CJ-4

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This web site has been a great resource for me. I started this thread with the assumption that the CJ-4 specification was the important item when it came to my choice of engine oil and its warranty. This forum caused me to dig deeper into the documentation and I discovered that it is the Detroit Power Guard 93K218 specification that will allow me to run a 50k mile OCI on our DD15 (CJ-4 not adequate).

I also learned that I should start with the “approved” oils list for the machinery instead of looking for the oil that I want to use and then seeing if it has been certified (should have read Doug’s column first). My choices are limited if I want to run a 5W-40 engine oil. The choices, as of this writing, for the PGOS 93K218 are as follows:

Citgo, Mystic JT-8 Synthetic
Citgo, CITGUARD Syndurance Plus Synthetic
Mobil, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP Synthetic
Shell, Rotella T Synthetic
Valvoline, Premium Blue
Warren, Lubriguard Full Synthetic

I don’t want to let anyone off the hook, especially the people that are holding my warranty. If something goes wrong, I want to point to the “approved” list, hand them my UOA and ask them how quickly they can have the truck ready to run. I will choose one of the oils in the list above.

Mobil and Shell are readily available in lube bays nationwide. Do the other oils in this list provide any margin of difference in fuel economy or engine protection over the Mobil or Shell products? Likewise, is there a reason to use the Mobil product over the Shell product?

It looks like I will be saying goodbye to my friends at Schaeffer. None of their products appeared on the list. It is not because they aren’t worthy because I think they are. My last oil change with 7000 was at 100k and the only reason I changed it was that I was getting nervous. The lab said things looked fine.

Thanks again to everyone and if you have an opinion on these oils please share it …

… tim
 
All you have listed are "synthetics", except the "premium blue".

Did you mean Premium Blue Extreme, their synthetic product? That would make more sense.

But yes, they are all great products.

And I agree with your comment on warranty. While under warranty, it is often easier to point to an "approved fluid", and the sole responsibility is on the OEM.

When you use a non-approved fluid (such as Amsoil) then you start an argument between two different entities. And I do believe that Amsoil is a fine product line, with an outstanding supporting warranty. But when downtime is expensive, or at least a huge inconvenience, then having two different companies pointing fingers at each other can be time consuming, and aggrevating. While under warranty, I always use "approved" or "licensed" fluids. After warranty is over, then other alternatives are very tempting, and often worthwhile.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
All you have listed are "synthetics", except the "premium blue".

Did you mean Premium Blue Extreme, their synthetic product? That would make more sense.


Can't slip nothing by you guys! Premium Blue Extreme it is ...

... tim
 
The Detroit web site is working and for completeness here is the list of approved 5W-40 oils:

Amalie, XLO Ultimate Full Synthetic
American Agip Co., SYN-GUARD
Chevron, Delo® 400 LE Synthetic
Citgo, Mystic JT-8 Synthetic
Citgo, CITGUARD Syndurance Plus Synthetic
ConocoPhilips, Kendall SHP Diesel Full Synthetic
ConocoPhilips, Triton ECT Full Synthetic
Hydrotex, HyFilm LEO
Mobil, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP Synthetic
Northland Products Company, Synergy Synthetic Express
Shell, Rotella T Synthetic
Valvoline, Premium Blue Extreme
Warren, Lubriguard Full Synthetic

Still no Schaeffer at 5W-40 but I was glad to see the #700 Supreme 7000 15W-40 listed. At this point, unless someone convinces me otherwise, I am going to use the Shell products throughout. How am I looking Johnny?

… tim
 
If you use the approved products you, your truck, and your trucks warranty will be in great shape. The Shell Eaton approved gear lubes are excellent products as were the Schaeffer's Eaton approved gear lubes. Even though it is not a 5W-40 the Schaeffer's 7000 Series 15W-40 is an extremely good oil.
 
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Hey Powerstroke, unfortunately they do not meet the PGOS 93K218 specification or they have not made the approved list in any viscosity. However, they did make the Roadranger PS 164 Rev 7 list under the heading of “other”. If you read backwards on this thread you will see why it is important to us …

… tim
 
Originally Posted By: timenright
Excellent! If I would have known that I would receive such a thoughtful reply, I would have been more specific to begin with.
tim


dnewton3 knows no other way to respond. The guy is a madman! And I love reading his posts!
 
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This might be a irrelevant question, but I own an 01 7.3L PSD. Would I be better off pouring in a non CJ-4 rated oil? I have access to 28 gals of 15W-40 semi-synthetic. {not free, would have too pay for them.} Or Will the new CJ-4 rated oil that I have inside my 7.3L now do as good as job.

I have read a few UOA from the new CJ-4 rated oils, showing good results. I guess my simple question is If i have an almost endless supply of non rated CJ-4 oil 15W-40 at my fingertips, would I be better off using it in my 01,rather then a CJ-4 rated 15W-40 oil. Or will it even matter?

Thanks
 
I want to qualify my statement with some sort of preface. By saying "non CJ-4 rated oil" I presume you're referring to CH-4, CI-4, CI-4+? If you go back any farther than that, then you could have some issues, so I'm containing my following comments to those revision levels.

As with most things, products that are designed and developed in like-mind environments often produce the best results. That in mind, when you pair up CJ-4 oils with ULSD fuel, the results can be outstanding. I assume that like most of us, you're using ULSD fuel most (if not all) of the time. That has quickly become the standard fuel at most commercial fuel stops and stations. I have not seen LSD in quite some time in my area. Not that it's not out there; it's just not the predominant fuel any longer.

Now, about the CJ-4 oils; sure, some of the additive packages are down a bit with CJ-4 compared to other former itterations, but the base stocks have also been improved to compensate for this. Each revision has it's pro's and con's, but overall the "breed" tends to be better with each revision.

CJ-4 oils may not perform as well if paired up with LSD fuel, especially in longer OCIs. As they have a bit less TBN, the long term effects of this combo may not perform as well as a CI-4+ lubricant would with LSD. Short term OCIs wouldn't likely bring out this disparity, but long ones would.

While I never buy into marketing hype, there is soom good information to find when you seek deep into the websites of Rotella, Devlac, Delo, and others. They all claim CJ-4 provides less wear and better "protection" than former versions. These companies are strong enough financially and with good product reputations, that lying for the sake of sales would not sit well in the long term. I always take marketing info with a grain of salt, but the reality is that they, collectively as an industry, probably have spent millions of dollars and tens of thousands of hours developing the CJ-4 oils.

When used with ULSD fuel, the lower TBN in CJ-4 is of little to no concern. And the rest of the add-pack has been adjusted as well. So the end results often can be quite desireable.

I suspect you'll not see much if any difference in your two suggested scenarios. The only way to know for sure is to run several trials and do UOAs. But if you're looking for the quick and easy answer, I'd have to say it just won't matter much. My suggestion is to buy whatever you could find for a lesser cost.
 
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Will someone confirm that the increase of MPG that many note is compaired to "conventional" (non-syn) oils.

My '05 F-350 PSD came with syn trans and gear lub from Ford. The noted products (and I use 9000 5W-40 oil) would not yield me the listed increase if I would switch to the noted gear/trans product.

The only increase in MPG has come from using the 9000 5W-40 vs MC 15W-40 stock oil.
 
I talked with a store owner today who said he has many customers wanting to buy the old CI-4+ diesel oil but he cannot get it anymore.

Amsoil still offers their CI-4+ oils along side their new CJ-4 formulations.

Could there be a new nitch in diesel oils?
 
Many of the specialty oil companies still offer CI4+ oils. Probably due to the large number of customers with heavy equipment.

Cenpeco, Texas Refinery, Schaeffers, AMSOIL, etc.
 
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