too many tire places use an air impact wrench, even small ones put out 3x the torque u need for a rim.
stupid people or they just dont care
stupid people or they just dont care
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Checking torque on Lugnuts
- Thread starter JHZR2
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Originally Posted By: RonH
Putting antiseize effectively goofs up any hope of correct torque as torque specs are for a dry bolt, but chances are even using antiseize if you're over torqing by 25% you're still closer than 95% of the population. Has anyone actually torqued lug nuts and 50 miles later found them looser than where you set them initially? I doubt. Just set dry nuts and studs to spec torque and no more worry till 5 or 10K miles down the road when time to rotate.
I'm well aware of derating fasteners that are installed lubricated. And fairly certain all the 'clean and dry' folks have no idea how much even the oil from your skin affects the clamp load.
Buddy of mine had a bolt clamp meter - you put a specified bolt in the threaded fixtures, tightened it down and it indicated the actual clamping load generated by doing up the bolt. We took a couple 1/2"-13 bolts out of the Fastenal bin and cleaned them and the clamp fixture threads with brake cleaner. Carefully took one bolt by the head only and finger tightened it into the fixture, then torqued to a value with a calibrated torque wrench.
We then removed that bolt, grabbed another one by the threads and put it into the fixture, tightenening to the same torque with the same wrench. The end result was a repeatable difference of more than 10% in clamp load, just due to holding the bolt by its threads before installing it. And our hands were fairly clean - not overtly oily or sweaty.
And if I had a dollar for every time I had to help a 'clean and dry' buddy remove lug bolts with 4' of cheater pipe or use a crow bar to get the rims to separate from the hubs, I could buy enough anti-seize to last them a lifetime.
I am unapologetic in my stance that it's more important to me that any adult in my family should be able to remove lug bolts on the side of the road with the factory provided tool in the spare tire well and have the wheel separate from the hub easily than it is to hit the exact lug bolt torque according to the factory service manual. I put a tiny dab of anti-seize on the threads of every lug I remove and at the wheel-to-hub mating surface. Never broken a lug bolt/nut, never necked one down, never had to replace one, never had a wheel come loose.
You are free to do what you will with your car, but this is what I do with mine.
Putting antiseize effectively goofs up any hope of correct torque as torque specs are for a dry bolt, but chances are even using antiseize if you're over torqing by 25% you're still closer than 95% of the population. Has anyone actually torqued lug nuts and 50 miles later found them looser than where you set them initially? I doubt. Just set dry nuts and studs to spec torque and no more worry till 5 or 10K miles down the road when time to rotate.
I'm well aware of derating fasteners that are installed lubricated. And fairly certain all the 'clean and dry' folks have no idea how much even the oil from your skin affects the clamp load.
Buddy of mine had a bolt clamp meter - you put a specified bolt in the threaded fixtures, tightened it down and it indicated the actual clamping load generated by doing up the bolt. We took a couple 1/2"-13 bolts out of the Fastenal bin and cleaned them and the clamp fixture threads with brake cleaner. Carefully took one bolt by the head only and finger tightened it into the fixture, then torqued to a value with a calibrated torque wrench.
We then removed that bolt, grabbed another one by the threads and put it into the fixture, tightenening to the same torque with the same wrench. The end result was a repeatable difference of more than 10% in clamp load, just due to holding the bolt by its threads before installing it. And our hands were fairly clean - not overtly oily or sweaty.
And if I had a dollar for every time I had to help a 'clean and dry' buddy remove lug bolts with 4' of cheater pipe or use a crow bar to get the rims to separate from the hubs, I could buy enough anti-seize to last them a lifetime.
I am unapologetic in my stance that it's more important to me that any adult in my family should be able to remove lug bolts on the side of the road with the factory provided tool in the spare tire well and have the wheel separate from the hub easily than it is to hit the exact lug bolt torque according to the factory service manual. I put a tiny dab of anti-seize on the threads of every lug I remove and at the wheel-to-hub mating surface. Never broken a lug bolt/nut, never necked one down, never had to replace one, never had a wheel come loose.
You are free to do what you will with your car, but this is what I do with mine.
I only started using a small amount of anti-seize after experiencing a few frozen lug nuts that I personally torqued to the spec'd. torque. Didn't have to use a huge cheater - but it took a gargantuan effort with a very nice four way to break loose.
Recognizing the lubed threads theory, I round down 5-8 ft/lbs on the torque wrench and re-check after 50-100 miles. I often have them move slightly (the handle of a 30" torque wrench moves perhaps 1-2") on re-check, but never anything more serious than that.
I also use a small amount on the back of the wheel mounting surface, and this process has served me well.
Like others above, I usually loosen and re-torque when someone else has worked on my wheels. I have also asked them to tighten to 60 ft/lbs so I can finish with my torque wrench, which they are often reluctant to do until I show them that I have my torque wrench with me.
Recognizing the lubed threads theory, I round down 5-8 ft/lbs on the torque wrench and re-check after 50-100 miles. I often have them move slightly (the handle of a 30" torque wrench moves perhaps 1-2") on re-check, but never anything more serious than that.
I also use a small amount on the back of the wheel mounting surface, and this process has served me well.
Like others above, I usually loosen and re-torque when someone else has worked on my wheels. I have also asked them to tighten to 60 ft/lbs so I can finish with my torque wrench, which they are often reluctant to do until I show them that I have my torque wrench with me.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: surfstar
You're doing this with as little weight on the suspension as possible, right?
No but thats a good practical question.
Since Im doing this in my driveway with the car jacked up, Im not up for taking much risk from excessive torque on a lifted car.
But is it correct, assuming an impact is in use, to loosen and tighten with the wheel in the air or on the ground or somewhere in between?
Ive always broken the lugs lose with the car firmly on the ground, then jacked up, removed the bolts and swapped the wheel, then put them back on with a very low range torque stick, and then once on the ground, do the final torque.
Should my technique be modified?
You're doing this with as little weight on the suspension as possible, right?
No but thats a good practical question.
Since Im doing this in my driveway with the car jacked up, Im not up for taking much risk from excessive torque on a lifted car.
But is it correct, assuming an impact is in use, to loosen and tighten with the wheel in the air or on the ground or somewhere in between?
Ive always broken the lugs lose with the car firmly on the ground, then jacked up, removed the bolts and swapped the wheel, then put them back on with a very low range torque stick, and then once on the ground, do the final torque.
Should my technique be modified?
When nuts or bolts are torqued correctly and they are in use a while, more than spec'd torque is always needed to tighten [or loosen] them.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I get how to do it right...
The question becomes if lug bolts/nuts loosening is a real problem. Ive never once encountered it.
If somebody with a big impact gun shoots them on, I can see removing and resetting...
But if done right the first time, is lug loosening a real issue?
Again, I have never seen it, and 99+% of the motoring public gets them applied however the shop applies them, and then goes driving at 90 MPH until the next time they are at the shop...
I agree with you, despite the sometimes made recommendation to retorque aluminum wheels, lug nut loosing is not a real problem. Retorquing is normally not necessary if they they were tightened close to spec. The clamping forces of properly tightened fasteners exceeds any normally encountered forces that could loosen them.
It's a good idea to at least snug (no need to really torque down) the wheel lugs while up in the air so that the wheel doesn't get jacked on the hub and appear to be tightened.
I get how to do it right...
The question becomes if lug bolts/nuts loosening is a real problem. Ive never once encountered it.
If somebody with a big impact gun shoots them on, I can see removing and resetting...
But if done right the first time, is lug loosening a real issue?
Again, I have never seen it, and 99+% of the motoring public gets them applied however the shop applies them, and then goes driving at 90 MPH until the next time they are at the shop...
I agree with you, despite the sometimes made recommendation to retorque aluminum wheels, lug nut loosing is not a real problem. Retorquing is normally not necessary if they they were tightened close to spec. The clamping forces of properly tightened fasteners exceeds any normally encountered forces that could loosen them.
It's a good idea to at least snug (no need to really torque down) the wheel lugs while up in the air so that the wheel doesn't get jacked on the hub and appear to be tightened.
when i autox'd i was doing it once a month. i just used the cordless impact to get em on, then set torque wrch to 95 lbs and snug up (without break click) in star pattern, then tighten to 2 or 3 clicks each in 2nd star pattern. done
Never had a lug loosen and when removing they show uniform effort to remove. put a small grain of rice sized silver antiseize on these 190,000 psi ARP lugs about 4 years ago and did not reapply. prob skewed the torques at first (overtorque) but over the long haul i think it protects the threads a bit from corrosion too
Never had a lug loosen and when removing they show uniform effort to remove. put a small grain of rice sized silver antiseize on these 190,000 psi ARP lugs about 4 years ago and did not reapply. prob skewed the torques at first (overtorque) but over the long haul i think it protects the threads a bit from corrosion too
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