Chek this out???
- Thread starter mrjlube
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i have seen cam shafts go bad with the new sm oils and thin oil wts. 5w20in a 2 month period!!!...i feel the public is getting the shaft here and you all can say whatever and talk your self into using thin oils..its all about cafe standards..i was approached yesterday from on tract performance about these cars they and their friends have losing cam shafts after replacing them using this oils sm rated and 5w20..they replaced it and used a good dino delvac 1300 15w40 and all is well...i would never ever listen to this dr. ahass jiberish
hahahahahaha
I work for Papa Johns, (I would say Papa Johns Incorperated, but our market was recently bought out by a franchise buyer)
Last I checked, Papa is primarily concerned with overpriced pizza- I don't believe there is any development on high film strenth oils- unless they decide to start buying fleets of vehicles and maintaining them. untill then, i'll be trying to find quality lubes to keep my vehicle going while putting 500+mi/week in-town driving on them.
I'm almost embarrased on a board like this, to say that I am primarily, a pizza delivery driver... I'm only 21 years old, I guess I can rationalize, I'll find a way to put my brain to work for better money some day. (any suggestions?)
I assume your comments are geared more towards the conventional oil 5w20 crowd? How do you feel about the 5w20 synthetic group? What in your opinion is the best conventional / synthetic grade? Does it much matter whether on lives in Alaska vs. Florida? I guess there are arguments for or against? What brands do you recommend in both conventional and synthetic?
As I see it there are two problems with modern 5w20 motor oils: 1) SM has very low zddp levels and 2) the 5w20's tend to have very low High Temp/High Sheer viscosity. While the oil companies have to use other anti-wear components to make up for the lower zddp, do we really know they are as good? I know of one 5w20 that is not "watered down" in either HT/HS or zddp--Redline! I have a batch of Redline 5w20 in a '92 Aerostar 3.0 V6 right now and, even though the engine is not spec'ed (Ford back-spec'ed many engines) for 5w20, I am confident that no damage will be done. As for other 5w20s, I will not buy them except maybe as a thinner, but a straight 10 or 20 would be better for that.
Maybe their "racing" formulations, but I personally haven't been all that impressed with used oil analysis from their normal formulations.quote:
Originally posted by Achilles:
Perhaps you short sited when it comes to oils, have an open mind and try RP.
Film Strength = unmatched real world performance and protection.
Synlube, isn't that the $30.00 / qt oil you change every 50K/ 5 years or 150K / 10 years?
And you add $20 /qt top up oil, and you 'save' $340 in 10 years?
Should I pay attention to an article from this company ..............and ignore what Honda, Ford and Mobil 1 engineers and testing indicate about 0W-20 and 5W-20 full synthetic or synthetic blend oil?
I think I'll take a pass on that!
For inexpensive [ $1.30 to $2.30 /qt ] 5W-20 oils and 4K OCI's :
I'll stick with Ford and Honda approved 5W-20 oils like Motorcraft / Havoline / Castrol GTX / Pennzoil / Mobil Clean 7500
Or, what I currently use my stash of qt Mobil 1 0W-20 at 7K OCI. [although some Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 may get a shot ]
Or the evil and terribly overpriced [ LOL ] $7 /qt Redline 5W-20 at 7K OCi if I want the best protection at higher temps and wide open throttle.
I am currently also adding LC20/ FP60/ VSOT and I think this may help keep the oil in good shape over the 7K OCi, and maybe provide a bit more valvetrain protection with AW/EP/AF additives.
And you add $20 /qt top up oil, and you 'save' $340 in 10 years?
Should I pay attention to an article from this company ..............and ignore what Honda, Ford and Mobil 1 engineers and testing indicate about 0W-20 and 5W-20 full synthetic or synthetic blend oil?
I think I'll take a pass on that!
For inexpensive [ $1.30 to $2.30 /qt ] 5W-20 oils and 4K OCI's :
I'll stick with Ford and Honda approved 5W-20 oils like Motorcraft / Havoline / Castrol GTX / Pennzoil / Mobil Clean 7500
Or, what I currently use my stash of qt Mobil 1 0W-20 at 7K OCI. [although some Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 may get a shot ]
Or the evil and terribly overpriced [ LOL ] $7 /qt Redline 5W-20 at 7K OCi if I want the best protection at higher temps and wide open throttle.
I am currently also adding LC20/ FP60/ VSOT and I think this may help keep the oil in good shape over the 7K OCi, and maybe provide a bit more valvetrain protection with AW/EP/AF additives.
I agree with TallPaul. I also think Redline is superior to other synthetics. If cost was not a factor Redline should be everyone's top pick. The others just don't compare - whether it's Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Shell, Neo, Amsoil etc. The others certainly have some good characteristics, like ie. Vis @ 40 C but too often they lack on other things like Vis @ 100 C or 150 C or lower flashpoints. Again we all have our reasons. Some of us like Redline others like Mobil. Granted I also believe that Boxcartommie22 has a valid argument. I think he was probably directing his comments to the non-syn conventional group firstly and maybe to a lesser extent the synthetic group - again some more than others. Conversly I also believe that our friend Dr. Haas also has made a compelling argument for using a 0w20 or 5w20 oil synthetic or not. The only 5w20 I would put in my motor is made by Redline! Now here are my delusions. Dr. Haas in one of his Motor Oil chapters (maybe Motor Oil 105 - part five) stated that he currently uses a 0w20 in his 575 Maranello with (at the time) over 5,000 miles. He states that sometime in the future, maybe at 50,000 miles, he will have to increase viscosity to a 0w30 and with time again bump it up to 0w40 and a 0w50 etc. etc. Keeping the 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM approx. during the lifetime of the engine. He makes an excellent case for better flow equals lower temperatures equals a more thorough faster lubrication especially at startup. At operating temperature's there is very little difference between the oils. My question is this. If 0w20 or 5w20 offers better flow at startup and reaches the optimum operating temp faster than say a 5w30 or 10w30 then would this advantage at startup not hold true as the time variable increases? Why in time would one have to switch over to a heavier grade? Why would time affect oil pressure? If using the 0w20 or 5w20 is the ultimate optimum why would Dr. Haas need to switch to a 0w30 and 0w40 and 0w50 as time progresses? Could there be some truth to what Boxcartommie22 is saying? Perhaps we should give some if not more consideration to bearing failure with the thinner oils? What then is more important? Dr. Haas feels that increased flow works harder to seperate the engine parts that are under high stress. Would a motor be better off in the long run using a 5w20 5w30 or a 5w40. All else being equal ie average use average outside temp etc. My conclusions are that both Dr Haas and Boxcartommie22 have excellent arguments. Which one you give more weight to well that is the question. My personal choice is synthetic over conventional! Redline just happens to be my synthetic choice. There are other good synthetics but I believe that if price is not a factor Redline is the way to go! My choice of grades would probably be a 10w30 or 10w40 if I was using a conventional oil for most applications. In synthetic form I would be hard pressed to pick between a Redline 5w20 5w30 and 5w40. The Redline Vis at 40 C on the 5w20 is 55 and at 150 C is 3.3, which is higher than many other 10w30's either synthetic or not. The Redline 5w30 is kind of the happy medium. The 5w40 offers excellent high temp viscosity. What more could one want? Perhaps I should use the 5w20 in winter, the 5w40 in summer and the 5w30 any other time in between? Happy motoring.
"I'll find a way to put my brain to work for better money some day. (any suggestions?)"
Buy a Papa Johns...
Buy a Papa Johns...
i like and found to be the very best my opinion:
redline 10w30 10.8 cst @ 100 C..SYNTHETIC
motul 10w 40 cst is 14 at 100C...SYNTHETIC
delvac 1 5w 40
torco synthtics sr5 oils
dino delvac 1300
no sm oils
redline 10w30 10.8 cst @ 100 C..SYNTHETIC
motul 10w 40 cst is 14 at 100C...SYNTHETIC
delvac 1 5w 40
torco synthtics sr5 oils
dino delvac 1300
no sm oils
if you use a good synthetic ester oil such as redline and/or motul then start up ware will not happen since esters cling to metal..and pao synthetics do not...i disagree with the new sm and thin 5w20 stuff (any brand)oils and the amts of additives.. this is a no brainer to me..
This has never been proven through testing. Piston rings are splash lubricated and recent tests have shown that thinner oils in the ring area protect better than thicker ones do.
OHCs are not "splash" lubricated in the traditional meaning of that term. Oil is delivered to the cam bearings under pressure, and this pressurized oil is also delivered at precise points to the lobes and rocker arms and their contact points on the valve stems.
The main problem I have with Dr. Haas' articles is that cams are not lubricated by pressurized oil. It is all splash lubrication. For splash lubrication, thicker is better. Look at your diffy oil viscosity.
I appreciate all the debate the 5W20 topic brings out in BITOG. It's always fun to watch.
Regardless, I'm going to remark that most vehicles would wear better with 40 weight than anything else.
Your car's engine was originally specced 5W30.
A year or two after the car came out, they specced it for 5W20 without changing ANY substantial mechanicals in the car's powerplant.
Incidentally, when one guy called Ford's racing division, they indicated you should run 10W40 in that car if you race it.
There's every reason to believe that your car's engine will do just fine on 5W20 or 5W30, and outlast your desire to drive that car.
I'll wager either of those two grades would give you 200K miles without the failure of any internally-lubricated engine part.
From a stricly $-based perspective, it's a tie. 5W30 is marginally cheaper, but 5W20 gives infitestimally better (less than 1%) gas mileage.
Oh, and the Synlube guy is hilarious. One of our posters contacted him via email. Picture a crotchety old german scientist that can't STAND when you disagree with him, and you've got it. He's a cross between Dr. Strangelove and Terry Dyson.
Regardless, I'm going to remark that most vehicles would wear better with 40 weight than anything else.
Your car's engine was originally specced 5W30.
A year or two after the car came out, they specced it for 5W20 without changing ANY substantial mechanicals in the car's powerplant.
Incidentally, when one guy called Ford's racing division, they indicated you should run 10W40 in that car if you race it.
There's every reason to believe that your car's engine will do just fine on 5W20 or 5W30, and outlast your desire to drive that car.
I'll wager either of those two grades would give you 200K miles without the failure of any internally-lubricated engine part.
From a stricly $-based perspective, it's a tie. 5W30 is marginally cheaper, but 5W20 gives infitestimally better (less than 1%) gas mileage.
Oh, and the Synlube guy is hilarious. One of our posters contacted him via email. Picture a crotchety old german scientist that can't STAND when you disagree with him, and you've got it. He's a cross between Dr. Strangelove and Terry Dyson.
Yeah another problem with splash lubrication on old school V8 cams is that the thicker the oil, the less the oil that gets splashed onto the cam by the rotating crank.
Most drag racers I know with flat tappet cams are converting to 15W40 Rotella, its becoming the "brand to use" in the drag race crowd. For the really hardcore flat tappet profiles you can get lifters that bleed oil directly down to the contact area now. I drilled the oil deck on my 289 Ford to drip oil onto each cam lobe, then had a crank scraper grab the oil cloud.
well, PAO with Synerlec® and API's contribution, i think its a **** good oil.quote:
Originally posted by AndyH:
Maybe their "racing" formulations, but I personally haven't been all that impressed with used oil analysis from their normal formulations.quote:
Originally posted by Achilles:
Perhaps you short sited when it comes to oils, have an open mind and try RP.
Film Strength = unmatched real world performance and protection.
Racing formula, is only PAO and Synerlec®.
Thats why is superior to normal formulation.
While we on this subject: Torco lubricants??
You got info on them, are they for real??
In my opinion, haven't had 1st hand experience with all of em, but Neo, Redline and RP seem to be the best on the market? opinions?
well, PAO with Synerlec® and API's contribution, i think its a very good oil.quote:
Originally posted by AndyH:
Maybe their "racing" formulations, but I personally haven't been all that impressed with used oil analysis from their normal formulations.quote:
Originally posted by Achilles:
Perhaps you short sited when it comes to oils, have an open mind and try RP.
Film Strength = unmatched real world performance and protection.
Racing formula, is only PAO and Synerlec®.
Thats why is superior to normal formulation.
While we on this subject: Torco lubricants??
You got info on them, are they for real??
In my opinion, haven't had 1st hand experience with all of em, but Neo, Redline and RP seem to be the best on the market? opinions?
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