That looks to be a high quality oil with a chain brand price. I have only recently seen it pop up in local stores,less than a buck a quart for that quality base stock is a value. It,on paper looks better than some big name oils if the data sheet is looked at
Is it available where you live? If so,why don't you get a vigin analysis done to post I would like to see if it is trending towards a bit of moly like some others out there.
There are some other "sleeper" oils as well. This looks like a good one.
[ August 30, 2002, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Will try to get to that analysis in not too distant future as you have been so generous with the info you share dragboat.
This oil sell for 12 bucks a case at my BJ's club with a $4.80 rebate from a coupon online.
I change the oil for both of my little sisters. I have been using this oil in 10W30 grade for a couple of months now in their vehicles. I chose this oil because of the spec sheet and the fact that I can get it at Pep Boys(near work) for a little over a dollar a quart, and then get a rebate. I have not done an analysis, but the oil seems to hold well with no oil consumption between the 3000 mile changes. -Joe
Citgo is owned by PDV of Venezuela and I believe is used as an outlet for crude. They sell dirt cheap, I guess to have hard currency. Here they claim the products to be identical, and analysis I have show High oxidation and Nitration, with much higher wear and valve recession observed on teardown after 8,000 hours. Their multigrades show much more shear down of visc. than others.
Of course, the U.S. product might be totally different.
Widman, I expect that is no different that Shell in that what you get in one Country or area differs wildly from another.
"High oxidation and Nitration, with much higher wear and valve recession observed on teardown after 8,000 hours"
I was not aware oil had anything to do with protecting valve seats,in fact,it does not.Also from some of your previous posts I am lead to beleive that many oils in your neck of the woods are used out of their intended applications so now am curious to know what Citgo oils,what engines showed these analysis's to be a oil that is near a utter failure as a formulated product
I think this topic oil looks to be a very good oil and suspect the use of a bit of the Group I oil along with the other base oil was not for finacial reasons,there is a reason to do this that is not readily apparent
Groucho,Thanks,more tests to come,it just takes some time to get some miles built up. I have a couple coming with somes adds in them,just small bits to "enhance" the existing blended product I chose. So instead of getting blasted about messing with a forumulation prior,will let the results speak for themselves and get blasted then when posted! Or a that-a -boy one of the two
Anyway,I think that you have chose a good oil,I would use it and test it but have too many other things going on with oils ect
[ August 31, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Oil protects the valves through the sulfated ash and low nitration. The right amount of sulfated ash "cushions" the valve seats. Too much doesn't allow sealing, too little leaves sharp metal on metal. Nitration builds up on the valves and reduces the temperature transfer. My studies on this oil with the valve problems was in a Waukesha engine. Viscosity problems at 200 hours in Diesel engines where other oils have shown excellent results at 400 to 500 hours between changes.
I understand your thinking there but doubt Groucho or Joee12 have Diesel motors that will be using this gasoline forumlated GF3 oil,they also probably have a more modern engine with hardend seats,premium valves,it still seems he engines you speak of had the wrong oil,not a bad oil. Who knows what one gets out of country?
[ September 04, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
I have used this oil before. We have it at our "Fleet Farm" in the MN. The spec sheets look very good. Very high flash points. But when i would ask a question about it, probably on the Noria board, i would get no responses. So i thought it was a cheap junk oil. But the numbers look good on the spec sheets. I thought this was a group 1 oil and not 1-2. (is there anything wrong with using a group 1 oil?) BTW, this oil is almost always $.49/qrt with rebates.
[ September 04, 2002, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: JonS ]
Groucho and the rest while searhing for something else I found this that was written by George,it might explain why this company has a different approach to it's formulations,,Groucho I think I will run the Citgo in my Daughters car and have it looked at just out of curiosity. I have heard that they have some fine Enginneers
Regarding Group II. Let us not forget that the original purpose of the Hydrocracking process was to enable refineries to process low quality crude and get sufficient recovery to make processing them economically feasible. It was NOT to just make better base oils.
The folks who had access to high quality crude had no reason to switch to Hydro processing as solvent refining techniques already yielded very high quality base oils with good recoveries.
That said, there are some good characteristics of Group I oils that can compliment the deficiencies of Group II oils. Yes, Group II's, III', have some deficiencies as engine oil lubricants. Just as Group IV (Pao's ) are supplemented with Group V oils (Ester), Mobil's Delvac 1300S as example, is actually a blend of Group II+ and Group I base stocks to fulfill very much the same properties as the PAO/Ester blend in full synthetic engine oil. Group II is extremely stable and as such can have additization suspension/fallout problems and does not have as high a natural detergency level as Group I oils. Group I has excellent natural detergency (like esters) and good additive solubility.. Thus by combining the two in the right proportion, one can achieve an oil with excellent additization hold, excellent cleanliness and all the advantages that Group II+ can yield. Your basic synergism.. Again, very much the same as synthetics are with their combination of PAO and Ester.
Why doesn't everyone do it? Some companies do not have the capabilities to use both base stocks and only have one or the other product produced in house.. And then again there really are differences in oils, different manufacturing philosophies, different qualitiy levels, different applications. It is what makes oil so interesting and fun!
[ August 08, 2002, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: GeorgeCLS
We nead to thank George for that one,I was the guy that found it lost way back in the pages.
Makes sense huh? Now you know why even though Shaeffers could make anything they want,they choose a blend,also why the Drive Clean is group I and group II oil
[ September 18, 2002, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Friends, I am not seeing any Citgo branded products test results across my desk and wondered if anyone is running them ? Results or input. I agree with Dragboat they are probably well engineered overlooked lower cost lubes. I would like to see some analysis results to verify that theory.
I have a few analysis kits from Shaeffers. I'll send in a virgin sample of the Citgo Superguard 10-30, as I've promised Dragboat as a partial return on his many contributions to the Virgin Oil analysis thread.
GROUCHO MARX, what's the status of this virgin oil sample? I'm using Citgo SuperGard in both our vehicles right now, 5w30 year-round in 1 and 10w30/5w30 in the other depending on weather, and am curious to see any oil analysis on it.
I've sent that virgin sample of Citgo Superguard 10w-30 to Shaeffer's for analysis. I have also sent a virgin sample of Wal-Mart's Super-Tech 5w-30. I post this to avoid duplication of efforts by board members. Thanks!