China can wait. The Army’s focus should be Europe.

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I was going to attempt to engage in a actual informed debate, but I can see it's fruitless based on this uniformed viewpoint.

FYI, you have a lot of homework. China has a top 5 global economy, top 5 global military, top 5 global Navy, is ranked #3 in the number of active nuclear weapons, and has the largest population on the planet and is considered the manufacturing hub on the globe.

Yeah, not a superpower, no ability to project power. It's not even a serious position to take.
LC,

There is a lot you left out of your comment. Indoctrinating populous from a very young age, disappearance of populace that don't comply, strict information distribution process, prevention of populus from receiving any information not in full compliance and support of PRC. Building of colonies in well over 100 countries. Heck, the PRC own a AM radio station in Washington DC that broadcasts PRC propaganda to the wdc populace all day, every day. That is right, the PRC owns a US radio station in Washington DC that broadcasts Chinese propaganda. And it is reasonable to assume the PRC has strong ties to every media outlet in the USA.

How many broadcast stations does the western world have in China? How many Facebook users in China? Yet China has threatened the US if the US bans tiktok.... Can't make this stuff up. Know who one's banker is and follow the money....
 
So a couple old retired shills sitting in the USA looking for youtube clicks is your source? Do they have a source?

I imagine I could find some retired Ukrainian bloggers that say Ukraine is winning one billion to 1.

The AP Estimates its actually 2:1 for Ukraine, but of course no one really knows. Ukraine will still loose at this rate eventually - but its a far cry from your claim - 20X difference. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-numbers-8768880034d9d7cd6ac6f3e34abd66f5
I have also watched endless videos of actual Ukraine Soldiers and volunteers from Australia and the US report from the front lines. Ukraine is losing and will lose without western continued aid. Ukraine is hemorrhaging men and arms. It is no contest. Ukraine will be out of men and artillery by summer, without more wester injection. Meanwhile, Russia hasn't even sent any significant militiary or modern equipment. Russia is shelling Ukraine 60,000 shells every day (compared to the return volley of a meager 6000). By every metric, Ukraine is taking a beating, losing about 10 to 1 men to Russia.

Please put down the western propaganda and get real sources.
 
I have also watched endless videos of actual Ukraine Soldiers and volunteers from Australia and the US report from the front lines. Ukraine is losing and will lose without western continued aid. Ukraine is hemorrhaging men and arms. It is no contest. Ukraine will be out of men and artillery by summer, without more wester injection. Meanwhile, Russia hasn't even sent any significant militiary or modern equipment. Russia is shelling Ukraine 60,000 shells every day (compared to the return volley of a meager 6000). By every metric, Ukraine is taking a beating, losing about 10 to 1 men to Russia.

Please put down the western propaganda and get real sources.
I asked you for a real source, you posted a politician who couldn't get confirmed by the senate and a convicted sex offender (twice) as yours.

I have referenced everything I posted on this thread - with established and accepted reliable sources - global agencies where possible.

I made no comment on who might win a war still in progress, but you did.

So where is your real source, besides the politician and sex offender?
 
I asked you for a real source, you posted a politician who couldn't get confirmed by the senate and a convicted sex offender (twice) as yours.

I have referenced everything I posted on this thread - with established and accepted reliable sources - global agencies where possible.

I made no comment on who might win a war still in progress, but you did.

So where is your real source, besides the politician and sex offender?
Rather than the continued education or even ghosting you, I'll just politely say I'm done conversing on this topic with you. I cannot learn anything or engage in a meaningful dialogue with a person that truly believes China is not a threat or superpower nor can project power around the globe. A person now resorting to character smears and name calling of information sources. All of the true information is out there if you care to look outside the AP (which is nothing more than western media propaganda machines, we all know it. They have no credibility at all). I wish you no ill will, but suggest you and a lot of Americans get read in on global events in a hurry.
 
china can wait…the u.s. army’s focus should be on securing our borders and ditching its ideological brainwashing. more to the point, though, it’s mainly the navy, plus air force and marines, that ought to be ginning up for china.

leadcounsel’s analysis is spot on. while i’m not a combat veteran, i spent 32 years in foreign affairs/national security work, 25 years of which were overseas, and 3+ years were spent in learning three languages full time. add another 25 years of mostly concurrent reserve military service. i am writing this post from southeast asia. add being an ardent student of military history, particularly ww2.

we, the u.s. and the west, are in serious trouble. have we the economic base and the personal fiber to inflict, and especially absorb, huge and successive losses on a ww2 scale? isn’t the petrodollar on the ropes? are we willing to make necessary hard choices to repair ourselves, that would displease the illustrados of both the left and the right?

may i suggest a good in-depth reading of america’s war from 7 dec 1941 to 7 dec 1942? could we endure such painful and humiliating losses, yet manage to start such a resounding comeback, now? sadly, nothing coming from washington or new york in the past 20 years, at least, reassures your humble narrator, but as always, ymmv.
 
china can wait…the u.s. army’s focus should be on securing our borders and ditching its ideological brainwashing.

leadcounsel’s analysis is spot on. while i’m not a combat veteran, i spent 32 years in foreign affairs/national security work, 25 years of which were overseas, and 3+ years were spent in learning three languages full time. add another 25 years of mostly concurrent reserve military service. i am writing this post from southeast asia. add being an ardent student of military history, particularly ww2.

we, the u.s. and the west, are in serious trouble. have we the economic base and the personal fiber to inflict, and especially absorb, huge and successive losses on a ww2 scale? isn’t the petrodollar on the ropes? are we willing to make necessary hard choices to repair ourselves, that would displease the illustrados of both the left and the right?

may i suggest a good in-depth reading of america’s war from 7 dec 1941 to 7 dec 1942? could we endure such painful and humiliating losses, yet manage to start such a resounding comeback, now? sadly, nothing coming from washington or new york in the past 20 years, at least, reassures your humble narrator, but as always, ymmv.
Excellent assessments.

The US has so many fundamental problems, that anything other than focusing 100% on fixing these fundamental problems is a mistake. WE could come up with a list of 50 critical things needing to be fixed in the US, from borders, infrastructure, drugs, culture, our broken police and military forces, broken education systems, failed economy, our division, and so forth. We are morally and economically bankrupt. A massive and growing poverty class, with 2 out of 3 Americans struggling to survive, living paycheck to paycheck. And so forth.

The idea we are sending weapons and military aid to kill Russians in a location irrelevant to America, and then sabre rattling over Tiawan, is nonsensical western suicide. Instead, we should do like Intel, and build chip manufacturing in the US. WE need to restore the US manufacturing base, fix our education, and fix our borders and socio economic problems at home.
 
Rather than the continued education or even ghosting you, I'll just politely say I'm done conversing on this topic with you. I cannot learn anything or engage in a meaningful dialogue with a person that truly believes China is not a threat or superpower nor can project power around the globe. A person now resorting to character smears and name calling of information sources. All of the true information is out there if you care to look outside the AP (which is nothing more than western media propaganda machines, we all know it. They have no credibility at all). I wish you no ill will, but suggest you and a lot of Americans get read in on global events in a hurry.
No, you can't source your supposed facts so your taking your ball and going home.

The two sources you posted were in fact a politician and sex offender. It took me about 30 seconds to find.
 
No, you can't source your supposed facts so your taking your ball and going home.

The two sources you posted were in fact a politician and sex offender. It took me about 30 seconds to find.
Yes, this trial attorney, paratrooper, and combat veteran is so intimidated that I am making excuses so I can back out of this discussion. Good grief.

No, in spite of your name calling and attempts to lure me into some petty bickering, I have explained that I have nothing to learn from your dialogue and am bowing out of discussing this topic with you. You get your sources from the AP, which has no credibility. I get my sources from a myriad of global (western) intel that is critical of the Ukrainian ability to win, which I think is the most reliable and realistic. YMMV. But I honestly can't be bothered brining people up to speed when they double down on nonsense positions as you have in this discussion. It's an impasse. Good evening to you.
 
Yes, this trial attorney, paratrooper, and combat veteran is so intimidated that I am making excuses so I can back out of this discussion. Good grief.

No, in spite of your name calling and attempts to lure me into some petty bickering, I have explained that I have nothing to learn from your dialogue and am bowing out of discussing this topic with you. You get your sources from the AP, which has no credibility. I get my sources from a myriad of global (western) intel that is critical of the Ukrainian ability to win, which I think is the most reliable and realistic. YMMV. But I honestly can't be bothered brining people up to speed when they double down on nonsense positions as you have in this discussion. It's an impasse. Good evening to you.
I know some attorneys. I seriously doubt they would site a 2 time convicted sex offender and a politician on the other side as a positive source for their argument. Witness credibility and all.

Your the one making outlandish claims you can't source, like 10:1 kill ratio for the Russians.
 
I know some attorneys. I seriously doubt they would site a 2 time convicted sex offender and a politician on the other side as a positive source for their argument. Witness credibility and all.

Your the one making outlandish claims you can't source, like 10:1 kill ratio for the Russians.
 
i currently live in an area called saguenay lac st jean. we are one of the largest producer of aluminum in the world. we have 4 large aluminum factories and a huge hydro electric grid to feed these factories. we have also lot of paper mills. as of march 2023. the largest shareholder of all these aluminum factories is a chinese group. aluminum corporation of china. they are as a matter of fact the largest shareholder of rio tinto. the world second largest metal and mining corporation. and the paper mills who are from resolute forest products have been bought recently by paper excellence. canada's largest paper mills and forestry company in canada. they are part of asia pulp and paper. an indonesian conglomerate of chinese origins. in short, they own us. slowly, but surely, they are buying everything that matters.
 
i currently live in an area called saguenay lac st jean. we are one of the largest producer of aluminum in the world. we have 4 large aluminum factories and a huge hydro electric grid to feed these factories. we have also lot of paper mills. as of march 2023. the largest shareholder of all these aluminum factories is a chinese group. aluminum corporation of china. they are as a matter of fact the largest shareholder of rio tinto. the world second largest metal and mining corporation. and the paper mills who are from resolute forest products have been bought recently by paper excellence. canada's largest paper mills and forestry company in canada. they are part of asia pulp and paper. an indonesian conglomerate of chinese origins. in short, they own us. slowly, but surely, they are buying everything that matters.
Yup, and they are counting on the citizens of the West to be placated by their access to cheap trinkets and indifferent enough to these corporate takeovers to not raise any stink, while the politicians are easily bribed ("donations") into facilitating this self-sabotage. I've said this before but China is playing the long game while the West is hyper-focused on the next election cycle, preoccupied with gender-equal cabinets, who can stake the most outrageous identity and get the most offended and collapsing our grids trying to run them on sunshine and breezes.

The West has lost the plot and China is counting on us not finding it again.
 
I was going to attempt to engage in a actual informed debate, but I can see it's fruitless based on this uniformed viewpoint.

FYI, you have a lot of homework. China has a top 5 global economy, top 5 global military, top 5 global Navy, is ranked #3 in the number of active nuclear weapons, and has the largest population on the planet and is considered the manufacturing hub on the globe.

Yeah, not a superpower, no ability to project power. It's not even a serious position to take.
It's fruitless because you have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. Not surprising given how many other ridiculous assertions you've made that are completely false.

China does not project broad military power beyond their sphere of influence in Asia. That's not a metric or opinion. Their military does not have the capability to launch any major operation in North or South America, Europe or even Australia. Regions with most of the world's wealth and major world powers. The capability isn't there and it's factual whether you disagree or not.

Not projecting military power on a global scale isn't the same thing as not being a powerful country. China's very powerful. They are not a superpower. That word is thrown around too much and mis-understood.
 
Yes, this trial attorney, paratrooper, and combat veteran is so intimidated that I am making excuses so I can back out of this discussion. Good grief.

No, in spite of your name calling and attempts to lure me into some petty bickering, I have explained that I have nothing to learn from your dialogue and am bowing out of discussing this topic with you. You get your sources from the AP, which has no credibility. I get my sources from a myriad of global (western) intel that is critical of the Ukrainian ability to win, which I think is the most reliable and realistic. YMMV. But I honestly can't be bothered brining people up to speed when they double down on nonsense positions as you have in this discussion. It's an impasse. Good evening to you.
You're so off base it's comical. You said China has no debt yet their debit is 250% of GDP. You got something so fundamental so wrong. You really need to re-educate yourself.

Your mind is making all these false connections like Glen Beck and his chalk board. The same guy that in 2008 had no idea what Quantitative Easing was, thought Gold was going to $20k and the dollar would collapse.

You also conveniently ignored every counter point to your assumptions that I posted. Go back and educate yourself.

China's debt overhang far exceeds the burdens facing the United States
. As recently as 2020, total debt in the United States relative to GDP exceeded China's. But as of mid-2022, China's relative debt burden stood 40 percent higher than America's.

The people I know that live and have been to China know they have major problems, like any other country.

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It's fruitless because you have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. Not surprising given how many other ridiculous assertions you've made that are completely false.

China does not project broad military power beyond their sphere of influence in Asia. That's not a metric or opinion. Their military does not have the capability to launch any major operation in North or South America, Europe or even Australia. Regions with most of the world's wealth and major world powers. The capability isn't there and it's factual whether you disagree or not.

Not projecting military power on a global scale isn't the same thing as not being a powerful country. China's very powerful. They are not a superpower. That word is thrown around too much and mis-understood.
@Strommen95 Its fruitless. He has posted mega-misinformation. Not sure where he is coming from or why. Statements are bizarre. You and I understand that no one can remotely stand up to us in a non-nuclear war. If it goes nuclear. China will be 100 times the cinder of us.

Our Army, Navy, AirForce. Is way better equipped with weapons that actually work and training that has not been diluted with graft like China and Russia.

I won't even consider leadcouncil's absurd "council"
Take care.
 
China does not project broad military power beyond their sphere of influence in Asia.
IOW they are not foolishly bankrupting themselves whilst alienating the world (N. Africa, Somalia, Haiti, all of the Middle East, Russia, S. America, Mexico, etc.) engaging in futile skirmishes. Yet, right now, they have big lithium and other minerals and resource deals in S. Africa, Afghanistan, etc. and are trading Yuan for oil with Iraq, and engaging 50% of the world (by population) in a new petro-currency. The US dollar is in decline and becoming less relevant daily. Hmmm.... Seems like a good strategy for China, a bad one for the US.

It's fruitless because you have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. Not surprising given how many other ridiculous assertions you've made that are completely false.
China's debt overhang far exceeds the burdens facing the United States. As recently as 2020, total debt in the United States relative to GDP exceeded China's. But as of mid-2022, China's relative debt burden stood 40 percent higher than America's.
You're so off base it's comical. You said China has no debt yet their debit is 250% of GDP. You got something so fundamental so wrong. You really need to re-educate yourself.
Its fruitless. He has posted mega-misinformation. Not sure where he is coming from or why. Statements are bizarre.

The US debt is currently ~$32 trillion, and that's about $250,000 tax burden per American. Our population is 340M people. The US annual debt exceeds our gross domestic product, meaning we borrow 25% more annually than we bring in or produce. That is a unhealthy debt spiral and has been ongoing for decade(s) now. It will contribute to our demise.

China's debt is less than 1/2 ours, at ~$14 trillion. China's population is 1.4B or 4x the US population so all debts are distributed among 4x as many people. That means by comparison person-to-person China's adjusted debt vs. the US is closer to $3.8 trillion, or 1/8th of the United States. China's annual debt to GDP is a very healthy ~70% meaning they produce more than they borrow.

This is fundamental reading, and basic math and economics from reliable sources. Now, who is spreading false information?
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
https://usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
https://www.worldeconomics.com/Debt/China.aspx

Our Army, Navy, AirForce. Is way better equipped with weapons that actually work and training that has not been diluted with graft like China and Russia.
There's no evidence to support your conclusions whatsoever. Furthermore, as history shows, the US has failed to convincingly win any wars in 70 years, two of which were proxy wars against Communist China/Russia in SE Asia.
It's not always about who has the most sophisticated equipment, regardless. It's also about political will and military decision making - and the US has shown itself to be incapable of convincingly defeating adversaries and having staying power resolve. And it bears repeating, that most of our wars since 1950 were fought against enemies with minimal or no manufacturing base, no Navy, no Air Power, no satellites, no cyber warfare, poor communications, no independent energy production, little infrastructure, and importantly no real ability to strike our forces to cause mass casualties, nor any real ability to hit the US homeland.

Conversely, there is no doubt that China or Russia avoid these problems, can hit with heavy punches, can inflict mass casualties at will, can "turn off our lights," so to speak, shut down our global trade, shoot every airplane down, sink every trade vessel, and put the US back 100 years. Some of you seem willfully unable to appreciate these facts.

If you think this is my hair brained lunatic notion, think again. War simulations and EXPERTS agree the US would lose badly to China. Do any amount of reading on the topic. The United States military is in shambles, unable to make recruitment, and our branches are depleted and equipment outdated and insufficient to fight wars with superpowers right now.

Here's one article that supports this:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/milita...-meet-2022-recruiting-goals-officia-rcna35078
"“This is the start of a long drought for military recruiting,” said Ret. Lt. Gen. Thomas Spoehr of the Heritage Foundation, a think tank. He said the military has not had such a hard time signing recruits since 1973, the year the U.S. left Vietnam and the draft officially ended. Spoehr said he does not believe a revival of the draft is imminent, but “2022 is the year we question the sustainability of the all-volunteer force.”"

And another:
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...uggles-to-keep-ships-up-to-spec-report-shows/
"US Navy's aging surface fleet struggles to keep ships up to specs."

Here's one article from the American Military News in 2021 stating as much.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...ith-china-air-forces-simulation-shows-report/

Last fall, the U.S. Air Force played out a war scenario with China, in which China begins its attack by deploying a biological weapon throughout the Indo-Pacific region. the outcome for the U.S. was not a good one, a new report revealed this week.

“The definitive answer if the U.S. military doesn’t change course is that we’re going to lose fast,” Air Force Lt. Gen. S. Clinton Hinote, the deputy chief of staff for strategy, integration and requirements, told Yahoo News. Many details of the war game remain classified and had not been made public until recently.

In the scenario, set a decade into the future, China uses a biological weapon attack that spreads between bases and warships in the Indo-Pacific and then, under the guise of a major military training exercise, a Chinese invasion force is able to launch a speedy air and amphibious assault to take over Taiwan while targeting crippled U.S. warships and bases in the region with a hail of missile strikes.

Hinote described a trend between past conflict and this most recent scenario. “More than a decade ago, our war games indicated that the Chinese were doing a good job of investing in military capabilities that would make our preferred model of expeditionary warfare, where we push forces forward and operate out of relatively safe bases and sanctuaries, increasingly difficult,” Hinote said. “At that point the trend in our war games was not just that we were losing, but we were losing faster.”

“After the 2018 war game I distinctly remember one of our gurus of war gaming standing in front of the Air Force secretary and chief of staff, and telling them that we should never play this war game scenario [of a Chinese attack on Taiwan] again, because we know what is going to happen,” Hinote continued. “The definitive answer if the U.S. military doesn’t change course is that we’re going to lose fast. In that case, an American president would likely be presented with almost a fait accompli.”

A fait accompli is a French term to describe a foregone conclusion, and is often used in U.S. military strategy contexts to describe a scenario in which an adversary of the U.S. is able to defeat a U.S. strategy before it can even be launched. In the example of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, U.S. military planners sometimes see China’s anti-access area denial strategy (A2/AD) as a fait accompli that allows China to make major territorial gains in the Indo-Pacific while blocking the U.S. from launching a counter-attack. A fait accompli presents a dilemma for the U.S. in whether to escalate conflict further or cede captured territories or objectives to China.

Russia’s 2014 annexation of the Ukrainian territory of Crimea, has been described as a fait accompli, as the annexation was accomplished before the Ukraine our other nations could intervene, and the prospect of retaking Crimea from Russia might then suggest open war with Russia.

Hinote’s comments about the Chinese war game come on the same week U.S. Indo-Pacific Command (INDOPACOM) commander Amdl. Philip Davidson said China might try and annex Taiwan within this decade and possibly within the next six years.

The use of war games has reportedly helped the U.S. better understand how the Chinese strategy in the Indo-Pacific would play out, but some defense analysts are still uncertain the U.S. is heading in a direction to counter China’s strategies.

“Whenever we war-gamed a Taiwan scenario over the years, our Blue Team [those playing the role of the U.S.] routinely got its *** handed to it, because in that scenario time is a precious commodity and it plays to China’s strength in terms of proximity and capabilities,” David Ochmanek, a senior RAND Corporation analyst and former deputy assistant secretary of defense for force development told Yahoo News. “That kind of lopsided defeat is a visceral experience for U.S. officers on the Blue Team, and as such the war games have been a great consciousness-raising device. But the U.S. military is still not keeping pace with Chinese advances. For that reason, I don’t think we’re much better off than a decade ago when we started taking this challenge more seriously.”
 
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