Chrysler oil Requirements

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: TheFatMan
I am learning here so please be nice. I started talking about this on another post and I know some of you called BULL and I don't blame you but this did happen so can you tell me if I should have my friend seek legal help.
Chrysler Voided his warranty because he used Modil 1 but his owner manual says
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all
types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only
recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet
the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395.

And the Chrysler said the oil he used did not meet Chrysler requirements MS-6395.
Do they have the right to void his warranty?


As mentioned in the other thread, I think the operative word in the Chrysler owner's manual is "recommends". They aren't "requiring" oils that are API certified AND meet MS-6395, only "recommending".


Exactly. And even in a case like with one of the Euro marques (BMW for example) that REQUIRE you to use an approved lubricant, if you don't, they still have to PROVE the lubricant caused the failure before they can deny any sort of warranty coverage.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: TheFatMan
Will I may have used the wrong words

But what I understand is it's Chrysler said they will not honor the warranty because Mobil 1 is not been approved for use in a Chrysler engine.


Interesting as it's the M1 0w-40 that is printed on the oil cap of my 6.1.

This is either a troll post or a classic example of a stealership problem. They are required by law to PROVE that the oil was deficient. This stealership is simply playing hardball, and in my 40+ years of automotive experiences there is usually a bit more to the story...

All your friend needs is a good lawyer.


Steve, don't forget that Chrysler changed specs (and coincidentally, OEM oil suppliers from Mobil to SOPUS) between the time your 6.1 was built and my 6.4 was built...I don't know what year the Ram in question is, but it might be post-SOPUS, and thus the manual has a recommended spec that M1 doesn't officially meet.

I don't assume the orig. poster is trolling, but the information is super sketchy. What happened? What failed? My ASSumption is that its typical dealer bad behavior- a customer has a problem and they try everything possible to avoid warranty (even though they get paid for that) and try to get the customer to pay out of pocket (because they get more profit that way). If that's the case, this needs to bump up to corporate. The real legal onus is on Chrysler to PROVE the oil is at fault, but of course that could take far longer than the customer can tolerate. I really doubt that with the pressure on Chrysler to succeed right now that corporate would do something this asinine. Dealer... yes, some of them are borderline crooks (some are great, don't get me wrong). Besides... oils meeting that spec are only "recommended," its the api specs in the manual that fall under "required."

Don't get a lawyer, get the straight story first. And bypass the dealer if necessary.

 

[itguy08]

Not to beat a dead horse but this is why you take your cars to the dealer while under warranty.

For my Ford, they charge $40 for an oil change and tire rotation. Yes, more expensive than if I did it myself but I gain 100% piece of mind. If something happens to the engine they cannot blame oil choice. If Ford tries it, the dealer will be on the hook as they did all the service.

Even when I had my Infiniti, I think the dealer was $60. Since there were no Infiniti dealers close by I used the local Nissan dealer and it was about $40. Same thing - if they tried to blame oil - "It's your problem".

Sorry that your friend and you have to deal with this but with the costs of engines these days it's better to spend a little more along the warranty period than a lot if something happens.

 

[TheFatMan]

I would like to say thanks to all of you. We contacted my lawyer my friend and I are going to go to his office to talk to him in about and hour. The way my lawyer is talking he thanks its the Dealer not Chrysler them self.

Also i got reading more of his owners manual it say on in the manual

Engine Oil – 5.7L Engine For 2500/
3500 trucks operating under a gross
combined weight rating greater
than 14,000 lbs/(6,350 kg.)

Use API Certified SAE 5W-30 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of
Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for
correct SAE grade.

But on his cap it says 5w20 whats up there? It all so says meeting the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395. Does this change any thing here.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Not to beat a dead horse but this is why you take your cars to the dealer while under warranty.



The only 'dead horse' is that there are laws to protect us from having to behave the way you describe- cowed into submission and shelling out above-market money for a false 'peace of mind.' After all, a dealer unscrupulous enough to try to void warranty for doing your own oil changes will just find some other way to get out of responsibility if a failure occurs after they've been changing the oil. You 'abused' the vehicle, for example.

 

[coolbird101]

They steam rolled your buddy like they do with most of there customers, now that you have an attorney on your side, I suspect he will be reimbursed for said repair as well as attorney fees. He will probably end up with an extended warranty as well, "not that they will honor it".
They will just make it up on the next Joe that comes along.
Let us know how it all plays out.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: TheFatMan
I would like to say thanks to all of you. We contacted my lawyer my friend and I are going to go to his office to talk to him in about and hour. The way my lawyer is talking he thanks its the Dealer not Chrysler them self.

Also i got reading more of his owners manual it say on in the manual

Engine Oil – 5.7L Engine For 2500/
3500 trucks operating under a gross
combined weight rating greater
than 14,000 lbs/(6,350 kg.)

Use API Certified SAE 5W-30 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of
Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for
correct SAE grade.

But on his cap it says 5w20 whats up there? It all so says meeting the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395. Does this change any thing here.


Is his truck a Ram 1500? If so, it should never be operated at a gross weight high enough to trip the 5w30 requirement (14,000 lbs and higher, according to the above). If it IS a 2500 or 2500 capable of operating above that weight, it only requires the 5w30 if, in fact, it is being operated above that weight. If operated below 14klbs gross, then 5w20 is the correct oil.

And I still would like to know WHAT failed, and how.

 

[coolbird101]

I think he said it was the rear main seal in the other thread.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: TheFatMan
I would like to say thanks to all of you. We contacted my lawyer my friend and I are going to go to his office to talk to him in about and hour. The way my lawyer is talking he thanks its the Dealer not Chrysler them self.

Also i got reading more of his owners manual it say on in the manual

Engine Oil – 5.7L Engine For 2500/
3500 trucks operating under a gross
combined weight rating greater
than 14,000 lbs/(6,350 kg.)

Use API Certified SAE 5W-30 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of
Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for
correct SAE grade.

But on his cap it says 5w20 whats up there? It all so says meeting the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395. Does this change any thing here.


Chrysler has spec'd 5W20 and 5W30 since 2007 in HEMI Ram HD's. If the truck is under 14,000lbs GVRW it spec's 5W20. If over 14,0000 GVRW it spec's 5W30. It has a 5W20 cap on it so it is probably under 14,000 GVRW.

What year is this truck?

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: coolbird101
I think he said it was the rear main seal in the other thread.


Yeah, I found it finally. But still no explanation of how bad the leak is, other factors, etc.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

The only 'dead horse' is that there are laws to protect us from having to behave the way you describe- cowed into submission and shelling out above-market money for a false 'peace of mind.' After all, a dealer unscrupulous enough to try to void warranty for doing your own oil changes will just find some other way to get out of responsibility if a failure occurs after they've been changing the oil. You 'abused' the vehicle, for example.


Sure, I could rotate my tires and change the oil for $30 or so. But I would have to keep every reciept, document mileage, and generally be immaculate about keeping records. Especially since I drive a turbo'ed car where they are hard on oil.

Much easier to pay the extra $10 and have the dealer do it where all the records are on line, I don't have to worry about "incompatible fluids", and in the event of an issue they can (and will) go to bat for me as I have a relationship with them. I may have the rare good dealer but their prices are decent, don't try the upsell, and seem to care about the long term relationship.

I change the oil on the wife's Escape. It runs us around $30 for the oil + filter so the "savings" are minimal. But on hers we use HM oil trying to control a leaky timing cover seal until I get enough time or it gets too bad to tackle it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^The above is a great story.

Just don't assume all stealerships are like his!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Much easier to pay the extra $10 and have the dealer do it where all the records are on line, I don't have to worry about "incompatible fluids", and in the event of an issue they can (and will) go to bat for me as I have a relationship with them. I may have the rare good dealer but their prices are decent, don't try the upsell, and seem to care about the long term relationship.

With a good dealership, that's fine and dandy, but the average dealership hires too many incompetents, uses improper fluids themselves, avoids using OEM filters, ignores the manual recommendations, upsells like crazy, or a combination of all these. I've been changing vehicle fluids for over thirty years and I'm not about to start paying someone to do it, and do it badly at that.

Warranty is an issue, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. In the taxi fleet, vehicles never had any engine warranty issues whatsoever. That's not to say engines never have problems under warranty. You're a lot more likely to have your vehicle written off by a collision than having it rendered useless by a blown engine.

Dealers' poor service and them trying to enforce warranty denials are reasons to stay away from their service departments, not reasons to give them your business. If everyone magically boycotted dealer service departments for everything except warranty work, perhaps that would be the best way to ensure dealers go to bat for their customers.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: Garak
the average dealership hires too many incompetents, uses improper fluids themselves, avoids using OEM filters, ignores the manual recommendations, upsells like crazy, or a combination of all these. I've been changing vehicle fluids for over thirty years and I'm not about to start paying someone to do it, and do it badly at that.
I could NOT have said it better myself.

 

[ottotheclown]

Durablend is a oil that meets the spec. It is on sale at Autozone I am sure only 5-30 or 10-30 .

 

[ottotheclown]

At my Subaru they charge $81 for a oil change. I bought PP 0-20 for $23 got $10 back in a check and $5 coupon

toward a purchase of PP or PU from Shell.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

The only 'dead horse' is that there are laws to protect us from having to behave the way you describe- cowed into submission and shelling out above-market money for a false 'peace of mind.' After all, a dealer unscrupulous enough to try to void warranty for doing your own oil changes will just find some other way to get out of responsibility if a failure occurs after they've been changing the oil. You 'abused' the vehicle, for example.


Sure, I could rotate my tires and change the oil for $30 or so. But I would have to keep every reciept, document mileage, and generally be immaculate about keeping records. Especially since I drive a turbo'ed car where they are hard on oil.

Much easier to pay the extra $10 and have the dealer do it where all the records are on line, I don't have to worry about "incompatible fluids", and in the event of an issue they can (and will) go to bat for me as I have a relationship with them. I may have the rare good dealer but their prices are decent, don't try the upsell, and seem to care about the long term relationship.

I change the oil on the wife's Escape. It runs us around $30 for the oil + filter so the "savings" are minimal. But on hers we use HM oil trying to control a leaky timing cover seal until I get enough time or it gets too bad to tackle it.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

The only 'dead horse' is that there are laws to protect us from having to behave the way you describe- cowed into submission and shelling out above-market money for a false 'peace of mind.' After all, a dealer unscrupulous enough to try to void warranty for doing your own oil changes will just find some other way to get out of responsibility if a failure occurs after they've been changing the oil. You 'abused' the vehicle, for example.


Sure, I could rotate my tires and change the oil for $30 or so. But I would have to keep every reciept, document mileage, and generally be immaculate about keeping records.


If you don't do that anyway... you SHOULD!

I'd rather "only have myself to blame" than let someone else screw up, and then still blame myself for not taking responsibility in the first place. But that's just me. I'm an admitted micromanager.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Like Garak we make our money off our vehicles.

Doing most service in-house simply lets us keep more of it.

I worked in Stealerships a a kid, and many of them used their LEAST EXPERIENCED worker for the oil changer. I have seen vehicles backed out of the shop with no oil or even a filter in/on them, then hurriedly pulled back in to be properly finished. I have also seen them leave with no oil in the sump at all, just driven away by the unsuspecting client!

I, too, would rather be to blame...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Like Garak we make our money off our vehicles.

Doing most service in-house simply lets us keep more of it.

I worked in Stealerships a a kid, and many of them used their LEAST EXPERIENCED worker for the oil changer. I have seen vehicles backed out of the shop with no oil or even a filter in/on them, then hurriedly pulled back in to be properly finished. I have also seen them leave with no oil in the sump at all, just driven away by the unsuspecting client!

I, too, would rather be to blame...


You nailed that. I saw cars dropped of the lift, doors left open on lifts that were destroyed by the lift structure when the car was raised. Engines driven with no oil, and the cheapest garbage oil and filter you could possibly buy added to them. Oh and lets not forget the more savvy young oil changers who'd take the synthetic oil the customer would bring in hoping it would be used in his car as requested.

My hope with dealerships is when I buy a new car I see them twice. Once for the purchase, and once to pick it up. I hope I never have a warranty issue, and never have to see them until I'm ready to buy another new vehicle. Used car purchases are always private sales.

 

[NHHEMI]

Any mechanic, even the best, can make a mistake at times. I think some people hold them to impossible standards. I would judge a dealer and their mechanics more on how they handled that mistake than the fact the mistake was made. Unless of course they were made all the time.

The dealer( Chreysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep )I use is great. Their work is excellent. Have only had 2 issues in all the years we have dealt with them( dating back to late 60's ). Both times the dealer did us right. They charge me a whopping $10 to do OC's( using my parts ). They do a good job too. That $10 includes checking and topping off all fluids, checking and setting tire PSI, and disposal of the old oil. For $10 it isn't worth the hassle of doing it myself.

Now, the Toyota dealers around here are HORRENDOUS!!!!!! Especially the one I bought a Tacoma at that turned out to be a big time lemon. I was back there almost daily in the 7 months I had that turd on wheels. They were awful. I even tried the other local dealers and got the same arrogant attitude and incompetant help. Every time I read the things you guys say about dealers being so bad it sounds like the local Toyota dealers to me.

ALL dealers are not like that though. We have some good local Ford and GM dealers here and as said the Chrysler brand dealer my family has used for decades is amazing.