Chinese EV Thoughts? Curious on more technical info

[alarmguy]

That answer used to have some merit but today not so much. Tesla and every other US manufacturer are using parts that are made in China, GM for one example actually builds cars there and sells them here. Tesla even buys some blade batteries from BYD.

Yes, the Buick Envision is made in China, Lincoln Nautilis is made in China, Volvo S 90 is made in China and one of the Polestars is made in China

Volvo and polestar have many more plans for China, but that might change now

It might be interesting to note that we already had a 27% tariff on cause built in China before the latest tariffs

This is an interesting article.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/automotive-industry/chinese-made-cars-in-us-market-a3786571662/

 

[alarmguy]

Tarrifs are only part of the equation, DOT approval is the tough climb.

This is true however the EU has very tough crash, standards, and now China holds 25% of the marketplace there

 

[Trav]

Tesla apparently is more expensive than any local chinese offering. But that in itself can be a selling poit, nothing says you've made it like having the most expensive car everyone knows about.

Sure but at some point common sense kicks in. The Tesla cars are getting dated, quality is and always has been mediocre, over priced and only offer minimal content.

This may be a bit of a puff piece but if remotely true if this car ever gets into the US market it could possibly spell the demise of Telsa, they are building them in Europe (Hungary) to avoid the tariffs an are ready to or have already delivered 10K units. They use the safer blade batteries that do not need the whole pack replaced if a cell goes defective just swap an individual blade in the pack.
To give credit where credit is due this car is very impressive and at 52K is a game changer.

 

[Jetronic]

This is true however the EU has very tough crash, standards, and now China holds 25% of the marketplace there

there's no mandatory crash testing of cars in europe. there's mandatory equipment like ABS/ESP though.

 

[Brons2]

They build them to throw them away. Not sure how good that makes them, but they do have A LOT of practice.

There have been multiple debunks of this video posted online. Ben Sullins is one that comes right off the top of my mind. They stitched the photos together, IIRC.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Hybrid?

It is one thing to invent something that is cost prohibitive, but it is another to make them affordable and durable.

Hybrid counts but the Prius was released in Japan in 1997.

Camera tech is cool but the auto OEM’s didn’t invent that. In fact it took them long enough and a threat from the NHTSA to wire them up.

Auto Oem’s are pathetic as a collective.

 

[alarmguy]

there's no mandatory crash testing of cars in europe. there's mandatory equipment like ABS/ESP though.

I’m just not seeing that when I look it up

See #2
“

2. More Extensive Crash Testing​

European vehicles go through more extensive crash tests than American vehicles, making them safer in the event of an accident.”


https://motorandwheels.com/european-cars-are-safer-than-u-s-cars/

https://www.motor1.com/news/747787/euro-ncap-2024-safest-car-ranking/

 

[Jetronic]

I’m just not seeing that when I look it up

See #2
“

2. More Extensive Crash Testing​

European vehicles go through more extensive crash tests than American vehicles, making them safer in the event of an accident.”


https://motorandwheels.com/european-cars-are-safer-than-u-s-cars/

it's voluntary crash testing.

audi even got caught lying about receiving 5 star ratings on models they didn't even had tested.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-27392157

A BBC Watchdog investigation into Audi has discovered widespread lying about the safety testing of their vehicles.

Undercover researchers witnessed nine out of 10 dealers from around the country falsely claim the Audi A5 was Euro NCAP safety tested.

But the A5 - as well as the A7, A8 and R8 - are not tested. Audi's UK head office falsely claimed that the entire Audi range was Euro NCAP safety tested.

Audi UK said there had not been any deliberate intent to mislead.

Six of the dealers claimed the Audi A5 had achieved the maximum five stars.
The Euro NCAP (New Car Assessment Programme) safety tests are funded by various European governments and motoring bodies. Their ratings are frequently cited by manufacturers as a gold standard of safety.

Popular models are either selected for testing by the organisation themselves, or car manufacturers can pay to get their models tested.

But there is no legal requirement for cars to be Euro NCAP tested.

 

[Rmay635703]

I’m just not seeing that when I look it up

See #2
“

2. More Extensive Crash Testing​

European vehicles go through more extensive crash tests than American vehicles, making them safer in the event of an accident.”


https://motorandwheels.com/european-cars-are-safer-than-u-s-cars/

https://www.motor1.com/news/747787/euro-ncap-2024-safest-car-ranking/

Yep the US once argued that US vehicles should be sold in Europe without testing because they pass “more stringent” us standards but our cars all failed European tests in stock form.

Our cars tend to be weapons of mass pedestrian destruction and fail all metrics outside driver survival.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/american-made-cars-uk-roads/

 

[Brons2]

The crash test thing is really my primary concern one one of these. China is developing a lot of LFP and even sodium ion batteries as well, these are more stable from a thermal runaway standpoint than NMC.

That said I'd probably favor a used EV from a US manufacturer when my Lightning lease is up.

 

[nobb]

This is true however the EU has very tough crash, standards, and now China holds 25% of the marketplace there

What's interesting to note is that many of the Chinese EV bus manufacturers are already exporting to very cold/hot climates like Kazakhstan or Saudi Arabia so have already done extensive testing. Seems they already have market penetration in many nations.

Here in the local market, the city of Edmonton spent a bunch of money buying US made EV buses and were complaining of failures in the winter.

 

[02SE]

I do my best to avoid buying anything made in China.

 

[PandaBear]

What's interesting to note is that many of the Chinese EV bus manufacturers are already exporting to very cold/hot climates like Kazakhstan or Saudi Arabia so have already done extensive testing. Seems they already have market penetration in many nations.

Here in the local market, the city of Edmonton spent a bunch of money buying US made buses and were complaining of failures in the winter.

Bus is a completely different use case than passenger cars.

Bus drivers are trained not to do something dangerous (or they get fired), they are massive, and the passengers don't need to put on a seat belt. They can be under powered in terms of acceleration as long as it gets the job done. Nobody will buy a bus due to acceleration just for butt dyno.

Again, in the US we have oil that China doesn't have, so we don't put in as much R&D in EV buses as they do.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I will avoid made in China to the best of my ability. My philosophy is to buy local and procure outward where necessary.

 

[y_p_w]

Bus is a completely different use case than passenger cars.

Bus drivers are trained not to do something dangerous (or they get fired), they are massive, and the passengers don't need to put on a seat belt. They can be under powered in terms of acceleration as long as it gets the job done. Nobody will buy a bus due to acceleration just for butt dyno.

Again, in the US we have oil that China doesn't have, so we don't put in as much R&D in EV buses as they do.

The issue is that in China, there are vastly different levels of build quality for almost anything.

BYD is building electric buses in the United States that absolutely meet the same standards that New Flyer or Gillig have to meet. But that's BYD. To me, a lot of the city EVs that you might see in China are one step removed from getting into a tuk tuk in Bangkok. There's a lot of Chinese manufacturing and safety standards where it's more a matter of "How is this thing even legal to sell?"

 

[Ws6]

China CAN do awesome things and has very advanced tech. They are also extremely corrupt and will do anything they can to pocket a Yuan. If you do not run the factory, or have a representative there who is 100% ON IT, you're going to get pure trash out of China. Basically, think of a car from China as you would an early model Tesla...if Elon is as greedy and bad as the media depicts, and then some. That is NOT the car you want beyond "oh that's cool!" feature demos on YouTube.

Here is an example:

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/tha...linked-to-bangkok-skyscraper-collapse-8209755

 

[02SE]

China CAN do awesome things and has very advanced tech. They are also extremely corrupt and will do anything they can to pocket a Yuan. If you do not run the factory, or have a representative there who is 100% ON IT, you're going to get pure trash out of China. Basically, think of a car from China as you would an early model Tesla...if Elon is as greedy and bad as the media depicts, and then some. That is NOT the car you want beyond "oh that's cool!" feature demos on YouTube.

Here is an example:

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/tha...linked-to-bangkok-skyscraper-collapse-8209755

Not to mention intellectual property being stolen, and reproduced for pennies on the dollar. Your Copyright doesn't mean much in China. Despite lip service to the contrary.

 

[Bjornviken]

China is inevitable, will definitely defeat western countries in everything in the near future

 

[Oillover]

I will avoid made in China to the best of my ability. My philosophy is to buy local and procure outward where necessary.

+1
Once we start building EV's in 'murica with all 'murican components, we'll all benefit.

 

[dogememe]

+1
Once we start building EV's in 'murica with all 'murican components, we'll all benefit.

The sad part is, even "made in America" isn't entirely American. I looked at a window sticker for a random Cadillac Lyriq and while the final assembly is in the US and the battery is made in the US, the electric motors and drive units come from China. Then, I looked at the window sticker for an Equinox EV and it's assembled in Mexico, with an electric motor from Korea, and the rest of the electric drive unit is from China.

Tesla has an advantage here with almost all major components in the US. I hope GM can learn from that and move all their EV assembly and EV drivetrain production to the US as well.