LSPI: A KNOCK ON THE NEWEST ENGINES 2/4/16

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CT8

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Now to ponder at what concentration does the Calcium start to promote detonation? And is this with manual trannies or automatics ?
 
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When Would oil companies go to TPP (can be used in much higher concentration than zddp w/o cat damage, since is a no ash) plus & Boron & Mg, in terrestrial vehicles oils (tpp is an aviation piston engine oil dept, now)?
 

CT8

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Originally Posted By: Pontual
When Would oil companies go to TPP (can be used in much higher concentration than zddp w/o cat damage, since is a no ash) plus & Boron & Mg, in terrestrial vehicles oils (tpp is an aviation piston engine oil dept, now)?
TPP the stuff in Marvel Mystery Oil?
 
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Yes, there is a little in MMO, It is believed to be about 500 - 600 ppm. But to show adequate levels of 1,400 ppm in oils will make more expensive than other AW/EP used in pcmo/Hdeo.
 
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Originally Posted By: CT8
Now to ponder at what concentration does the Calcium start to promote detonation? And is this with manual trannies or automatics ?
This is from an article in Fuels And Lubes International 2013... "Calcium showed the most dominating effects on LSPI frequency as increased calcium detergent raised LSPI frequency, Hirano said. In fact, the impact was so strong that raising the percentage of Ca from 0.1 to 0.2% increased LSPI frequency by a factor of three. However, further increase to 0.3% had an insignificant effect on LSPI frequency. Molybdenum and phosphorus on the other hand, showed good suppression abilities as the LSPI frequency decreased when these elements were increased. At values of 0.07% and 0.15% by mass of MoDTC and ZnDTP respectively, LSPI disappeared. The contribution of Phenolic AO was not found to have any significant effect on LSPI frequency in any manner. The tests also confirmed the substantial decrease in LSPI frequency without the detergent. Experiments were conducted on GF-5 oils and two samples were compared, with and without detergent, which showed that in the case of the sample without detergent, the LSPI frequency was substantially lower than the oil sample with detergent." http://fuelsandlubes.com/digital/fli/2013-Q3/files/assets/basic-html/page43.html Taking the PPM levels from the PQIA's testing of 5W30 synths in 2013 and translating them into a percentage, Mobil 1 was about 0.12% and the Pennzoil Ultra at that time (the one with the 6.6% NOACK that was discontinued) was about 0.26%. Most of the oils they tested were just over 0.2% except for M1 and Castrol Edge (0.076%), but I'm pretty sure the latter was reformulated with more calcium. I'm honestly not sure if this matches the levels referred to in the paper, though...it seems like the paper is using percentage by mass, but I don't know if that means the calcium alone or the calcium carbonate detergent. I'm also not sure if the PQIA numbers are by mass and if they refer to the calcium or the compound of which it is a part.
 

CT8

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I am not sure the NOACK is the whole problem there is oil in the cross hatch on the cyl walls. It also would be interesting to see an across the board listing of the DI , DI turbo engines so far having detonation problem. Back in the early 1980s Doing my life long keeping up with the new technology in the auto classes the conversations with the peers was to keep the carbs as the new Fuel injection is troublesome.
 
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I have seen that Lexus is releasing a 0w20 for "direct injection" not sure what's different about it...so what do you guys think is a good oil to prevent this that's out right now? Funny thing about this whole situation is direct injection was touted as the fix for preignition since no fuel was present on the intake stroke..they could directly inject fuel the split second combustion was needed. So should I be looking for an oil with low calcium levels for my ST? Or is the fix to not lug the motor at low rpms which in theory should prevent this?
 
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Originally Posted By: Travis99LS1
I have seen that Lexus is releasing a 0w20 for "direct injection" not sure what's different about it...so what do you guys think is a good oil to prevent this that's out right now? Funny thing about this whole situation is direct injection was touted as the fix for preignition since no fuel was present on the intake stroke..they could directly inject fuel the split second combustion was needed. So should I be looking for an oil with low calcium levels for my ST? Or is the fix to not lug the motor at low rpms which in theory should prevent this?
Subaru specs 5W30 for my FXT, and I have been using M1 5W30 for its low calcium (according to the PQIA). Supposedly, the Castrol oil in this list was reformulated with higher calcium. For my next oil change, I am planning to try M1 5W30 ESP, which has even lower calcium and also a higher HTHS (as well higher cold viscosity on the downside). http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html BTW, I should have mentioned in this thread that late model Subaru Forester XTs and WRXs with DIT engines were recalled for predetonation, which I suspect is LSPI. My car passed the leakdown test with 3-4% readings, dealer said my plugs were "OK" but I paid the part cost to have them put new ones in with over 40k on the old ones. I asked for the old parts and they were dark, but not damaged. http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/...-thread-570138/
 
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Originally Posted By: Travis99LS1
I have seen that Lexus is releasing a 0w20 for "direct injection" not sure what's different about it...so what do you guys think is a good oil to prevent this that's out right now? Funny thing about this whole situation is direct injection was touted as the fix for preignition since no fuel was present on the intake stroke..they could directly inject fuel the split second combustion was needed. So should I be looking for an oil with low calcium levels for my ST? Or is the fix to not lug the motor at low rpms which in theory should prevent this?
Lugging the engine, while bad for any engine, is not the cause of LSPI. LSPI in the Ford STs has been happening mostly while cruising on the hwy, or coasting down on exit. But compared to the early Mazda DISI and early Kia/Hyd DI turbos, its extremely rare. Most of the engine problems with the Focus STs was from the bad engine harnesses in the 2013 model year. After they recalled and updated the harness in 2014, the majority of engine problems went away. Just don't floor it in 6th gear going 50 mph and you should be good. And don't drive around worrying about it. Drive it like a regular manual with good shift habits. I don't baby mine at all, boosting regularly and WOT at least once a day. I try not to boost below 2000 rpm but these things make torque so early sometimes you don't realize it. Mobil 1 and I believe Castrol are using low calcium add packs right now. I use Mobil 1.
 
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Could be induction problem , temperature induction ,electricity induction.it is the main cause of issue on big rig . if a truck was programmed without making sure no induction potentiality exist (most only doit in a general way if at all. So you can be sure problem will be common . often the fix is as simple as Uing a high temperature resisting clamp or tie wrap plus heat shield tape for wire etc
 
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Cross posting this from another thread, good presentation on LSPI with an especially interesting chart concerning calcium and magnesium content in oil on page 8. http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/8-LSPI-and-Fuel-Economy-What-is-the-Future-Outlook.pdf?la=en
 
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Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
If politicians continue to control the environment that live in there will always be overwhelming resources spent on the most minute of returns. They are in the business of punishment, not protection.
How is the doubling of fuel economy a minute return?
You have great faith in the honest and motivation of politicians. I don't.
 
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So 1500 Calcium of the particular chemistry is the problem that we already knew. Find a different chemistry with and or stronger bonds? Can someone with an actual Chemistry background comment on this Please?
 
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Water injection is very positive for any boosted engine. But it must be very carefully managed. At proper levels it reduces knock, allows more timing for more power, and cleans the entire combustion chamber...
 
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