Chinese EV Thoughts? Curious on more technical info

buster said:
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I’ve said how much I hate the look of it, but my wife drove one two days ago and loves it. It’s growing on me. I still don’t care for the rear light bar. She wants hers in blue.

Should be here in 2-3 weeks. There’s just not enough space in the Model 3 for my wife’s animal rescue work. I think she outgrew it and I’m not looking to hand over my Y Performance.
 
Ford CEO Jim Farley has issued a stark warning: China’s electric vehicles are pulling far ahead of the West. Speaking at the Aspen Ideas Festival, Farley said Chinese EVs are “far superior” in technology, cost, and build quality, calling it “the most humbling thing I’ve ever seen.”He pointed out that companies like Huawei and Xiaomi are now embedded in nearly every Chinese car, creating seamless digital experiences that Western automakers still struggle to match. “You don’t even need to pair your phone—your whole digital life just appears in the car,” he noted.
 
buster said:
Ford CEO Jim Farley has issued a stark warning: China’s electric vehicles are pulling far ahead of the West. Speaking at the Aspen Ideas Festival, Farley said Chinese EVs are “far superior” in technology, cost, and build quality, calling it “the most humbling thing I’ve ever seen.”He pointed out that companies like Huawei and Xiaomi are now embedded in nearly every Chinese car, creating seamless digital experiences that Western automakers still struggle to match. “You don’t even need to pair your phone—your whole digital life just appears in the car,” he noted.
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Disappointing, but reality. IMO Tesla is losing ground fast and in a few years will no longer be the king of the EV hill.
 
Here is the story on Jim Farley visit to China. He was very impressed to say the least. The rest of the world has been asleep going after profits instead of a sustainable future ... (lack of better words as far as I am concerned)

“And even beyond that, their cost, their quality of their vehicles is far superior to what I see in the West,” Farley continued. “We are in a global competition with China, and it’s not just EVs. And if we lose this we do not have a future at Ford.”
https://insideevs.com/news/764318/ford-ceo-china-evs-humbled/
 
In 2010 China caught up to the USA in the number of vehicles manufactured. In 2024, China manufactured 3 times the number of vehicles that the USA did. They’re probably learning a thing or two on auto manufacturing. :unsure:
 
buster said:
Ford CEO Jim Farley has issued a stark warning: China’s electric vehicles are pulling far ahead of the West. Speaking at the Aspen Ideas Festival, Farley said Chinese EVs are “far superior” in technology, cost, and build quality, calling it “the most humbling thing I’ve ever seen.”He pointed out that companies like Huawei and Xiaomi are now embedded in nearly every Chinese car, creating seamless digital experiences that Western automakers still struggle to match. “You don’t even need to pair your phone—your whole digital life just appears in the car,” he noted.
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This is the same guy that spent $30B of investors money on the Mach e without actually driving a EV first right?

He might be right on China, but he is the last guys opinion I would trust. The Chinese car market is huge, the government has decided to own that market, hence profits don't matter - they can just print more money. Farley likely looking for government hand outs.
 
Snagglefoot said:
In 2010 China caught up to the USA in the number of vehicles manufactured. In 2024, China manufactured 3 times the number of vehicles that the USA did. They’re probably learning a thing or two on auto manufacturing. :unsure:
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China is sort of like Nissan used to be long ago where they could build a car to any price no matter what the consequences are.

Rust, broken handles, electrical gremlins from poor water seals, rapid sun aging are all part of for the coarse.

They are better than they were but a lot of people would spend a little more to avoid issues down the road.
 
I was recently in a country that encourages EV ownership. A few years back you would see Teslas and Chevy Volts. Now the main brands are BYD, ZEEKR, LI and other Chinese brands. They look much better than what Tesla offers. I spoke to a BYD owner at a charging station and he had had his 7 seater SUV for a year and was quite happy. No maintenance issues, no odd sounds and he liked the sports car type performance. His other car is a Toyota SUV but he preferred the BYD.

The Chinese brands are definitely the future in the world, and would be quite successful here as well if they were not banned.
 
China has all the natural resources to build EV's. They have the precious minerals and whatever else it takes to make a Lith-Ion battery. Tons of it. I'm sure they'll be making a better battery for these EV's soon. They have the technology. But, they lack the technology on HOW to build a good car around the battery. Give it time. Another 15 years. They LACK the oil to make the plastic parts of a car, for now. They'll get it from Russia....in due time. Look at the 1st Hyundai's in 1986 ???? Pure junk...Now look at Hyundai and now Kia. Still junk, but 30x better junk. All in due time. USA had it's hey day. 50's-60's. We're finished in the auto world.
 
Vil_Riker said:
I was recently in a country that encourages EV ownership. A few years back you would see Teslas and Chevy Volts. Now the main brands are BYD, ZEEKR, LI and other Chinese brands. They look much better than what Tesla offers. I spoke to a BYD owner at a charging station and he had had his 7 seater SUV for a year and was quite happy. No maintenance issues, no odd sounds and he liked the sports car type performance. His other car is a Toyota SUV but he preferred the BYD.

The Chinese brands are definitely the future in the world, and would be quite successful here as well if they were not banned.
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I haven't dug into this, but are they actually banned? I thought no one had tried to get them through the process to get them federalized for the US and I'm sure the tariffs make it counter intuitive at this time.
 
Torrid said:
I haven't dug into this, but are they actually banned? I thought no one had tried to get them through the process to get them federalized for the US and I'm sure the tariffs make it counter intuitive at this time.
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Kandy has twice tried to pass dot.

First time they opted the Nev route and even with that very low bar got pushed out for refusing to use DOT windshields .

Second time they attempted repeatedly to pass federalized hwy requirements.
They got past all the hurdles but refused to use a DOT compliant airbags trying to push their non-compliant Chinese ones and a second time had to sell their inventory of cars with a speed limiter as NEVs.

BYD Had US cars for fleet sale only circa 2013, no idea how that worked but a small number made it to our roads.

Coda a Chinese company sold a small number of overpriced federalized EVs with a very 90’s look about a decade ago,
A small number made it to roads, they promptly went under, hobbiests bought remaining inventory and the cars were very poopie electronic wise.

Wheego a Merican outlet for a Chinese NEV company decided to start selling a federalized version of their whip for us highways, small numbers went mostly to gated elderly communities, they used commodity lifepo4 which have an unfortunate tendency to periodically drop a cell bricking the car.
The charger and inverter have also been somewhat meh requiring the same amount of knowledge and work to keep running as a home built hobby EV.

If we go back there actually have been many Chinese cars sold in the us in small numbers over the last 20 years, all failures.

Miles was a Chinese nev

Flybo was a Chinese Nev that notoriously only had 1 validated sale because smart sued .

2x 3 wheeled Chinese vehicles sold, 1 EV , 1 gas both sold by small companies that normally market side by sides.

There are many others but this list would be a mile long of very low volume NEVs pushed over the decades.

And don’t get me started on the 2 wheeler market that is impossible to even track
 
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Torrid said:
I haven't dug into this, but are they actually banned? I thought no one had tried to get them through the process to get them federalized for the US and I'm sure the tariffs make it counter intuitive at this time.
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The import taxes, fees and other barriers are so high that it amounts to a ban. Heck, we are pushing our neighbors to ban them, too, so that we don't see what we are missing.
 
US is ceding the energy innovation race to China. Drill Drill Drill.....we're moving more into fossil fuel industry while China moves towards an electrostate. China is surging far ahead in key technologies and their production at scale. The commitment to the green transition hinged on the US being able to dominate the space. Since it can't, it's basically a global competition with the US pushing energy deals with its trading partners i.e. Europe and Japan buying US natty gas, while China expands BRI with solar, batteries, and EVs/hybrids.

"Meanwhile, China has roared forward. Beijing has doubled down on wind, solar and next‑generation batteries, installing more wind and solar power in 2024 than the rest of the world combined. To China’s delight, the US has simply stopped competing to be the world’s clean energy powerhouse."

"Across the world, utilities are embracing clean energy, choosing lower costs for their customers while reducing pollution. China saw the writing on the wall decades ago, and its early investments are bearing a rich harvest. It now produces more than half of the world’s electric vehicles and the vast majority of its solar panels.

The US can still compete at the leading edge of the energy sector. American companies are developing innovative new approaches to geothermal, battery recycling and many other energy technologies.

But in the battle to become the world’s 21st-century energy manufacturing powerhouse, the US seems to have walked off the playing field. In ....telling, the US may have simply exited one race and reentered another. But the fossil fuel industry – financially, environmentally and ethically – is obviously a dead end."


​

 
buster said:
US is ceding the energy innovation race to China. Drill Drill Drill.....we're moving more into fossil fuel industry while China moves towards an electrostate. China is surging far ahead in key technologies and their production at scale. The commitment to the green transition hinged on the US being able to dominate the space. Since it can't, it's basically a global competition with the US pushing energy deals with its trading partners i.e. Europe and Japan buying US natty gas, while China expands BRI with solar, batteries, and EVs/hybrids.

"Meanwhile, China has roared forward. Beijing has doubled down on wind, solar and next‑generation batteries, installing more wind and solar power in 2024 than the rest of the world combined. To China’s delight, the US has simply stopped competing to be the world’s clean energy powerhouse."

"Across the world, utilities are embracing clean energy, choosing lower costs for their customers while reducing pollution. China saw the writing on the wall decades ago, and its early investments are bearing a rich harvest. It now produces more than half of the world’s electric vehicles and the vast majority of its solar panels.

The US can still compete at the leading edge of the energy sector. American companies are developing innovative new approaches to geothermal, battery recycling and many other energy technologies.

But in the battle to become the world’s 21st-century energy manufacturing powerhouse, the US seems to have walked off the playing field. In ....telling, the US may have simply exited one race and reentered another. But the fossil fuel industry – financially, environmentally and ethically – is obviously a dead end."


​

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I think the biggest catalyst was the embarrassment of the 2008 Olympics - the air in Beijing had been dirty for quite a long time, and when they temporarily cleaned it up for the Olympics, the population saw the clear skies and demanded that something be done about urban pollution.
 
Another thing is battery tech and charging is only going to improve and it will likely be China who will do it at this rate.
 
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