lamps, much higher heat output was necessary to get greater light output. Fluorescent lamps have much better lum/W efficiency, so a fluorescent lamp that produces only 14 W of heat produces about the same number of lumens as a 60 W incandescent. Your power usage is based on watts, by the way. The more wattage (heat) you can save, the more you save directly on your electric bill.

Compact fluorescents (CFs) can be slow to start in cool areas. Most are meant for use only indoors, not outdoors. In general, the ballast is not rated for starting the bulb reliably below 50 degrees F (10 deg C). However, a CF that's already on will usually stay on if the temperature drops below 50 F or if it does manage to start at the lower temperature. This is a common issue with fluorescent ballasts in general, not just those incorporated into CFs. Traditional fluorescents require ballasts rated for low temperatures to be able to start outdoors in cool weather.

Therefore, if your basement is cool year round, you have left the house unheated in cold weather for a while, or you are using a light in an unheated shed or other outbuilding, a CF in these spots will be slow to start—if it will start.

You can possibly get away with using a CF outdoors in a protected fixture if you leave it on 24/7 in cold weather. We do this here. You don't want the CF to get damp, obviously, but you do need to allow the heat it generates to dissipate. Use caution and stick with an incandescent lamp if in doubt.

My experience with all lamps is that you get what you pay for, and cheaper is not normally better. I tried the cheapie CFs from Wally's World too and had the same results as some of you report, so now I stick with GE or another known brand.

Most fluorescents, CFs or traditional, are not rated for use in a dimmer system. They can overheat, blow, or simply not function. I don't know why some of you were unable to get certain CFs to start with the dimmer at 100%, except that most dimmers today are electronic and perhaps they inject noise into the circuit or modify the AC waveform, interfering with the CF ballast.

Hope my ramblings help.
 
The lumens/watt ratio of a CFL to a incandescent seems to be close to 1/4.5 (9W/40W, 13W/60W). Flourescent tubes running off a high-efficiency ballast are probably the ones that are 1/7. It's likely due to cost and packaging considerations that CFLs are not as efficient as those.

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So what you huys are saying is that 14W CFL will produce the same heat as a 14W incandescent. Can that be true?




Yes, but the incandescent will be dimmer (less lumens/watt, as ekrampitzjr explained). Most of the electrical energy powering a bulb is converted to heat within the bulb assembly. The filament of an incandescent operates at a very high temperature, and the ballast of a CFL is the warm part of those bulbs. As eljefino mentioned, some of the energy is also in the light. Lower-wavelength (red) light is higher energy, and incandescents produce more of that and feel warmer because of it.

All of the CFLs I have are Globe and they've been very reliable; only 1 failure in 5 years, and I think I had nicked that one in the laundry room with something I was carrying. They recalled a batch a few years back, but gave me two new ones for every one I turned in! We even use them for the 8 lights recessed in the roof overhangs around the house. Those ones are a 13W spiral bulb within a glass housing, so they look good and are flush with the overhang. Since they're left on all night, incandescents would waste a lot of energy. The package said the CFLs were good to -10C (14F), so I had initially planned on swapping them out in the winter, but they work fine in cold weather. At -40F, they take about 30 seconds to "turn on" (they are very dim initially), and then another 5 to 10 minutes to reach full brightness. They're turned on every evening and turned off every morning, and after two years they're still going strong. I don't think they mind the cold. It may even be easier on them.
 
Is it safe to run one of these compact fluorescent bulbs all the time? In my laundry room I've got one of those light fixtures which you turn on and off with a chain, well, it used to be that way anyhow. I pulled on the chain last week and it broke off at the top, so the light is always on now, with no way to shut it off. So I figured I'd just replace the conventional bulb with a CF one since they don't get as hot. But can they really stay on all the time and not overheat?
 
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Those chainpull bulb bases are dirt cheap, Patman. I'm sure you could spring for a new one.
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The problem is that I'm not handy at all, and I'm lazy too, so that's a deadly combination whenever there is stuff to be fixed around my house.
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