CJ-4/SM HDEO & Flat Tappet Valve Train Protection

[fraso]

I see in a number of topics that CI-4/SL HDEO are recommended to protect older gasoline engines with flat tappet valve trains, especially those with high lift cams and stiff valve springs. Widman suggests in his Corvair Flat Tappet Engine Oil article that a good CI-4 HDEO contains 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus. He also suggests that phosphorus levels greater than 1400 ppm can lead to increased engine wear and deposits. Esso's Flat Tappet Engine Wear Bulletin suggests that only 300-500 ppm of phosphorus is required to protect (OEM-style?) flat tappet valve trains.

From what I can see, the mainstream CJ-4/SM HDEOs still contain 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus. It is the CI-4/SL oils with much higher levels of phosphorus (like many 1300+ ppm 15W-40 HDEOs) that appear to have been reformulated to have a maximum of 1200 ppm of phosphorus.

How much ZDDP, or more specifically phosphorus, is enough for high-lift flat tappet camshafts with stiff valve springs?

Does the actual amount of phosphorus really matter if CJ-4 HDEOs still have to meet the performance requirements of CI-4 HDEOs?

 

[Greaser]

I was using the Esso HDEO XD-3 and a virgin sample showed 800 ppm for the SL stuff.I'm now using the SM rated XD-3 but have no idea how much ZDDP is in that.

 

[river_rat]

According to a chart on the ZDDPlus product website, the 800 ppm that you will find in typical API SM oils protects to a "lifter load" of 600 pounds before scuffing will occur.
Is that total inertial load plus springs? I dunno, that's the way I take it.
You could use Royal Purple, Bradd Penn, or add a little--maybe an oz. per oil change--of Lucas TB Zinc Plus. I get mine from Advance Auto Parts. Redline makes a similar product, and so does GM in EOS Break in additive from dealers. but the amount you would use varies with the additive.

 

[fraso]

If a good CI-4 oil is sufficient to protect flat tappet cams and a good CI-4 oil contains 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus, it appears that CJ-4 oils should therefore still have plenty of phosphorus to protect flat tappet cams. Widman also suggests that less additives are required for the same performance with a better base stock.

I'm not looking for an oil brand or ZDDP additive recommendation. I was hoping that someone here might know how much ZDDP (or phosphorus) is really enough.

I'm not sure why the SL version of XD-3 would show 800 ppm in the VOA. According to the data sheet, Esso XD-3 Extra 0W-40 contains 1110 ppm of phosphorus.

 

[Greaser]

Originally Posted By: fraso
If a good CI-4 oil is sufficient to protect flat tappet cams and a good CI-4 oil contains 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus, it appears that CJ-4 oils should therefore still have plenty of phosphorus to protect flat tappet cams. Widman also suggests that less additives are required for the same performance with a better base stock.

I'm not looking for an oil brand or ZDDP additive recommendation. I was hoping that someone here might know how much ZDDP (or phosphorus) is really enough.

I'm not sure why the SL version of XD-3 would show 800 ppm in the VOA. According to the data sheet, Esso XD-3 Extra 0W-40 contains 1110 ppm of phosphorus.
May-be the additive guy fell asleep at the control valve

 

[EricF]

Redline makes an engine oil break-in addtive, essentially it's a zddp additive.

My question is.. can I / should I put a few ounces in with my oil changes? Will it help or hurt?
a guy I know switched to Bradd Penn oil and swears his subaru boxter motor idles smoother, revs easier and he has more power climbin steep grades that he didn't before. (he used to run mobil 1 only).
I know the bradd penn has more zddp in it. I really don't want to switch from the valvoline synpower I've been using the past 20 years, but I know their level is 800ppm as well as everybody else.

any thoughts???

 

[fraso]

To see what oil manufacturers had to say on the subject, I wrote to Esso and Shell and asked them how much ZDDP/phosphorus is enough to protect flat tappet engines with aggressive aftermarket valve trains (ie, high lift cams and stiff valve springs) and got the following replies:

Originally Posted By: Esso

Our XD-3 Extra CJ-4 oil formulation contains 1110 ppm, or 0.111% Phosphorous, as per the product data sheet attached. This would be sufficient for the flat tappet valve trains you described.


Originally Posted By: Shell

Attached is a article that we forward to customers that query on the same subject, done by an independent, which contain recommended products from Shell, Pennzoil and Quaker State.

Yes, we do make a 0W-30 in the Rotella T product line, also with @ 1200 ppm of zinc, and covers the API Service ratings of CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SJ.

I trust this answers your questions.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us anew. Thank you.


One product that Shell recommends (in the attached article) for extreme performance applications is Q Horse Power 10W-60 Synthetic, which contains 1200 ppm of phosphorus.

I also noticed that ZDDPlus has an article entitled Tech Brief #2 that seems to indicate that 1200 ppm of phosphorus is sufficient to protect flat tappet valve trains.

Therefore, from what I have found so far, it looks like 1110-1200 ppm of phosphorus in CJ-4 HDEOs is sufficient to protect aggressive aftermarket flat tappet valve trains.