CFL's simply don't last all that long...
- Thread starter Pablo
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They dont last at all in applications where they do a lot of cycling or extreme temperatures such as out doors. All of our out door lights were CFL at the beginning of winter. In both automatic (motion) and manual installations. All of them are dead. The ones in the automatic lamps were the first to go. Additionally, when it was cold, they would light off very dimly, and take several minutes to warm up to full brightness. Not acceptable performance.
Im not against CFLs, but they seem to have some very specific conditions to work in. Normal room temps, high duty cycle. Short cycling like in a motion lamp or a bathroom; kills them sure as a .357.
Im not against CFLs, but they seem to have some very specific conditions to work in. Normal room temps, high duty cycle. Short cycling like in a motion lamp or a bathroom; kills them sure as a .357.
I put a 60w equivalent cfl outside my shops' man door 5 years ago. Of late, it has been like *2* outside and it has yet to fail...
Well, they do take less juice to run,and they do mostly last longer than incandescent bulbs. About a month ago, I was working in a cupboard on wiring. My work light was a 13 watter CFL in a clamp on work light. It had decent light and didnt heat up like a regular 60 watt would have.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I've had mixed results with the compact fluorescent bulbs.
I started changing the bulbs over in 2001 or so when some of our "new with the house" incandescent bulbs started burning out. In areas where they frequently get turned off and on they only seemed to last a year or so. 3 way compact fluorescent bulbs also seemed to have a very short lifespan.
There are other areas that some of the bulbs are in the 6-8 year old range. Surprisingly, the areas that they seem to do well are outside (5 lanterns on the front of the house) and in the garage. A minor drawback-when it's cold they do take a minute or two before they're fully bright. These are lights we normally leave on when not at home, or I'll often leave the garage lights on for my wife if she's coming home after dark.
There are a couple other areas that the seem to do well-the light over the stairway is often left on, and lamps that get turned on in the evening and left on until we go to bed still have the 6-8 year old CFL's.
Just from my experience I'd have to conclude that they do well with "turn it on and leave it on" fixtures and lamps, but don't do well in areas where the light is frequently cycled. I also don't think the 3-way CFL's do well either.
For those applications I have a stockpile of regular incandescent bulbs that should last until something better comes along.
What I've heard too....agree with this also...
I've had mixed results with the compact fluorescent bulbs.
I started changing the bulbs over in 2001 or so when some of our "new with the house" incandescent bulbs started burning out. In areas where they frequently get turned off and on they only seemed to last a year or so. 3 way compact fluorescent bulbs also seemed to have a very short lifespan.
There are other areas that some of the bulbs are in the 6-8 year old range. Surprisingly, the areas that they seem to do well are outside (5 lanterns on the front of the house) and in the garage. A minor drawback-when it's cold they do take a minute or two before they're fully bright. These are lights we normally leave on when not at home, or I'll often leave the garage lights on for my wife if she's coming home after dark.
There are a couple other areas that the seem to do well-the light over the stairway is often left on, and lamps that get turned on in the evening and left on until we go to bed still have the 6-8 year old CFL's.
Just from my experience I'd have to conclude that they do well with "turn it on and leave it on" fixtures and lamps, but don't do well in areas where the light is frequently cycled. I also don't think the 3-way CFL's do well either.
For those applications I have a stockpile of regular incandescent bulbs that should last until something better comes along.
What I've heard too....agree with this also...
While I do believe the save energy..they also...
Are made in slave wage China
Have a very unpleasant light color quality
A small amount of fast flicker that tires my eyes after a short period.
Dont fit in many applications (too big)
Contain mercury. Standard incandesants do not.
Hopefully the LED style bulb will finally become the norm.
Are made in slave wage China
Have a very unpleasant light color quality
A small amount of fast flicker that tires my eyes after a short period.
Dont fit in many applications (too big)
Contain mercury. Standard incandesants do not.
Hopefully the LED style bulb will finally become the norm.
I've had mixed results also. Only place they seem to last is in regular table lamps that get left on for awhile. This seems to be their advantage. They do not last in the bathroom. They do not last outside or in the garage. Even the pricy "outdoor" version did not last very long. RIPOFF. What'd they do just change the color, write "outdoor" on the package and charge more?
CFLs remind me of a diesel engine. They take awhile to warm up and they do not like to be short cycled. Under the right conditions, they last a long time. Used in the wrong manner they break right away.
CFLs remind me of a diesel engine. They take awhile to warm up and they do not like to be short cycled. Under the right conditions, they last a long time. Used in the wrong manner they break right away.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Just from my experience I'd have to conclude that they do well with "turn it on and leave it on" fixtures and lamps, but don't do well in areas where the light is frequently cycled. I also don't think the 3-way CFL's do well either.
That's exactly how most people didn't get the rated life out of CFL, they turn them on/off whenever they enter and leave a room. I still keep incandescent in some bathroom, but those others that I replace with CFL, I see them lasting multiple times longer than incandescent. Replacing light bulbs in apartment complex used to be a weekly thing, and after we switch to CFL it is an every 3 month thing.
You also do get what you pay for. Buy the cheapest CFL that your utility subsidized for (cost you near 0), and they won't last long. Buy the premium stuff and they last a long time.
Just from my experience I'd have to conclude that they do well with "turn it on and leave it on" fixtures and lamps, but don't do well in areas where the light is frequently cycled. I also don't think the 3-way CFL's do well either.
That's exactly how most people didn't get the rated life out of CFL, they turn them on/off whenever they enter and leave a room. I still keep incandescent in some bathroom, but those others that I replace with CFL, I see them lasting multiple times longer than incandescent. Replacing light bulbs in apartment complex used to be a weekly thing, and after we switch to CFL it is an every 3 month thing.
You also do get what you pay for. Buy the cheapest CFL that your utility subsidized for (cost you near 0), and they won't last long. Buy the premium stuff and they last a long time.
Originally Posted By: paulo57509
Off Topic: This is similar to what is happening with the plastic shopping bag situation in CA. They essentially eliminated the use of paper bags in favor of plastic bags to save trees. Now they want to ban the plastic bags because they can't be easily recycled.
1) As of last week I was still able to get paper bags in groceries store.
2) They still give out plastic bags, but in some area (i.e. San Francisco), they want to limit it to the bio-degradable ones.
Off Topic: This is similar to what is happening with the plastic shopping bag situation in CA. They essentially eliminated the use of paper bags in favor of plastic bags to save trees. Now they want to ban the plastic bags because they can't be easily recycled.
1) As of last week I was still able to get paper bags in groceries store.
2) They still give out plastic bags, but in some area (i.e. San Francisco), they want to limit it to the bio-degradable ones.
I started phasing in CFL bulbs 5-7 years ago. In all that time, I never really paid attention to the instructions and installed them in bathrooms, outside, in sealed fixtures, etc. and only a couple have burned out. The ones that burned out still went over ~ 3 years and were outside on dusk to dawn flood lights.
My only complaints with them are a) they take too long to light up in cold areas (attic & garage); and b) I prefer the yellowish-light from an incandescent to read with.
I really don't understand the vastly different experiences people are having with them. I live in 100+ year old house with a mish-mash of wiring types (K&T, BX, NM, etc.), most of which are ungrounded, on overloaded circuits that have voltage drops whenever the refrigerator, central air, or microwave kicks in. It's not ideal by any means. I also use them in old fixtures with mogul-adapters, as well as sealed fixtures, in very humid areas, etc. I've never really paid attention to any brands and buy them when needed from Lowes, Home Depot, or Walmart.
It seems like if anyone should be having problems, it would be me.
My only complaints with them are a) they take too long to light up in cold areas (attic & garage); and b) I prefer the yellowish-light from an incandescent to read with.
I really don't understand the vastly different experiences people are having with them. I live in 100+ year old house with a mish-mash of wiring types (K&T, BX, NM, etc.), most of which are ungrounded, on overloaded circuits that have voltage drops whenever the refrigerator, central air, or microwave kicks in. It's not ideal by any means. I also use them in old fixtures with mogul-adapters, as well as sealed fixtures, in very humid areas, etc. I've never really paid attention to any brands and buy them when needed from Lowes, Home Depot, or Walmart.
It seems like if anyone should be having problems, it would be me.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Even worse than that, some on dual switches have been inadvertently been left powered and in particular the flood variety lamp base gets quite warm even though there is no evidence of visible photon output. Now that's stupid as well.
Huh? You have them turned off on a three-way switch setup and they stay hot? Sounds like a current leakage issue to me. If the lamp is electrically isolated via switching, and there is still current flowing, you have a problem.
If they are just left on during the day not adding much light, that is just a dumb issue that was existing long before CFLs...
No that's not it. Please re-read. And think about it. The CFL bulbs consume power even after they are burnt out. Power is left ON by someone in the family, because naturally because the bulb is not working......
Quote:
1) CFL burns out.
2) Power to light gets left on inadvertently before I have time to get ladder tomorrow and change the bulb.
3) 4 days later, unscrew dead bulb and base is quite warm.
That is a useless waste of energy!! Thank goodness not ALL CFL's do this.
This also could be obviously a problem in multi CFL fixtures and one or two burn out and it takes a week or two to change while the others are making diminished but enough light.
I se what you are saying. That is dumb, but simply due to the fact that they do not fail open. The power electronics still are going to try to produce an excitation voltage to get the glow. I suppose there could be a sensor in there that determines what the current is versus what it should be and isolates if it doesnt pull the right current... But that adds extra expense.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Even worse than that, some on dual switches have been inadvertently been left powered and in particular the flood variety lamp base gets quite warm even though there is no evidence of visible photon output. Now that's stupid as well.
Huh? You have them turned off on a three-way switch setup and they stay hot? Sounds like a current leakage issue to me. If the lamp is electrically isolated via switching, and there is still current flowing, you have a problem.
If they are just left on during the day not adding much light, that is just a dumb issue that was existing long before CFLs...
No that's not it. Please re-read. And think about it. The CFL bulbs consume power even after they are burnt out. Power is left ON by someone in the family, because naturally because the bulb is not working......
Quote:
1) CFL burns out.
2) Power to light gets left on inadvertently before I have time to get ladder tomorrow and change the bulb.
3) 4 days later, unscrew dead bulb and base is quite warm.
That is a useless waste of energy!! Thank goodness not ALL CFL's do this.
This also could be obviously a problem in multi CFL fixtures and one or two burn out and it takes a week or two to change while the others are making diminished but enough light.
I se what you are saying. That is dumb, but simply due to the fact that they do not fail open. The power electronics still are going to try to produce an excitation voltage to get the glow. I suppose there could be a sensor in there that determines what the current is versus what it should be and isolates if it doesnt pull the right current... But that adds extra expense.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
That is dumb, but simply due to the fact that they do not fail open.
Every one that's failed on me has failed open, complete with a cloud of smelly smoke.
That is dumb, but simply due to the fact that they do not fail open.
Every one that's failed on me has failed open, complete with a cloud of smelly smoke.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
That is dumb, but simply due to the fact that they do not fail open.
Every one that's failed on me has failed open, complete with a cloud of smelly smoke.
fail open means the circuit is open, no current going through, no energy used, no heat generated. Think of it as the thermostat in your engine fail and block all the coolant circulating. It doesn't mean the CFL explode.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
That is dumb, but simply due to the fact that they do not fail open.
Every one that's failed on me has failed open, complete with a cloud of smelly smoke.
fail open means the circuit is open, no current going through, no energy used, no heat generated. Think of it as the thermostat in your engine fail and block all the coolant circulating. It doesn't mean the CFL explode.
They're a mixed bag. The last commercial building I built five or six years ago, I lamped completely with flourescents, many of them CFL's.
A few of the house cfl's that run 24/7 are still in service. Most have been replaced. I can't tell that the type of light fixture or quality of power has any meaningful outcome on service life. All of my panels are protected with conditioners from this company:
http://www.tnbpowersolutions.com/surge_protection
The variation in product quality like so much China junk is just all over the place. I have no opinion on whether or not they have saved money, which was the actual objective.
A few of the house cfl's that run 24/7 are still in service. Most have been replaced. I can't tell that the type of light fixture or quality of power has any meaningful outcome on service life. All of my panels are protected with conditioners from this company:
http://www.tnbpowersolutions.com/surge_protection
The variation in product quality like so much China junk is just all over the place. I have no opinion on whether or not they have saved money, which was the actual objective.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
fail open means the circuit is open, no current going through, no energy used, no heat generated. Think of it as the thermostat in your engine fail and block all the coolant circulating. It doesn't mean the CFL explode.
Yes, and in my experience, the circuit is open when the buzzing noises stop and so does the smoke, so I call that failed open.
Of the CFL failures I've had, that is the most common. I did have one, just one, that was intermittent--it would only light up when you tapped on it. I'm not counting the ones where the bulb has physically broken, although my experience is that those too fail open with buzzing noises and smoke shortly prior to the open.
fail open means the circuit is open, no current going through, no energy used, no heat generated. Think of it as the thermostat in your engine fail and block all the coolant circulating. It doesn't mean the CFL explode.
Yes, and in my experience, the circuit is open when the buzzing noises stop and so does the smoke, so I call that failed open.
Of the CFL failures I've had, that is the most common. I did have one, just one, that was intermittent--it would only light up when you tapped on it. I'm not counting the ones where the bulb has physically broken, although my experience is that those too fail open with buzzing noises and smoke shortly prior to the open.
JHZR2
Staff member
Fortunately no smelly smoke on the one that went bad in our house in the kitchen fixture. They should fail as you describe (less the smelly smoke, I guess it is a capacitor gassing?), but apparently not in Pablo's case. I guess different makes/mfrs fail differently...
I think the smoke is a transistor or a circuit board trace burning up. Not sure, I've never opened one up after that.
With rare exception, they're lasting us 2-2.5 years or more and the lifespan generally seems to be determined by how often they are power cycled. We use them in every fixture in the house. For me, that's good enough. My light bill is much lower, and I don't have to get irritated if my wife leaves one of the lights on. I have never had one smoke when it failed. I like that some brands are more yellowish and others are more pure white - there's not usually a cost difference, so I just buy both kinds and use them where they are best suited.
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