Cleansing power - Syns vs High milleage

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wolf_06

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Some synthetics are known to have high cleansing agents, like Pennzoil Ultra - Platinum.

But what about high milleage oil? They have a lot of antiwear additives and seal conditionner, but do they clean deposits as well as synthetics?

Also, I would like to try high milleage, for the quality of the oil and of course the price that is lower than some over priced synthetics (that are group III oil) wich is kind of expensive at regular price.

I'm looking forward to use Valvoline Maxlife, QS Defy, and Castrol gtx HM. Which one got the advantage?
 
Cleaning ability is pretty similar. Syn have advantages like better cold flow properties, polarity , shear stability under high stress usually. They are also usually on the thinner side of the spectrum vs hi mileage oils. Out of the three you have listed, I am a huge fan of maxlife. Great add pack, proven track record and widely available. Now if only they made maxlife 0w20 syn blend .......... ;-)
 
Not sure why one would use a HM oil unless you needed it. My assumption is that most HM oils contain some additives for swelling seals and are towards the upper end of the viscosity index for their grade. All fine and well if you need them. But do you?

PU is one of the best easy (somewhat) oils to get at a decent price. You could do no better for $27 for a 5 QT jug. It has superior cleaning abilities.

I think too many people are using HM oils hoping they will cure all their engine woes. If your gaskets are the problem, replace them. If a hard to replace gasket is leaking, then first try an oil that conditions (almost all synthetics), it may get worse before it gets better. AutoRx is also worth a try. After all that if you still have a leak maybe you should try a HM oil. But no oil will cure a damaged seal or a seal against a damaged or rusted surface.
 
Originally Posted By: wolf_06
Some synthetics are known to have high cleansing agents, like Pennzoil Ultra - Platinum.

But what about high milleage oil? They have a lot of antiwear additives and seal conditionner, but do they clean deposits as well as synthetics?

Also, I would like to try high milleage, for the quality of the oil and of course the price that is lower than some over priced synthetics (that are group III oil) wich is kind of expensive at regular price.

I'm looking forward to use Valvoline Maxlife, QS Defy, and Castrol gtx HM. Which one got the advantage?


Boy, the marketing is sure working
wink.gif


Many (myself included) have had tremendous results with the cleaning and keeping clean properties of Mobil 1.... Long before Ultra or Platinum ever existed in the market.

Synthetic oils in general, particularly those designed for longer drain intervals, will hold a cleaning advantage over their more pedestrian counterparts. HM oils are designed to swell seals and are generally a little thicker to "cure" oil burning. Neither of those traits would indicate that they excel at cleaning.

An oil like M1 0w40, designed for the extended drain euro apps and high performance euro powerplants would be top of the heap for deposit control, cleanliness and durability. It has to be to meet the certifications it has. The same thing can be said for Pennzoil Euro 5w40, which has similar qualities.
 
Yes I consider HM oils to be largely a marketing gimmick.
They're heavier with lower VIs and have no better cleaning ability. Yes they do contain a seal swell agent which IMO is the only reason you would want to consider them.

If you're looking for an oil with good cleaning ability vs a dino then any synthetic will do the trick.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: wolf_06
Some synthetics are known to have high cleansing agents, like Pennzoil Ultra - Platinum.

But what about high milleage oil? They have a lot of antiwear additives and seal conditionner, but do they clean deposits as well as synthetics?

Also, I would like to try high milleage, for the quality of the oil and of course the price that is lower than some over priced synthetics (that are group III oil) wich is kind of expensive at regular price.

I'm looking forward to use Valvoline Maxlife, QS Defy, and Castrol gtx HM. Which one got the advantage?


Boy, the marketing is sure working
wink.gif


Many (myself included) have had tremendous results with the cleaning and keeping clean properties of Mobil 1.... Long before Ultra or Platinum ever existed in the market.

Synthetic oils in general, particularly those designed for longer drain intervals, will hold a cleaning advantage over their more pedestrian counterparts. HM oils are designed to swell seals and are generally a little thicker to "cure" oil burning. Neither of those traits would indicate that they excel at cleaning.

An oil like M1 0w40, designed for the extended drain euro apps and high performance euro powerplants would be top of the heap for deposit control, cleanliness and durability. It has to be to meet the certifications it has. The same thing can be said for Pennzoil Euro 5w40, which has similar qualities.


People on this forum have said that PU has cleaned even varnish which is not really a problem unless you want everything shiny clean.

I use PU in my gas vehicle but the engine is a reman with not enough miles for a UOA yet (but close). So I doubt it needs much cleaning.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
PU is one of the best easy (somewhat) oils to get at a decent price. You could do no better for $27 for a 5 QT jug. It has superior cleaning abilities.


Unfortunately with respect to the PU option, the OP is in Canada, and PU is darn near impossible to find, especially at $27 a jug. I would agree to stay away from most HM oils unless there's a reason to use them.

MaxLife and Mobil Super 2000 are SN/GF-5, so under warranty, they're fine. The MaxLife does well with leaks, at least in my experience. Defy would be a good choice for motors that could benefit from higher ZDDP levels.

Up here, a HM oil (at regular price) is only about $5 more for five quarts than its corresponding regular priced conventional. The regular price of the synthetic is close to double the price of the corresponding conventional.

A HM on rollback tends to around $19.99 here. A conventional on rollback will be around $10 to $14, give or take. PP on rollback can be had for around $24 or $25, which is quite reasonable, if you ask me.

If one is looking for cleaning an engine, short OCIs on conventional or HDEO or synthetic will all work. To keep things clean, stick to conservative oil changes on conventional. That being said, despite the marketing, we don't see a lot of sludged engines with M1, PP, or Syntec, assuming the OCI wasn't ridiculously long.
 
Try Valvoline Maxlife.
I have a UOA from one engine that shows it to be a very good oil, and in another application, it has greatly reduced leaks.
For US users, the FAR offers on Nextgen Maxlife are not to be missed.
In the real leaker (our old Impreza), GTX HM was actually worse than the PP I'd had in the car before.
On Maxlife, the leaks have slowed dramatically.
I've not tried Defy, although I have an FAR jug waiting to be used.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: wolf_06
Some synthetics are known to have high cleansing agents, like Pennzoil Ultra - Platinum.

But what about high milleage oil? They have a lot of antiwear additives and seal conditionner, but do they clean deposits as well as synthetics?

Also, I would like to try high milleage, for the quality of the oil and of course the price that is lower than some over priced synthetics (that are group III oil) wich is kind of expensive at regular price.

I'm looking forward to use Valvoline Maxlife, QS Defy, and Castrol gtx HM. Which one got the advantage?


Boy, the marketing is sure working
wink.gif


Many (myself included) have had tremendous results with the cleaning and keeping clean properties of Mobil 1.... Long before Ultra or Platinum ever existed in the market.

Synthetic oils in general, particularly those designed for longer drain intervals, will hold a cleaning advantage over their more pedestrian counterparts. HM oils are designed to swell seals and are generally a little thicker to "cure" oil burning. Neither of those traits would indicate that they excel at cleaning.

An oil like M1 0w40, designed for the extended drain euro apps and high performance euro powerplants would be top of the heap for deposit control, cleanliness and durability. It has to be to meet the certifications it has. The same thing can be said for Pennzoil Euro 5w40, which has similar qualities.


People on this forum have said that PU has cleaned even varnish which is not really a problem unless you want everything shiny clean.

I use PU in my gas vehicle but the engine is a reman with not enough miles for a UOA yet (but close). So I doubt it needs much cleaning.


I've seen no real evidence that it cleans any better than any of the other readily available synthetic oils.
 
I don't know how much the cleaning ability has changed over the years. But back in 2005 when I bought my used SAAB 9-5, I discovered right off that it was lightly sludged. I ran M1, then-new PP, Redline, Rotella T Synth-you name it. I even flushed with Berryman B-12 Chemtool. But none of them seemed to do anything compared to two bottles of then-hyped to the 'nth degree auto-rx. Even it didn't clean things up completely. But much more so than synths alone. I realize SN is supposed to up the cleaning game and everything. But folks were saying the same thing back then, as well. I've no doubt regular synth use will keep KEEP most engines clean...
 
Ive used HM oil in my truck that has some oil consumption and someitmes it works well and other times it still consumes....I dont think that they clean better than another oil and IMO if you change it regularly and dont wear it to the point that its like tar your engine shouldnt need cleaning at all.
 
Keeping an engine clean with oil alone is simple enough, cleaning a dirty engine with oil alone is another thing entirely in my experience. That's why MMO, Kreen and such have their place.

Many of the HM oils have a bit more detergents than their standard counterparts but they are certainly not Mr. Clean in a bottle either.
 
I buy the HM oils because they are often a really good value having a much better additive package.

For instance Valvoline Max Life has about the same TBN as Synpower but has more Molybdenum. My last run with it cleaned my Prius engine very well.
 
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