Chinese EV Thoughts? Curious on more technical info

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nobb

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I haven't been to China in a while, but my recent trip made me realize how far behind on EVs we are in the North American market.

I was surprised to see that close to half the passenger vehicles in major cities are EVs. All public transit and ride share/taxis are EV. Even many light/medium duty trucks are EV. What's also surprising is in the more rural areas I was seeing more EVs than here in Canada and they still somehow have better charging infrastructure.

For less than $20k USD, they have EVs that can get 400km+ range. While the build quality definitely felt flimsy/plastic...I still saw many high mileage 300k+ kms vehicles and according to the drivers, they've been relatively reliable. NVH and ride quality can be fairly poor on the cheap units, but on the mid grade ones it wasn't actually that bad. On the high end, there also exists vehicles which seemingly exceed what our typical brands (eg. Tesla) are producing like the Xiaomi SU7.

I'm curious to see what you guys think about these vehicles and your experiences/observations. Are they really that much lower quality (eg. less safe)? I'm guessing they wouldn't do well in the cold without extra systems (battery pre-conditioning, heat pumps). What's preventing the North American car market from being remotely competitive to these offerings?
 
Most of China is suburban or city driving, so electric makes sense. And the govt there will mandate it without citizen approval, so another reason why the infrastructure is there. Here in the US, probably 80% drive a considerable distance from home to work and back. Plus, Americans tend to have an aversion to electric cars in general. If they can’t charge it in 4 minutes, or not have to plan it, they’re not going to drive them much.
 
China is a command and control economy that has no oil of their own. They decided a few years ago that they would own the EV global market - much like they own say the market for consumer electronics. So when chairman Xi says it will be, it happens. Cost is not part of the equation - they just print the money. So long as the peasants have jobs there happy. So that explains the volume and infrastructure.

I think they will succeed. The Western automotives have gotten fat and lazy. What real innovation have Western Auto's brought forward in the last 3 decades - except maybe Tesla?

No, I am not happy about this, but I call it like I see it.
 
nobb said:
What's preventing the North American car market from being remotely competitive to these offerings?
Click to expand...

The fact we (at least in the US) have a free market-driven economy in lieu of a communist government-centric economy. In our market, the majority of people just aren't interested in EVs, despite relentless marketing efforts and government incentives. That will likely change, but we're not there yet. Not even close.
 
Last edited:
nobb said:
I haven't been to China in a while, but my recent trip made me realize how far behind on EVs we are in the North American market.

I was surprised to see that close to half the passenger vehicles in major cities are EVs. All public transit and ride share/taxis are EV. Even many light/medium duty trucks are EV. What's also surprising is in the more rural areas I was seeing more EVs than here in Canada and they still somehow have better charging infrastructure.

For less than $20k USD, they have EVs that can get 400km+ range. While the build quality definitely felt flimsy/plastic...I still saw many high mileage 300k+ kms vehicles and according to the drivers, they've been relatively reliable. NVH and ride quality can be fairly poor on the cheap units, but on the mid grade ones it wasn't actually that bad. On the high end, there also exists vehicles which seemingly exceed what our typical brands (eg. Tesla) are producing like the Xiaomi SU7.

I'm curious to see what you guys think about these vehicles and your experiences/observations. Are they really that much lower quality (eg. less safe)? I'm guessing they wouldn't do well in the cold without extra systems (battery pre-conditioning, heat pumps). What's preventing the North American car market from being remotely competitive to these offerings?
Click to expand...
Part of the charging infrastructure is due to popular density. Parts of Canada like the US are very remote with less than 1 person per sq km. Same thing with cell phone service and high speed internet. Japan had that all over before most of the USA as it was financially feasible and made the return on investment much quicker.
 
nobb said:
I haven't been to China in a while, but my recent trip made me realize how far behind on EVs we are in the North American market.

...What's preventing the North American car market from being remotely competitive to these offerings?
Click to expand...
1. Being "far behind" is only a perception if you are one to think EVs are superior to gasoline. Many Americans dont feel they are superior.

2. EVs are competitive in the USA as I think the Chinese EVs with similar safety and luxury equipment are pretty close in price to USA EVs. $50,000 to $62,000 in China is expensive. So just imagine the price if exported.
Thing is most Americans do not want them and the Chinese dont sell them here so it is hard to say.

Then you have these things, for example this 4 door sedan (Americans buy and want SUVs) is priced about the same as American offerings yet it failed big time in it reported driving range. Road test showed the car only drove 61% of its claimed battery range.
To me is looks like an old Ford Taurus.
https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2024-xiaomi-su7-review-international-first-drive/

Also previously posted by someone, crash safety not great.
 
Last edited:
nobb said:
I haven't been to China in a while, but my recent trip made me realize how far behind on EVs we are in the North American market.

I was surprised to see that close to half the passenger vehicles in major cities are EVs. All public transit and ride share/taxis are EV. Even many light/medium duty trucks are EV. What's also surprising is in the more rural areas I was seeing more EVs than here in Canada and they still somehow have better charging infrastructure.

For less than $20k USD, they have EVs that can get 400km+ range. While the build quality definitely felt flimsy/plastic...I still saw many high mileage 300k+ kms vehicles and according to the drivers, they've been relatively reliable. NVH and ride quality can be fairly poor on the cheap units, but on the mid grade ones it wasn't actually that bad. On the high end, there also exists vehicles which seemingly exceed what our typical brands (eg. Tesla) are producing like the Xiaomi SU7.

I'm curious to see what you guys think about these vehicles and your experiences/observations. Are they really that much lower quality (eg. less safe)? I'm guessing they wouldn't do well in the cold without extra systems (battery pre-conditioning, heat pumps). What's preventing the North American car market from being remotely competitive to these offerings?
Click to expand...
Chinese EVs are essentially banned from the US market because of the 100% tariff so nobody really has any experience with them.

The NA domestics can't compete due to cost. The average hourly wage for an autoworker in China is ~$6.
 
I'm a bit torn on the 100% tariff on chinese EV's here in Canada. A $25k EV with 400+km range would do us just fine as a 2nd vehicle, and I do require an imported chinese EV to pass all the safety tests, just like an imported chinese GM SUV, and the chinese manufacturers could easily do that. With the currently available EV's coming in at ~$50k for a 400km range vehicle, they don't really make sense yet.

I do want to get my transportation needs met in an economical way, so I can spend that money on other activities, so it seems right now the older gas vehicles do that better, but a 2 yr old EV with warranty for 18-20k starts would change that math.
 
Torrid said:
It might be super awesome, but I'd like to support American companies if I'm buying new to support American jobs.
Click to expand...
That answer used to have some merit but today not so much. Tesla and every other US manufacturer are using parts that are made in China, GM for one example actually builds cars there and sells them here. Tesla even buys some blade batteries from BYD.
 
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