I'm looking at this site: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/43787/article.html Is it really that straight forward? And any suggestions?
Chaning Brake Pads
- Thread starter Rtstrider
- Start date
- Status
Something that I think is important is making sure that the pins / bolts that the caliper slides on are free of corrosion, any boots designed for the pins need to be in good shape, and the pins need to be lubed with something like Sylglide and not a wheel bearing grease. I put a very light coat of antiseize on the pins before lubing them but I've not run across any recommendations to do so.
Check for leaking brake fluid and fix any problems, and now is a good time to bleed the brakes if needed as the screws are easy to get to. I also put a very light coat of antiseize on the rotor mounting surface on the hub. If the wheel studs look at all rusty I'll hit them lightly with a wire brush and then brush on a very light coat of antiseize.
As you can see I like antiseize. It's best spread on Saltines with a slice of swiss :^)
Check for leaking brake fluid and fix any problems, and now is a good time to bleed the brakes if needed as the screws are easy to get to. I also put a very light coat of antiseize on the rotor mounting surface on the hub. If the wheel studs look at all rusty I'll hit them lightly with a wire brush and then brush on a very light coat of antiseize.
As you can see I like antiseize. It's best spread on Saltines with a slice of swiss :^)
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,798
Quote:
Is it really that straight forward?
After a fashion. Just don't expect to not experience some minor frustrations with the acquaintance curve. Not all of them are as easy as constructing PB&J. Conceptually they're very simple ..as is the prescribed pad exchange. In practice you may find a fastener that doesn't like to find its threaded hole ..little accordion boots that they're covered in that want to keep the bolt away from the threaded hole ..or bunch up and inhibit it from getting started. The caliper may need a tap with a hammer and some wiggling to get it in the right position ..etc..etc.
These are things that the first time or less frequent type user will encounter. After you've done it a few times, you learn the body language that's required to make it a smooth process.
Basically you just don't give up when you run into a minor snag.
The only reason I went through this detailed description is that these are the frustrations that I observed with my son when he did it the first time on a different car. He didn't have enough experience to figure out how to play with it to get it to work.
Oh ..and do the stuff that 1sttruck said..
Is it really that straight forward?
After a fashion. Just don't expect to not experience some minor frustrations with the acquaintance curve. Not all of them are as easy as constructing PB&J. Conceptually they're very simple ..as is the prescribed pad exchange. In practice you may find a fastener that doesn't like to find its threaded hole ..little accordion boots that they're covered in that want to keep the bolt away from the threaded hole ..or bunch up and inhibit it from getting started. The caliper may need a tap with a hammer and some wiggling to get it in the right position ..etc..etc.
These are things that the first time or less frequent type user will encounter. After you've done it a few times, you learn the body language that's required to make it a smooth process.
Basically you just don't give up when you run into a minor snag.
The only reason I went through this detailed description is that these are the frustrations that I observed with my son when he did it the first time on a different car. He didn't have enough experience to figure out how to play with it to get it to work.
Oh ..and do the stuff that 1sttruck said..
A lot of times it is just best to by the pads from the dealer...( and that is about the only thing I would ever tell you to buy from the dealer) .. The OEM pads are much less likely to squeal or to through off excessive amounts of dust .
My ex wife took her car bake to a brake place 5 times because of the squeal ...I finally convinced her OEm ...the brake place installed them for free for all her troubles..no to mention it only took about 5 minutes
My ex wife took her car bake to a brake place 5 times because of the squeal ...I finally convinced her OEm ...the brake place installed them for free for all her troubles..no to mention it only took about 5 minutes
Quite a few things are missing from that article actually.
1. You must, and I repeat, you must check the thickness of the rotor using a micrometer. If the rotor is below minimum thickness, it cannot be placed back into service legally! If you do not own a micrometer, bring the rotors to a shop that resurfaces rotors, they'd be glad to measure it for you.
2. Resurface or replace the rotors. If the rotors are above the minimum thickness and there's enough material left to resurface, I'd consider resurfacing. While it isn't 100% necessary, I've found that it reduces the likeliness of a noise related problem if you are not using the identical pad that is already on there.
3. If you decide to resurface the old rotor, index the rotor to the hub. In other words, mark a wheel stud, and mark the corresponding position on the rotor. This is necessary because rotors are often mounted a certain way to minimize rotor runout.
4. You don't mention what type of vehicle you have, but based on your previous posts, I'm assuming that this is going to be on your ES300? If so, Toyota uses a two piece shim design. They use an inner anti-squeal shim and an outer one.
If you decide to use Toyota OE pads, you will need reuse these shims. They do not come with a new pad kit.
If you have aftermarket pads on there right now, it's likely that the last installer has tossed these. If you decide to go with Toyota OE pads, you will need to buy a new shim kit.
Important: if you use an aftermarket pad, you do NOT need to use these shims again.
5. As the article states, use synthetic caliper grease only. Do not use any disc brake quiet type compound. Those are a disaster for shimmed pads, especially the two piece OE shims. Some pads do not need any grease between the pad shim and the caliper. For example, the Centric pads use teflon coated shims that can be installed dry, and Wagner ThermoQuiet and Wagner EDGE pads are to be installed dry as well.
6. Remove the pad support plates (that's what Toyota calls them, also known as pad abutment clips) from the caliper and give the caliper a good cleaning with a brush. Also give the clips a good scrub. Lubricate both sides of the clip with the caliper grease before/after reinstalling. This website describes it fairly well: http://www.morseauto.com/brakejob.html (click on bracket preparation)
7. Burnish the pads. Do thirty moderate stops from 30 mph with about a 30 second cool down in between.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
1. You must, and I repeat, you must check the thickness of the rotor using a micrometer. If the rotor is below minimum thickness, it cannot be placed back into service legally! If you do not own a micrometer, bring the rotors to a shop that resurfaces rotors, they'd be glad to measure it for you.
2. Resurface or replace the rotors. If the rotors are above the minimum thickness and there's enough material left to resurface, I'd consider resurfacing. While it isn't 100% necessary, I've found that it reduces the likeliness of a noise related problem if you are not using the identical pad that is already on there.
3. If you decide to resurface the old rotor, index the rotor to the hub. In other words, mark a wheel stud, and mark the corresponding position on the rotor. This is necessary because rotors are often mounted a certain way to minimize rotor runout.
4. You don't mention what type of vehicle you have, but based on your previous posts, I'm assuming that this is going to be on your ES300? If so, Toyota uses a two piece shim design. They use an inner anti-squeal shim and an outer one.
If you decide to use Toyota OE pads, you will need reuse these shims. They do not come with a new pad kit.
If you have aftermarket pads on there right now, it's likely that the last installer has tossed these. If you decide to go with Toyota OE pads, you will need to buy a new shim kit.
Important: if you use an aftermarket pad, you do NOT need to use these shims again.
5. As the article states, use synthetic caliper grease only. Do not use any disc brake quiet type compound. Those are a disaster for shimmed pads, especially the two piece OE shims. Some pads do not need any grease between the pad shim and the caliper. For example, the Centric pads use teflon coated shims that can be installed dry, and Wagner ThermoQuiet and Wagner EDGE pads are to be installed dry as well.
6. Remove the pad support plates (that's what Toyota calls them, also known as pad abutment clips) from the caliper and give the caliper a good cleaning with a brush. Also give the clips a good scrub. Lubricate both sides of the clip with the caliper grease before/after reinstalling. This website describes it fairly well: http://www.morseauto.com/brakejob.html (click on bracket preparation)
7. Burnish the pads. Do thirty moderate stops from 30 mph with about a 30 second cool down in between.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Originally Posted By: Rtstrider
Any brake pad brand preference?
I like Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic (part # begins with 105) from http://www.rockauto.com. They run about $35/axle (including shipping) and many of the local installers that I know have had great results with these. They used to use Raybestos but switched to Centric.
I've personally used the Akebono ProACT pads before as well, and those work extremely well too. They are however, much more expensive.
Any brake pad brand preference?
I like Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic (part # begins with 105) from http://www.rockauto.com. They run about $35/axle (including shipping) and many of the local installers that I know have had great results with these. They used to use Raybestos but switched to Centric.
I've personally used the Akebono ProACT pads before as well, and those work extremely well too. They are however, much more expensive.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,798
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Quite a few things are missing from that article actually.
1. You must, and I repeat, you must check the thickness of the rotor using a micrometer. If the rotor is below minimum thickness, it cannot be placed back into service legally! If you do not own a micrometer, bring the rotors to a shop that resurfaces rotors, they'd be glad to measure it for you.
2. Resurface or replace the rotors. If the rotors are above the minimum thickness and there's enough material left to resurface, I'd consider resurfacing. While it isn't 100% necessary, I've found that it reduces the likeliness of a noise related problem if you are not using the identical pad that is already on there.
3. If you decide to resurface the old rotor, index the rotor to the hub. In other words, mark a wheel stud, and mark the corresponding position on the rotor. This is necessary because rotors are often mounted a certain way to minimize rotor runout.
4. You don't mention what type of vehicle you have, but based on your previous posts, I'm assuming that this is going to be on your ES300? If so, Toyota uses a two piece shim design. They use an inner anti-squeal shim and an outer one.
If you decide to use Toyota OE pads, you will need reuse these shims. They do not come with a new pad kit.
If you have aftermarket pads on there right now, it's likely that the last installer has tossed these. If you decide to go with Toyota OE pads, you will need to buy a new shim kit.
Important: if you use an aftermarket pad, you do NOT need to use these shims again.
5. As the article states, use synthetic caliper grease only. Do not use any disc brake quiet type compound. Those are a disaster for shimmed pads, especially the two piece OE shims. Some pads do not need any grease between the pad shim and the caliper. For example, the Centric pads use teflon coated shims that can be installed dry, and Wagner ThermoQuiet and Wagner EDGE pads are to be installed dry as well.
6. Remove the pad support plates (that's what Toyota calls them, also known as pad abutment clips) from the caliper and give the caliper a good cleaning with a brush. Also give the clips a good scrub. Lubricate both sides of the clip with the caliper grease before/after reinstalling. This website describes it fairly well: http://www.morseauto.com/brakejob.html (click on bracket preparation)
7. Burnish the pads. Do thirty moderate stops from 30 mph with about a 30 second cool down in between.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Or, if you take my suggestion, change them (the pads)preemptively before you ever need to do 90% of that stuff. Save hours and hundreds of $$$ over your ownership. If you have ABS ..do an occasional brake fluid exchange just in case.
Quite a few things are missing from that article actually.
1. You must, and I repeat, you must check the thickness of the rotor using a micrometer. If the rotor is below minimum thickness, it cannot be placed back into service legally! If you do not own a micrometer, bring the rotors to a shop that resurfaces rotors, they'd be glad to measure it for you.
2. Resurface or replace the rotors. If the rotors are above the minimum thickness and there's enough material left to resurface, I'd consider resurfacing. While it isn't 100% necessary, I've found that it reduces the likeliness of a noise related problem if you are not using the identical pad that is already on there.
3. If you decide to resurface the old rotor, index the rotor to the hub. In other words, mark a wheel stud, and mark the corresponding position on the rotor. This is necessary because rotors are often mounted a certain way to minimize rotor runout.
4. You don't mention what type of vehicle you have, but based on your previous posts, I'm assuming that this is going to be on your ES300? If so, Toyota uses a two piece shim design. They use an inner anti-squeal shim and an outer one.
If you decide to use Toyota OE pads, you will need reuse these shims. They do not come with a new pad kit.
If you have aftermarket pads on there right now, it's likely that the last installer has tossed these. If you decide to go with Toyota OE pads, you will need to buy a new shim kit.
Important: if you use an aftermarket pad, you do NOT need to use these shims again.
5. As the article states, use synthetic caliper grease only. Do not use any disc brake quiet type compound. Those are a disaster for shimmed pads, especially the two piece OE shims. Some pads do not need any grease between the pad shim and the caliper. For example, the Centric pads use teflon coated shims that can be installed dry, and Wagner ThermoQuiet and Wagner EDGE pads are to be installed dry as well.
6. Remove the pad support plates (that's what Toyota calls them, also known as pad abutment clips) from the caliper and give the caliper a good cleaning with a brush. Also give the clips a good scrub. Lubricate both sides of the clip with the caliper grease before/after reinstalling. This website describes it fairly well: http://www.morseauto.com/brakejob.html (click on bracket preparation)
7. Burnish the pads. Do thirty moderate stops from 30 mph with about a 30 second cool down in between.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Or, if you take my suggestion, change them (the pads)preemptively before you ever need to do 90% of that stuff. Save hours and hundreds of $$$ over your ownership. If you have ABS ..do an occasional brake fluid exchange just in case.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Or, if you take my suggestion, change them (the pads)preemptively before you ever need to do 90% of that stuff. Save hours and hundreds of $$$ over your ownership. If you have ABS ..do an occasional brake fluid exchange just in case.
Not true. Even if you did preemptive pad changes, there's still a good chance that the rotors could be worn out. This is becoming very common late model cars, especially Europeans.
Also, you still have to follow all of the lubrication and burnishing procedures even if you only change the pads!
Ahh yes, how could I forget. ALWAYS flush AND bleed your brake system with every pad change.
Or, if you take my suggestion, change them (the pads)preemptively before you ever need to do 90% of that stuff. Save hours and hundreds of $$$ over your ownership. If you have ABS ..do an occasional brake fluid exchange just in case.
Not true. Even if you did preemptive pad changes, there's still a good chance that the rotors could be worn out. This is becoming very common late model cars, especially Europeans.
Also, you still have to follow all of the lubrication and burnishing procedures even if you only change the pads!
Ahh yes, how could I forget. ALWAYS flush AND bleed your brake system with every pad change.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,798
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Or, if you take my suggestion, change them (the pads)preemptively before you ever need to do 90% of that stuff. Save hours and hundreds of $$$ over your ownership. If you have ABS ..do an occasional brake fluid exchange just in case.
Not true. Even if you did preemptive pad changes, there's still a good chance that the rotors could be worn out. This is becoming very common late model cars, especially Europeans.
Also, you still have to follow all of the lubrication and burnishing procedures even if you only change the pads!
Ahh yes, how could I forget. ALWAYS flush AND bleed your brake system with every pad change.
Quote:
Not true.
Don't you mean to insert "necessarily" in there??
OTOH, I may just imagine that I do virtually none of that ..and don't cut rotors and ...whatever ...and have not done it in my lifetime ...nor on one vehicle for 140k.
Then again, I do think that I punch in the wrong portal coordinates from time to time. Many things are not consistent with my home base universe.
Europeans ..what do they know
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Or, if you take my suggestion, change them (the pads)preemptively before you ever need to do 90% of that stuff. Save hours and hundreds of $$$ over your ownership. If you have ABS ..do an occasional brake fluid exchange just in case.
Not true. Even if you did preemptive pad changes, there's still a good chance that the rotors could be worn out. This is becoming very common late model cars, especially Europeans.
Also, you still have to follow all of the lubrication and burnishing procedures even if you only change the pads!
Ahh yes, how could I forget. ALWAYS flush AND bleed your brake system with every pad change.
Quote:
Not true.
Don't you mean to insert "necessarily" in there??
OTOH, I may just imagine that I do virtually none of that ..and don't cut rotors and ...whatever ...and have not done it in my lifetime ...nor on one vehicle for 140k.
Then again, I do think that I punch in the wrong portal coordinates from time to time. Many things are not consistent with my home base universe.
Europeans ..what do they know
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
None of you guys, as far as I remember, ever mentions that checking rotor runout should be considered a standard procedure when replacing pads, and of course when replacing rotors. Just a very slight "wobble" will increase brake pad wear unnecessarily. That's also why rotors that do rotate without excessive runout should always be marked before they are removed (for brake pad change etc) and mounted in the same position. Many rotors have a small hole that allows you to use a pen or punch to mark the proper rotor position on the hub.
i never reuse rotors. they are so cheap, its not worth my time to take them to get machined. for pads i use OEM, unless im going with a track pad. i will measure runout, but i dont put much time into it unless there is noticable vibration.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
I never machine rotors either. The way they designed the brake on my car the rotor lasts slightly longer than a set of pads, so pads and rotors always get replaced at the same time. However, it can happen that you have to remove the rotor, for example if a brake piston boot is torn and needs to be replaced. Some people who track their cars will swap pads before hitting the track. Checking runout is advisable each time you have access to the rotor, but not checking runout when replacing rotors means a shortcut that may cost more time and money later.
luckily pad swaps on my car take about a minute a corner. and on track i dont care about vibrations or noise. actually track pads that are quiet arent working well enough.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Checking runout is advisable each time you have access to the rotor, but not checking runout when replacing rotors means a shortcut that may cost more time and money later.
How often do you get a comeback due to a runout problem? Very rarely.
Checking runout is advisable each time you have access to the rotor, but not checking runout when replacing rotors means a shortcut that may cost more time and money later.
How often do you get a comeback due to a runout problem? Very rarely.
I saw the question of favorite brake pads and immediately thought of the pads I've been using on my 350Z enthusiast. I love and have had great success with my EBC greenstuff pads. They're composite made so they dont seem to fade, and also leave no dust on the wheels. The factory pads sucked and left tons of dust which had to be cleaned every 2 days. These last for weeks between cleaning.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
luckily pad swaps on my car take about a minute a corner. and on track i dont care about vibrations or noise. actually track pads that are quiet arent working well enough.
Where was I talking about quiet versus noisy pads?
luckily pad swaps on my car take about a minute a corner. and on track i dont care about vibrations or noise. actually track pads that are quiet arent working well enough.
Where was I talking about quiet versus noisy pads?
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Checking runout is advisable each time you have access to the rotor, but not checking runout when replacing rotors means a shortcut that may cost more time and money later.
How often do you get a comeback due to a runout problem? Very rarely.
Fine by me if you cut corners, Wan. That doesn't make it a sensible choice in my book, though.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Checking runout is advisable each time you have access to the rotor, but not checking runout when replacing rotors means a shortcut that may cost more time and money later.
How often do you get a comeback due to a runout problem? Very rarely.
Fine by me if you cut corners, Wan. That doesn't make it a sensible choice in my book, though.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Checking runout is advisable each time you have access to the rotor, but not checking runout when replacing rotors means a shortcut that may cost more time and money later.
How often do you get a comeback due to a runout problem? Very rarely.
Fine by me if you cut corners, Wan. That doesn't make it a sensible choice in my book, though.
I don't wait until 14k to change my oil though, unlike you.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Checking runout is advisable each time you have access to the rotor, but not checking runout when replacing rotors means a shortcut that may cost more time and money later.
How often do you get a comeback due to a runout problem? Very rarely.
Fine by me if you cut corners, Wan. That doesn't make it a sensible choice in my book, though.
I don't wait until 14k to change my oil though, unlike you.
- Status
Similar threads
