Choosing oil filter size

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370
Location
Munich, Germany
Gentlemen,
i need annother advice. I have the coiche between 2 or even 3 oil filter sizes. Car is a Honda S2000.

The original oil filter is the big one on the left, meant for a long OCI of 10,000 Miles. Volume about 0.4 Quarts.
The middle one is the older version from Honda, used previously on all Hondas, at least in Europe. Meant for a shorter OCI of 6,000 Miles. Volume about 0.3 Quarts.
The right one, the smallest, is designed for different cars (Mazda Miata/ Nissan Z350) but it will fit pefertcly and is othwerwse 100% identical to the middle one. Volume about 0,2 Quarts.

My goal ist to fight cold start wear, i want a oil filter that gets filled as fast as possible when i start the engine. The car is a weekend toy, it is sitting often for 1 or 2 weeks.
I run short OCIs, once a year. My expierience with OEM Honda Filters so far is bad, it looks like i had a few with a bad drainback valve.

Is there a technical need for the bigger filter? Could i use the smaller ones without a risk for the engine?
I am a littel bit puzzled why honda uesed the big filter on the S2000. Is there maybe a technical reason beside a longer OCi?
The S200 has a little higher then usual Oil pressure, around 85 - 100 PSi / 6 to 7 Bar. Otherwise, it is a regular Honda engine. Close to the K series.

I had some E-Mails with MAHLE Filters, but all they told me was that the big and the middle ones are rated both with a flowrate of 20 Liters per minute and have the same dirt holding capacitiy.
 

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1,867
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Americus, GA
Use what’s specified or a direct aftermarket replacement.
 

ChristianReske

Thread starter
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370
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Munich, Germany
@ MParr:
Thanks. But, to my knowledge, there is nothing special about the OEM Honda S2000 Filter beside the print on the Filter with the different installation instructions. The S2000 Filter needs more torque to avoid getting loose caused by engine vibrations above 7.000 Rpm.
7/8 Turn, 20-24 Nm, 15-18 Lb/ft.

Otherwise, it is plain regular filter. If i choose a aftermarkekt filter for the S2000, i simply have to select one with the exaclty same style rubber seal and use the same torque as specified by Honda for the S2000.

But i want to detect and solve a problem, i want to try a different brand and, if possible, size of the filter.
 
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337
Location
KY, USA
If it were me I'd probably use the larger filter. It likely has more filtering media. I have some cars that have two different size filters available. One is about 2" longer than the other I use the longer filter for the above mentioned reason. Your engine will likely be OK with whatever you decide. I've got a '16 Nissan Versa too. It has the smallest filter I've ever had on any vehicle I've owned but, the oil stays really clean in it.
 
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1,301
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Athens, GA
Would the smaller filters not run the risk of going into bypass at higher engine speeds where that motor is going to spend a lot of its time?
 
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25,748
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PNW
Would the smaller filters not run the risk of going into bypass at higher engine speeds where that motor is going to spend a lot of its time?

Very slightly, but something I wouldn't worry about. It would be mostly when the oil is cold at first start-up and if the engine is revved high before the oil warms up. Best practice is to always get the oil warm before going wild on the gas pedal.
 
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1,301
Location
Athens, GA
Very slightly, but something I wouldn't worry about. It would be mostly when the oil is cold at first start-up and if the engine is revved high before the oil warms up. Best practice is to always get the oil warm before going wild on the gas pedal.

I get that part of it, but my point is you're dealing with an engine that spins to 9000 rpm, so Honda probably prioritized filtered flow when they picked that filter for the car. They also specified 10W-30 for it, so a thicker oil out of the gate and potentially higher system pressures. My total guess is they wanted a stronger filter with more filter area to prevent bypass at high RPM's.

Again, total guess on my part.
 
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I get that part of it, but my point is you're dealing with an engine that spins to 9000 rpm, so Honda probably prioritized filtered flow when they picked that filter for the car. They also specified 10W-30 for it, so a thicker oil out of the gate and potentially higher system pressures. My total guess is they wanted a stronger filter with more filter area to prevent bypass at high RPM's.

Again, total guess on my part.

Lots of factors involved which determines when a specific oil filter goes into bypass. Just looking at the size of the can doesn't tell you much. It depends on the actual flow area of the media (I've discovered less media area in some filters with bigger cans than some with smaller cans), the flow resistance of the media itself, the oil viscosity used, the oil pump flow volume vs RPM and the bypass valve setting.

If a well known brand filter manufacture specifies a filter model number for that specific car (Honda S2000) regardless of the filter size, then I'd have to think they have looked at all the factors involved. I'd say on most vehicles on the road, it would be very hard to get an oil filter to go into bypass when the oil is fully hot ... even at redline RPM.
 

ChristianReske

Thread starter
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370
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Munich, Germany
Just FYI, the filter stays full of oil after initial use.


My 2¢

Not in this case, the filter is almost empty when the car was sitting for a few days. I am totaly annoyed and feed up with this. Thats why i am searching for a solution and try to avoid the OEM Filter in the future.
 
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ChristianReske

Thread starter
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370
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Munich, Germany
If a well known brand filter manufacture specifies a filter model number for that specific car (Honda S2000) regardless of the filter size, then I'd have to think they have looked at all the factors involved.

MAHLE and MANN both recomend the middle sized Filter (see first pictuere here in this Thread) for the Honda S2000 in their german online catalouges, but i dont trust them 100% about this...

Example:
 
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25,748
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MAHLE and MANN both recomend the middle sized Filter (see first pictuere here in this Thread) for the Honda S2000 in their german online catalouges, but i dont trust them 100% about this...

Example:

MAHLE and MANN have been designing and making oil filters for a very long time. If you can't trust them, you can't trust anybody. If you are afraid of aftermarket oil filters, then just buy the OEM Honda filter. Do you know who makes the OEM filter? It could be Fram, as they do make some Honda filters.
 

ChristianReske

Thread starter
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370
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Munich, Germany
@ ZeeOSix:
Thanks for you answer. But there is a missunderstooding here. I dont trust MANN and MAHLE - catalouges - , they have some tiny mistakes and sometimes give you the wrong filter. I trust the filters of this companys, of course.

I dont want to buy and use the Honda OEM filter anymore, because at least the last 2, maybe 3 of them run empty when the car was sitting. Maybe a bad batch. I am fed up.

The OEM Honda filter is made by FILTECH, a total unknown company to me and not availabe here in germany. I will use a filter froam a different company, Mahle or MANN.

My main question is: Could i use a smaller Filter?
 
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ChristianReske

Thread starter
Messages
370
Location
Munich, Germany

ChristianReske

Thread starter
Messages
370
Location
Munich, Germany

This Posting ( #9 ) from the User "Slalom44" endorses my thoughts.
 
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25,748
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This Posting ( #9 ) from the User "Slalom44" endorses my thoughts.

Like said earlier, a good working ADBV is the key, regardless of the size of the filter. Slalom44 in post #9 said: " The larger surface area helps remove more larger particles ... ". Surface area has no bearing on what sized particles the filter will remove. That's a function of the media design, not the area.
 
Messages
25,748
Location
PNW
@ ZeeOSix:
Thanks for you answer. But there is a missunderstooding here. I dont trust MANN and MAHLE - catalouges - , they have some tiny mistakes and sometimes give you the wrong filter. I trust the filters of this companys, of course.

I dont want to buy and use the Honda OEM filter anymore, because at least the last 2, maybe 3 of them run empty when the car was sitting. Maybe a bad batch. I am fed up.

The OEM Honda filter is made by FILTECH, a total unknown company to me and not availabe here in germany. I will use a filter froam a different company, Mahle or MANN.

Do a cross reference check to double check the catalogs. Go to Fram's (or other filter maker's) website and put in the MAHLE and MANN filter part numbers and see if the correct filter for your engine comes up. If it does, then those MAHLE and MANN filters are the right ones.


My main question is: Could i use a smaller Filter?

Sure, if the filter is specifically specified for your engine.
 
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