Commerical jets dump fuel on landing?

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Originally Posted By: zulu
Trust me, they were not "dumping" fuel so much as they were literally spitting it out the back of their terribly in-efficient low bypass turbojets. In the age of 707s, 727s, DC-9s, and early 737s, their engines were HORRIBLE at low altitudes. Actual fuel dumping occurs in the upper teens to low 20 thousands of feet unless the aircraft is an emergency upon departure still stuck in TRACON airspace. Even then, they only dump over VERY rural areas. I have never worked a fuel dump that wasn't an emergency, FWIW.

Interesting!
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I lived near JFK when I was growing up. We were in the final apporach of Runway 22 Left IIRC. They would dump fuel many times. You could see it floating in swimming pools and the houses that had gray roof shingles were badly discolored from it. Seems people and their health didn't mean much because not all of those landings were emergency landings.


Highly doubt it.... Airplanes cannot take off if they are going to be heavy on landing becuase of too much fuel. They know how much they have to burn in flight so it will be under landing weight by they time they get to the dest. We see this many times on full flight with an alt. airport included.
 
Originally Posted By: zulu
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I lived near JFK when I was growing up. We were in the final apporach of Runway 22 Left IIRC. They would dump fuel many times. You could see it floating in swimming pools and the houses that had gray roof shingles were badly discolored from it. Seems people and their health didn't mean much because not all of those landings were emergency landings.


Trust me, they were not "dumping" fuel so much as they were literally spitting it out the back of their terribly in-efficient low bypass turbojets. In the age of 707s, 727s, DC-9s, and early 737s, their engines were HORRIBLE at low altitudes. Actual fuel dumping occurs in the upper teens to low 20 thousands of feet unless the aircraft is an emergency upon departure still stuck in TRACON airspace. Even then, they only dump over VERY rural areas. I have never worked a fuel dump that wasn't an emergency, FWIW.


+1

jet exhaust soot.
 
Actually Answerbag has some good answers. I have answered some dog questions there. Why don't you post an oil question there and see what answers you get?
 
Originally Posted By: zulu
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I lived near JFK when I was growing up. We were in the final apporach of Runway 22 Left IIRC. They would dump fuel many times. You could see it floating in swimming pools and the houses that had gray roof shingles were badly discolored from it. Seems people and their health didn't mean much because not all of those landings were emergency landings.


Trust me, they were not "dumping" fuel so much as they were literally spitting it out the back of their terribly in-efficient low bypass turbojets. In the age of 707s, 727s, DC-9s, and early 737s, their engines were HORRIBLE at low altitudes. Actual fuel dumping occurs in the upper teens to low 20 thousands of feet unless the aircraft is an emergency upon departure still stuck in TRACON airspace. Even then, they only dump over VERY rural areas. I have never worked a fuel dump that wasn't an emergency, FWIW.


I trust you. I was told as a kid they'd dump fuel in emergencies. All I remember was the swimming pools and the gray roofs. The poor running engines debunks that myth then. I do remember a plane crashing just before landing at JFK near the Belt Parkway by Brookville Blvd as a teenager, IIRC no one walked away from that crash.
 
Was that crash in 1960 or 1975?

An Eastern 727 crashed in a thunderstorm one half mile from the runway on 24 June 1975. There were 11 survivors.

A TWA Constellation and United DC-8 had a midair over Staten Island on 16 December 1960. The Constellation went straight down into Miller Army Air Station and the DC-8 crashed in Brooklyn. No survivors and five killed on the ground.
 
The accident report lists 11 non-fatal, but one died more than one week later. That is how the NTSB counts these things.

http://aviation-safety.net/go.php?http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-reports/AAR76-08.pdf
 
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Originally Posted By: maximus
Originally Posted By: Silver02ex
sparkplug said:
stranger706 said:




Is that a departure clearance you jotted down? CRJ-200? Memphis to Pensacola?



Yep. We normally get the PDC, but since the ACARS was defer, i had to get it on voice like all the other Cessna's. haha
 
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Originally Posted By: Silver02ex
Highly doubt it.... Airplanes cannot take off if they are going to be heavy on landing becuase of too much fuel. They know how much they have to burn in flight so it will be under landing weight by they time they get to the dest. We see this many times on full flight with an alt. airport included.


But if they have to do emergency landing near take off, then they cannot exceed the landing weight during take off either. So that doesn't make sense.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Silver02ex
Highly doubt it.... Airplanes cannot take off if they are going to be heavy on landing becuase of too much fuel. They know how much they have to burn in flight so it will be under landing weight by they time they get to the dest. We see this many times on full flight with an alt. airport included.


But if they have to do emergency landing near take off, then they cannot exceed the landing weight during take off either. So that doesn't make sense.


The airplane is not going to get destroy if we land overweight. All we have to do is get the airplane checked out by maintenance after an overweight landing. I'm sure Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier etc. thought about this when they designed the airplane.
 
The Maximum Design Takeoff Weight or MDTOW is primarily determined by:

Structural Considerations - strength of wing, fuselage, and landing gear

Length of Runway - A short runway means the aircraft has less distance to accelerate to takeoff speed.

Runway wind direction

Airfield altitude (height above sea-level) - This affects air pressure which affects maximum engine power or thrust.

Air temperature - This affects air density which affects maximum engine power or thrust.

The Maximum Design Landing Weight or MDLW can be equal to or less than the MDTOW.

Generally speaking, the MDLW is going to less than the MDTOW because of fuel consumption by engines and APU whether on ground or during an aborted takeoff.
 
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Originally Posted By: cjcride
Good thing your coworker has no theory for the toilet waste.
We all have the odd know it all co worker


Don't eat the blue snow
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: cjcride
Good thing your coworker has no theory for the toilet waste.
We all have the odd know it all co worker


Don't eat the blue snow


Toilet water goes into the waste tank and water from the sinks exits the aircraft through a heated drain mast. On the 737 at least. Only way to get "blue snow" would have to be improperly closed filler cap/hatch on the toilet servicing panel. And which would be rather nasty!
crackmeup2.gif
I always check those..
 
Originally Posted By: sparkplug
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: cjcride
Good thing your coworker has no theory for the toilet waste.
We all have the odd know it all co worker


Don't eat the blue snow


Toilet water goes into the waste tank and water from the sinks exits the aircraft through a heated drain mast. On the 737 at least. Only way to get "blue snow" would have to be improperly closed filler cap/hatch on the toilet servicing panel. And which would be rather nasty!
crackmeup2.gif
I always check those..


Many years ago on a -20F night in MPLS I spent an extra 40 minutes waiting for the plane to push back because the external toilet drain cover (valve?) was frozen in the not fully closed position.

I was grateful that I was sitting in a nice warm aircraft being comped drinks instead of clearing the drain cap in -20F weather.
cheers3.gif
 
LOL woops. I can imagine the size of that blue icicle.

That's the water service door, the toilet service door is just before the water service door.

whiteice.jpg
 
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