Chrysler admits faults, changes plans

[ClarkB]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

It actually started a "modern retro" trend that was very successful for the PT itself, the New Beetle, the MINI, Audi TT, and the Chevy HHR...


Let's not forget the Mustang, Challenger, and Camaro have all taken the retro look in recent years also and the SSR has been designed around that concept entirely.

Clark

 

[Scdevon]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
I think the results of the FIAT takeover are going to create some of the nicest, most balanced, and reliable products that Chrysler group has ever had it their history. I really think this scenario is going to be a pleasant surprise to everone.


I hope that Fiat has upgraded their status from being on par with Peugeot. Artise~'s make beautiful cars .....that are more suitable at being admired in conversation over a glass of wine at the cafe. Both knew the inside of a repair shop so well in North America.


I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about this either. Historically, the only European cars with a worse reputation for reliability than Fiat were British cars. Yeah, I know how they're supposed to be sooooo much better now than they used to be.
F.ix I.t A.gain, T.ony.

 

[Vizzy]

Although FIAT isn't par with Toyota, or Honda just yet, they are almost on par if not better in some cases than VW....

Most folks that are old enough to remember FIAT in the USA in the 70's and early 80's correctly recall the poor quality, and reliability, but then again almost all makers in the 70's and very early 80s had less than stellar marks in this regard.

Things are very different today at FIAT. Luckily most potential buyers that FIAT wants in the USA don't have any memory of the bad old days. Most FIAT products from the past 7-8 years have been quite good really.

 

[mrsilv04]

PT = Personal Transport.

 

[Rabbler]

PT is the body code.
Just like the JEEP Wranglers were known as CJ's YJ's and TJ's
Those are their respective body codes.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Rabbler
PT is the body code.
Just like the JEEP Wranglers were known as CJ's YJ's and TJ's
Those are their respective body codes.


But in the case of the PT, I've always wondered which was the chicken and which was the egg. Even with Jeep, the long-lived rumor (possibly true) is that the original "CJ" body code stood for "Civilian Jeep" and the body code followed.

 

[Hootbro]

A unibody Dakota. PASS!

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
They have a few good products. Their best product, IMO, is the Sprinter van which it looks like they will replace and that worries me.

They have to replace the Sprinter, as it is wholly a Daimler product. The plan is for select Mercedes-Benz dealers to begin selling the Sprinter, alongside the small number of Freightliner dealers who currently sell them.

I'd like to see the FIAT Ducato introduced here. It would be an excellent competitor for the Sprinter. Then again, I'm still dreaming about getting my mitts on a FIAT Grande Punto Abarth EsseEsse...

 

[RacerE7773]

Now all they have to do is defuse those kegs of dynamite chrysler has had attached between the engine and drivelines for years (ie transmissions).

 

[caravanmike]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
A unibody Dakota. PASS!


i'd buy one! remember the jeep commache unibody pick up. they were as tough as the xj's. mike

 

[01rangerxl]

The Comanche had a frame attached to the unibody cab though. The bed was still separate.

Comanches could be equipped with a one ton payload package that had a Dana 44 rear, so Jeep built them as working trucks despite their unibody front. The Comanche is probably the only unibody pickup that has been produced that I would consider owning.

 

[hone eagle]

Ford's ceo just announced that the KA will not be coming over as there is not enough market ,this is the sister to the Fiat 500
comments?

 

[Scdevon]

If all of these vehicles were such great ideas, why did AMC/Jeep go under and why has Chrysler been marginalized to the point that a second-rate Italian car maker had to take them over?

There's always one or two people in the Chrysler cheerleading section talking about how great their MOPAR vehicle is when the repair statistics and lack of sales numbers support the fact that these vehicles are from the absolute dark ages of American car engineering.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Scdevon
If all of these vehicles were such great ideas, why did AMC/Jeep go under and why has Chrysler been marginalized to the point that a second-rate Italian car maker had to take them over?

There's always one or two people in the Chrysler cheerleading section talking about how great their MOPAR vehicle is when the repair statistics and lack of sales numbers support the fact that these vehicles are from the absolute dark ages of American car engineering.

Some of their vehicles are great ideas, some not. They aren't afraid to try something new though and some of their vehicles have character. Even my kkrap Neon was designed to be the funnest to drive, highest hp econo-smartie in '95. It hasn't been the most reliable car ever but its been average in my vehicle experience. Also paying for repairs isn't quite as painful as it was for our boring slow Sentra that it replaced.
I think in the past their cars have been designed more by car guys than a commitee of appliance engineers(toyota for example) and some people like that.

 

[Scdevon]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

I think in the past their cars have been designed more by car guys than a commitee of appliance engineers(toyota for example) and some people like that.


I agree with most of that, but as a car maker, you have to build what the masses want to buy. What the masses want to buy are boring, economical cars that don't break down like a Camry.
I'm sure someone's going to chime in and tell me what a P.O.S. their Toyota was and how reliable their Chrysler was right about now. No matter what anyone says, Toyota outsells everyone else for a reason. OVERALL they build a superior vehicle with a few lemons every once in a while. Chrysler builds lemons with a good one tossed in every once in a while. Big difference.

 

[Paul56]

Originally Posted By: Scdevon

I agree with most of that, but as a car maker, you have to build what the masses want to buy. What the masses want to buy are boring, economical cars that don't break down like a Camry.
I'm sure someone's going to chime in and tell me what a P.O.S. their Toyota was and how reliable their Chrysler was right about now. No matter what anyone says, Toyota outsells everyone else for a reason. OVERALL they build a superior vehicle with a few lemons every once in a while. Chrysler builds lemons with a good one tossed in every once in a while. Big difference.


...and that person would be me.

While I will not comment that my Toyota Camry was a POS... as a brand new vehicle it did have more than its share of little issues that were irritating enough for numerous trips back to the dealer... made more irritating merely by the fact that I had to go back. The Camry for me was a disappointment... but not a complete POS.

The Neon I'm driving now is working fine and has been very reliable.

Perhaps I had higher expectations for the Camry than the Neon.

 

[Scdevon]

Originally Posted By: Paul56


...and that person would be me.

While I will not comment that my Toyota Camry was a POS... as a brand new vehicle it did have more than its share of little issues that were irritating enough for numerous trips back to the dealer... made more irritating merely by the fact that I had to go back. The Camry for me was a disappointment... but not a complete POS.

The Neon I'm driving now is working fine and has been very reliable.

Perhaps I had higher expectations for the Camry than the Neon.


I believe everything you're saying, but your experience is anomalous given repair statistics, overall customer satisfaction, resale values and brand loyalty.
Domestics don't measure up in the big picture.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: RacerE7773
Now all they have to do is defuse those kegs of dynamite chrysler has had attached between the engine and drivelines for years (ie transmissions).


There was only ONE transmission model that was a time-bomb: the 41TE used in the minivans. And its been pretty solid for the last 10 years or so, too. The 545RFE in the rear-drive jeeps and Ram trucks is proving to be a very bulletproof replacement for the old 727-based A-518.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Scdevon


I believe everything you're saying, but your experience is anomalous given repair statistics, overall customer satisfaction, resale values and brand loyalty.
Domestics don't measure up in the big picture.


Sorry, just don't buy it. So many sources of information that allegedly back up that claim are self-reporting nonsense like Consumer Reports. You can't take ANY of that seriously because its not a scientific sampling method. The problem with cars is that its *very* hard do actually gather unbiased information, because the people who are the most vocal are the ones that a) had a problem and are hacked off, or b) fully buy into the halo effect of whatever brand they're slathering praise upon.


Cars are pretty much all alike these days. I no longer think Chrysler is anything particularly special (well, the Challenger is, and the new Hemi is a work of art, but then so is Ford's Ecoboost engine). Chrysler ONCE stood head and shoulders above the rest in engineering design, but poor QC and QA always plagued them. But even that was 40 years ago, when cars were something other than transportation appliances.

 

[Greaser]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
"Jeep is positioned to become quite a jewel in Chrysler (and Fiat's) crown, but it has a ways to go. The high time for the brand was the 1990s, when they sold 629,000 models with only 3 models; in the new millennium they expanded the model lineup to seven but sales actually dropped by over 150,000 units. Clearly, the strategy failed."

And the whole hardcore Jeep community shouts a collective "DUH!!!"

Cherokee, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee: True, pure Jeep vehicles that sold like gangbusters and were true to offroading first. Everything else that's been introduced has some aspect of fluffy [censored] to it. The closest to "real" Jeeps are the Liberty (hampered by IFS and too many concessions to comfort) and the Commander (highly capable platform marketed WAY too far upscale). The Compass and Patriot are brand-polluting jokes that should never have carried the Jeep logo.

I couldn't have said it better myself!