M1 Mac First Impressions

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I think it’s because most people just want “good enough” and they’re not pushing their computers hard enough to ever really notice the difference between 8gb and 16gb. I do agree with you however, a premium priced machine, even the Mac Mini, should start at 16gb these days.
The only thing is the Mac mini is premium priced with 16GB of Ram for $1099. However if you want, you can buy one for $899 with 8Gb.
The average American family will not know the difference and the Apple will be faster then any $900 windows computer with double the ram @ 16GB. So the premium price Mac mini to me, does come with 16GB of memory and cost $1099.
Not only that but soon to be all Macs come with processors and far better SSD system that blows the doors off anything in it price class. Maybe that is why memory doesnt matter to the average American family ? (not the techies in this forum!)
 
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I don't know, maybe I'm too cheap to understand all the tricks being used to save $30 of memory like, swapping in and out of SSD and compress and decompress memory in between applications when I can just throw $30 at it and call it a day.

Maybe I'm just too much of an engineer that couldn't see past the sum of all components to understand the beauty of these internal design. I don't know, many people like mechanical watch and to me I see a watch and I like them to be accurate and cheap and efficient instead of complicated. I just couldn't see why they spend $1000 on a Mac and then only give you 8GB when you can buy a $600 machine and slap another $30 worth of memory at it instead. My dad got a $450 Ryzen 7 4700G with 256GB of SSD and 8GB of ram, I throw another $25 worth of 8GB ram on it and now I can sit back and not participate in the debate of fast DDR fast SSD with compression and swapping vs brute force 16GB no swap no compression. I certainly am not the kind of person who would recommend a beautiful mechanical watch for average day to day wearer, I would recommend either keep using their smart phone or a quartz watch like the G Shock.

I don't know, maybe I'm just too dumb or broke to understand it, maybe I'm just not a mechanical watch collector to understand the beauty of all the inner work. I am sure they are worth what they are for a reason and I'm not an average consumer, but it is just weird to me why anyone would not future prove their $1000 purchase with another $30, unless that $30 is really like this? Am I searching it correctly on Amazon? I think for Apple they should really set the baseline to 16GB instead of 8GB, but what is done is done.

View attachment 47510
Maybe you are overthinking it?
Being you are well informed on computers maybe its just Windows computers you are most informed on?
Maybe not understanding the needs of a family buying a far faster then anything Apple Mac mini then any windows machine for $900, with superior processor and SSD drive?
Maybe not aware, you can have your 16Gb of memory for $1099 if you want it?

Im not sure why the post of the two Mac mini's and the price? Im not being funny here, not sure why the units are posted.

Americans love choices, no different in the Windows world or any other world on planet earth.
Mac mini - starts at $899 for the average family its a great price point and far faster then any windows machine in this price range.
If you want more memory you can have it for $1099 16Gb
You also have the choice of 2 larger SSD's if you want.
None of this is different then any other Windows Machine.

What some people think is expensive others do not, what some see as no value in something, others see a lot of value.
Can you guess which camp I am in:unsure:?

Hee hee, dont answer that!
 
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Yeah $1099 would be more realistic of a price, I almost jump out of a chair when I saw the $1699 listing on Amazon. When you spend too much time optimizing stuff you tend to get stuck overthinking things. That's like how people overthinking 0w20 and towing or turbo inline 4 vs V6.

Cheers, enjoy the Mac, I'm sure it is awesome.
 
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Yeah $1099 would be more realistic of a price, I almost jump out of a chair when I saw the $1699 listing on Amazon. When you spend too much time optimizing stuff you tend to get stuck overthinking things. That's like how people overthinking 0w20 and towing or turbo inline 4 vs V6.

Cheers, enjoy the Mac, I'm sure it is awesome.
Trust me, I drive myself nuts overthinking things. Hey, glad we can have a discussion because that is all I am really doing.
Lets face it, Macs are expensive. I USED to hate Apple and think they are retarted and overpriced for decades until just 3 years ago. AS you know I was in the security business for a while and much of that was using peoples phones and desk top computers configuring and setting up alarm systems and cameras.
Some of the affluent areas I worked everyone owned a Mac Desktop, I got to like using them in their homes, they just worked and made my day MUCH easier, started to see some value because the **** things worked, then Windows 10 came along and after 25 years of windows I was getting sick of have all this windows crap preloaded that I never had use for, some of the stuff windows wouldn't let you remove and first Windows 10 with every freaking week constant updates, so that is how I ended up here being an Apple person, even my OWN family brother and sister threw it back at me how I bashed Apple all the time.

Anyway, one thing for sure, if your like a lot of people in here no doubt, well versed with computers there is a lot more things you can do with Windows. Yeah, the whole soldering in of components is sore spot for many, but I guess they dont care, not the market they are looking for or they see the day that computers are just like a toaster, use it, throw it away, time will tell if they are right, a lot of electronics sadly are that way now, sadly.

Apple sucks what money they can out of the public, its their job, like any company, I mean they are successful, Im not thrilled with the prices of a lot of their products but they do seem to work well so not much guess work. I enjoyed 25 year with Windows, until Windows 10, now I guess for lack of better words I am sitting back and just going a long for the ride. *L* I ll never pay for a Magic Keyboard or Mouse ... *L*

BTW- wow, perfect example with car engines, that thought came to me while at work today. Oh, yes, I am definitely no replacement for displacement person, not that this is correct thinking but much rather the V6 then a turbo, maybe I keep my vehicles to long or maybe to old fashion, last boat was a bit heavy at 5000 lbs, 08 Durango with a 4.7 (v8) loved it.
Now, new to us 3000 lb boat, chevy (I dont even know the engine displacement yet) V6, tows perfect for the boat.
I know there are exceptions to that rule, Im just not one of them *L*
 

bunnspecial

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just couldn't see why they spend $1000 on a Mac and then only give you 8GB when you can buy a $600 machine and slap another $30 worth of memory at it instead. My dad got a $450 Ryzen 7 4700G with 256GB of SSD and 8GB of ram, I throw another $25 worth of 8GB ram on it and now I can sit back and not participate in the debate of fast DDR fast SSD with compression and swapping vs brute force 16GB no swap no compression. I certainly am not the kind of person who would recommend a beautiful mechanical watch for average day to day wearer, I would recommend either keep using their smart phone or a quartz watch like the G Shock.

I don't know, maybe I'm just too dumb or broke to understand it, maybe I'm just not a mechanical watch collector to understand the beauty of all the inner work. I am sure they are worth what they are for a reason and I'm not an average consumer, but it is just weird to me why anyone would not future prove their $1000 purchase with another $30, unless that $30 is really like this? Am I searching it correctly on Amazon? I think for Apple they should really set the baseline to 16GB instead of 8GB, but what is done is done.

First of all, there's a lot to the price of Macs, and if you compare like for like specs and construction quality, the prices aren't terribly out of line. Look at the Dell XPS and Lenovo Thinkpad T series as examples, although the Thinkpad in particular has a leg up in how customizable it is. Similarly, the Mac Pro is a workstation-class machine, and the price isn't crazy for that quality system. It's probably just the most visible workstation to consumers, which is why the price seems nuts, and admittedly the people who actually need that level of system is a tiny portion of total computer sales.

With a Mac, you're not JUST buying the hardware, but buying into the ecosystem. With the M1 Macs, you're going a step beyond and getting a premium ARM powered computer with its associated benefits(insane performance/watt, cool temperatures, and crazy battery life on portables) but without getting a seriously handicapped system(Chromebook) or poor software support(Surface).

I don't disagree, though, that Apple should be making 16gb standard and not forcing so much swap. It's a $200 upcharge on an otherwise comparable system. I'd have paid it ahead of time, despite reviews to the contrary, were in not for the fact that for several reasons(namely a big pile of gift cards) I needed to buy this from Best Buy to make it happen and the 16gb option isn't available from them.

And yes, every single time I wake my computer from sleep, I beg for more RAM as the useage goes crazy and I have to wait for it to swap out. It's no improvement from my 2012 MBP(with 16gb) in that regard, and that's saying something considering that quite literally everything about the system is faster, including the swap speed.
The average American family will not know the difference and the Apple will be faster then any $900 windows computer with double the ram @ 16GB. So the premium price Mac mini to me, does come with 16GB of memory and cost $1099.
Not only that but soon to be all Macs come with processors and far better SSD system that blows the doors off anything in it price class. Maybe that is why memory doesnt matter to the average American family ? (not the techies in this forum!)

You keep trotting out this "average American family" trope. I'd go one step further and say that in 2021, many folks who need to do email, web browsing, and Facebook are better served by an iPad or other tablet, possibly with a keyboard.

In 2021, folks buying a computer most likely need something beyond web browsing, or at least are getting heavy in their browsing habits, word processing, and the like(even a lot of the documents I type would likely take me 2x as long on a tablet given the number of special characters and things that Macs make easy to add). Still, though, maybe we can accept it that folks won't miss what they never had(16gb). Still, though, even when I'm not pushing my computer, I can definitely see RAM related slow-downs. I guarantee you everyone sees them, they just may not recognize what they are and 80% of the time you're trucking along fine.

Still, though, @OVERKILL and I are reporting going over 8gb with web browsing. You threw out my datapoint by saying I was using a browser no one uses. Overkill gave you data from a browser that quite literally has over 60% of the desktop market, so that one is a hard one to toss out.

(BTW, I'm going to try Opera or Vivaldi and see how they do since so many sites are designed to render properly in Chrome/Chromium browsers and I refuse to put Chrome on this computer).

To be honest at this point, you're sounding like the worst kind of Apple apologist, and the kind who in a lot of ways nearly killed the brand in the 90s and 2000s. Read through my comments in this thread. I don't think anyone can doubt my Mac user credentials based on what I've said in this thread and my history of comments here. I'm 100% immersed in the Mac ecosystem, but that doesn't mean I think Apple is flawless in their design decisions.
 
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First of all, there's a lot to the price of Macs, and if you compare like for like specs and construction quality, the prices aren't terribly out of line. Look at the Dell XPS and Lenovo Thinkpad T series as examples, although the Thinkpad in particular has a leg up in how customizable it is. Similarly, the Mac Pro is a workstation-class machine, and the price isn't crazy for that quality system. It's probably just the most visible workstation to consumers, which is why the price seems nuts, and admittedly the people who actually need that level of system is a tiny portion of total computer sales.

With a Mac, you're not JUST buying the hardware, but buying into the ecosystem. With the M1 Macs, you're going a step beyond and getting a premium ARM powered computer with its associated benefits(insane performance/watt, cool temperatures, and crazy battery life on portables) but without getting a seriously handicapped system(Chromebook) or poor software support(Surface).

I don't disagree, though, that Apple should be making 16gb standard and not forcing so much swap. It's a $200 upcharge on an otherwise comparable system. I'd have paid it ahead of time, despite reviews to the contrary, were in not for the fact that for several reasons(namely a big pile of gift cards) I needed to buy this from Best Buy to make it happen and the 16gb option isn't available from them.

And yes, every single time I wake my computer from sleep, I beg for more RAM as the useage goes crazy and I have to wait for it to swap out. It's no improvement from my 2012 MBP(with 16gb) in that regard, and that's saying something considering that quite literally everything about the system is faster, including the swap speed.


You keep trotting out this "average American family" trope. I'd go one step further and say that in 2021, many folks who need to do email, web browsing, and Facebook are better served by an iPad or other tablet, possibly with a keyboard.

In 2021, folks buying a computer most likely need something beyond web browsing, or at least are getting heavy in their browsing habits, word processing, and the like(even a lot of the documents I type would likely take me 2x as long on a tablet given the number of special characters and things that Macs make easy to add). Still, though, maybe we can accept it that folks won't miss what they never had(16gb). Still, though, even when I'm not pushing my computer, I can definitely see RAM related slow-downs. I guarantee you everyone sees them, they just may not recognize what they are and 80% of the time you're trucking along fine.

Still, though, @OVERKILL and I are reporting going over 8gb with web browsing. You threw out my datapoint by saying I was using a browser no one uses. Overkill gave you data from a browser that quite literally has over 60% of the desktop market, so that one is a hard one to toss out.

(BTW, I'm going to try Opera or Vivaldi and see how they do since so many sites are designed to render properly in Chrome/Chromium browsers and I refuse to put Chrome on this computer).

To be honest at this point, you're sounding like the worst kind of Apple apologist, and the kind who in a lot of ways nearly killed the brand in the 90s and 2000s. Read through my comments in this thread. I don't think anyone can doubt my Mac user credentials based on what I've said in this thread and my history of comments here. I'm 100% immersed in the Mac ecosystem, but that doesn't mean I think Apple is flawless in their design decisions.
I’ll go one step further that your thoughts are wrong on who should buy what based on what you think.

Your credentials mean squat if you think I or the public have to settle for or is better served with a tablet and an add on keyboard because you do more intensive work. In fact, that throws your “credentials” right out the window
 

bunnspecial

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I’ll go one step further that your thoughts are wrong on who should buy what based on what you think.

Your credentials mean squat if you think I or the public have to settle for or is better served with a tablet and an add on keyboard because you do more intensive work. In fact, that throws your “credentials” right out the window

You're the one repeating the same argument over and over trying to speak for what "the everyday user" needs, and you don't seem to have any experience with higher specced systems to back that up. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I've done upgrades for(which is quite a few) or have advised them on buying/rebuying a new computer(after being unhappy with their initial person) has seen an immediate improvement from more RAM. Of course that was back when Apple would actually let you do that.

One of the most striking ones was a 2011 27" iMac that had ground to a hault. It was a normal, every day family's main computer that the parents browsed the net with and the kids did homework on and played Minecraft...there again 100% typical home use and hardly "power user." At the time, SSDs were relatively expensive and they didn't have/couldn't afford the $400 or so a 1tb SSD would have cost, so on my advice we opted for a high end hybrid(1tb 7200 spinner with an integrated 8gb SSD-they were a step up from pure spinners and a lot less expensive at the time than SSDs) and threw 16gb RAM in it. They quite literally had a new computer, and the last I heard they were still using it.

I'm typing this from a base spec M1. It needs more RAM, period, no matter what tricks Apple uses. Apple can't defy the laws of computing.

I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but to be frank you are the one posting in this thread who is plainly denying the need for more RAM despite a lot of evidence that several of you have given to the contrary. You're consistently making excuses for why our datapoints aren't valid.

I can't speak for Overkill, but just because I do more RAM/CPU intensive tasks doesn't mean I can't turn them off and do things similar to what an "average every day home user" would do. As I sit here now, I have a browser with BITOG, two other fora, Ebay, and Facebook open. I have Apple Mail, Messages, Apple Photos, and MS Word open. Those processes are forcing my computer into memory compression. Please identify exactly what in my current use scenario is not what a "typical home user" might do.
 
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^^^ It all means nothing, many people are happy with base model machines and 8 gb of memory, I would like to ask you, why am I so happy with my base 8GB M1 MacBook Air and you so unhappy with your base 8GB MacBook M1 Pro?

I guess I selected the right computer for my needs and based on all these posts you did not. Why is that if you are so qualified? You should have waited to purchase and for them to be in stock.
However you continue to hammer away that you are a professional that knows better then me.
I am posting this in here for the last time because I never had any intention of battling someone who refuses to accept how thrilled I am with my two Macs, 1 M1 laptop and 1 Mac mini i5 both 8gb models.

There isnt many, if any, companies like Dell, Hp, Lenovo or Apple whom do not offer a base model machine, almost all of them except Apple can be some of the slowest junk some people could ever want. Apple base Machine will always satisfy that kind of buyer.

You keep speaking of compression, I cant help you with that but all I will say is my base model Apple M1 to me is a fair and good price for all its features and the speed will blow away any Windows machine near its quality and price. Im tired of speaking out the benefits I find from the machine and I posted them all in this thread already. Ill never go back to a Windows machine, at least in this decade.

No matter what how much compression is taking place based on your posts, it wouldn't matter IF my machine does the same (which we dont know, nor do I care) because my machine screams fast compared to any Windows machine near its price, once last time, keeping in mind its the whole package, awesome keyboard, display, sound, battery life, zero heat, zero fan, Mac OS, awesome aluminum case, typical Apple product and if you do intensive work then go for the next 1 or 2 models up.

Its not even right calling this a "Base Model" Freaking fastest notebook processor on planet earth in a base model machine or darn close to it, thow in the Mac OS and talking processors on a Mac are pointless because nothing will be faster, goes for Apples SSD's too.
So all a consumer needs do is select what level of Memory they want. I have 4 active Windows computers in my home, 2 notebooks, 2 desktops and 2 active Apples, Mac mini and MacBook Air M1,
As a consumer Ill never buy another Windows even though, again, my wife has the newest Lenovo Yoga I5 12 Mb, 512 SSD (maybe 1 TB, cant remember)notebook that I got her for Christmas while she got me the Mac. Its not a budget Model but not the most expensive by any means, it does have that new Intel EVO and the price on sale not all that much less then the Apple

Anyway, like you say you are well qualified with computers, I am well qualified as a consumer for the last 25 years with computers, back to the days of swapping mother boards and Hd', modems, video cards on my personal computers and qualified to say, I dont need any more then what I have, the speed just amazes me, almost still, on a daily basis.

Never intended getting involved in this daily barrage of posts, not worth it, but maybe it is to the ones who read these in helping them to decide what do buy. that goes both ways, base model or higher model.
No one will ever convince me that I am not absolutely thrilled with 2 entry level model Macs. I have never owned two faster computers.

Peace ...
 
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bunnspecial

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I'm not claiming to be a professional.

And yes my M1 is stupid fast. In general use, it's the fastest computer I've ever used. I'm thrilled with it.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize it could be better, and as I said I really think that everyone can benefit from 16gb and it's what Apple should be making as standard.

I don't know why you're taking this so personally. I've never argued that it's not an incredible package. It would be an even more incredible package if Apple didn't play business as usual and underspec their base systems, then charge big bucks to bring them up to what they should have been in the first place. The whole low spec base systems thing wasn't a big deal when you could upgrade it yourself(back in 2011, I wasn't about to pay an extra $200 to go to 8gb of RAM in my MBP even though the 4gb it came with was inadequate-instead I bought and installed 8gb myself), but it is when you're stuck with what you bought forever.

I've just paid $1500 for a computer that I'm mostly happy with, and as I said 16gb is an option for me. I think I've earned the right to critique it, especially given that I felt okay at the time of purchase about 8gb by folks claiming Apple had somehow worked memory magic and made 8gb feel like more. Short answer is, they haven't, and I'd have happily spent $1700 for a 16gb model if I'd been able to.
 
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Guys, let's just agree to disagree instead of escalate this into a flaming war.

There is a reason many benchmark exists for hardware. People's feel can be subjective, so could their opinion of what is "fast" "average" "power" "expensive" "enough" "efficient" "beautiful". Professional however is an objective word, if you use it to make a living you are a professional. There is no argument about it, and it doesn't mean you are one level above the amateur or you are better, just that you are making a living out of it.

So what does it mean when people are arguing over those subjective terms above? Nothing. We are hurt when others disagree on them, that's all. Just sit back and relax, we don't need to go defensive about it.

FYI I worked for this fruit company for 7 years and have 2 Macs on my desk for that time, running Parallel and OSX, I know how it works and how it behaves. I like it and I hate it sometimes because they do have a lot of quirks and a lot of trade offs. Imagine you tell your boss you need more ram to run something but NOPE. The model you want is not something they gave out to employee and now you have to run around with 2 laptops full of aluminums. I hated that. Imagine you don't have a right click button you can use quickly to get things done and you throw your magic (or is it mighty) mouse into the trash and get your old Logitech mouse from home to get things done, yup, I hate that stupid mouse too. Aluminum unibody is nice until you are typing on it all day and your palm is on the cold metal all day. It sucks. I like that Dell Precision has aluminum outer cover and the inside touch surface is plastic (they claim it is carbon fiber but I think that's a bit much to call it that). So yeah, there are good and bad in the OSX, I like some aspect of it and I hate some aspect of it, but they are never bullet proof and they do get into the spinning color wheel once in a while too, and updates do come pretty often as well just like Windows. Anyways, I'm just a nerdy engineer who put my MBP in plastic bags when I travel between buildings because of back pain, and my wife warns me if Steve Jobs or Jon Ives see me they might fire me because it is an insult to them.

I've already stated why I believe 16GB is the way to go in a new purchase in 2020 and likely will make you happier right now, instead of 3 years down the road when it the standard becomes 16GB. I hope I am objective about it and didn't insult anyone along the way. Cheers.
 
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OVERKILL

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I’ll go one step further that your thoughts are wrong on who should buy what based on what you think.

Your credentials mean squat if you think I or the public have to settle for or is better served with a tablet and an add on keyboard because you do more intensive work. In fact, that throws your “credentials” right out the window

You are taking his comments WAY out of context and in doing so, getting offended for personal reasons that really aren't germane to the discussion.

Let's try and make this less complex, BOTH of the following can be true:
- The M1 is an amazingly fast system in its own right, even with base-level specs
- Apple should have shipped it with more RAM as most modern browsers are going to result in a ton of swapping

My MBP, running Big Sur, is currently using 9.35GB of 16GB, 7.04GB which is consumed by Apps, 5GB of which is Chrome. I'm also running Outlook, so this is a pretty "typical" memory load. If I fired up Parallels, I'd be deep into the installed RAM on this computer, but let's ignore that since you'd like to focus on Average Joe.

This, my present scenario, is a pretty "Average Joe" one, similar to what was described by @bunnspecial . My kids all have tons of tabs open in Chrome, which they use for school, and it doesn't matter if it's a Mac or a PC (we have both) Chrome likes to use a lot of memory and, as @bunnspecial has noted several times now, it's the most popular browser out there.

To make this a car analogy:
Hop in a base Tesla Model 3 and it will surprise you at how fast it is, particularly if you are coming from something more pedestrian. Now, hop in the "Performance" variant and your perspective on the base 3 shifts completely because the Performance version is that much faster again.

So, just because the M1 with 8GB feels amazing doesn't mean that it wouldn't feel even faster with more RAM, follow? So yes, is the base Tesla fast enough for Average Joe and faster than his previous DD? Definitely. Would Average Joe find the Performance version even faster? Also yes. Both can be true.

On some of the other comparisons being made here:
We bought my daughter an iPad for Christmas and she also has the Apple Pencil. We bought my mom an iPad for Christmas the previous year I believe. Both use them in place of their laptops in a significant capacity. HOWEVER, both still go back to using their laptops for serious typing and other tasks that the laptop is still better for. So yes, an iPad can replace a computer for a significant portion of what a lot of home users do, that statement isn't wrong. But there are also scenarios where a laptop is clearly better, so having that choice is beneficial. My mom's usage profile is likely 80/20 iPad/Laptop if that's an indication.

OT: I don't get the hate for Windows 10 or PC's. Both of my main computers are Macs, both of them have Windows 10 VM's on them for stuff that doesn't work on Mac OS. My kids have access to both at home, my daughter prefers my wife's old MBP, my two sons prefer their PC's, my eldest has an ASUS ROG gaming laptop, which is what he wanted for Christmas whereas my daughter wanted the iPad. My other son has an older HP ProBook with a 480GB SSD in it and 16GB of RAM. They all have iPhones now (eldest used to have an Android phone) and have abandoned their old Android tablets. My wife gave up her old iPad and I got her a Macbook Air to replace her old MBP.

Choice is good.
 

bunnspecial

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You are taking his comments WAY out of context and in doing so, getting offended for personal reasons that really aren't germane to the discussion.

Let's try and make this less complex, BOTH of the following can be true:
- The M1 is an amazingly fast system in its own right, even with base-level specs
- Apple should have shipped it with more RAM as most modern browsers are going to result in a ton of swapping

My MBP, running Big Sur, is currently using 9.35GB of 16GB, 7.04GB which is consumed by Apps, 5GB of which is Chrome. I'm also running Outlook, so this is a pretty "typical" memory load. If I fired up Parallels, I'd be deep into the installed RAM on this computer, but let's ignore that since you'd like to focus on Average Joe.

This, my present scenario, is a pretty "Average Joe" one, similar to what was described by @bunnspecial . My kids all have tons of tabs open in Chrome, which they use for school, and it doesn't matter if it's a Mac or a PC (we have both) Chrome likes to use a lot of memory and, as @bunnspecial has noted several times now, it's the most popular browser out there.

To make this a car analogy:
Hop in a base Tesla Model 3 and it will surprise you at how fast it is, particularly if you are coming from something more pedestrian. Now, hop in the "Performance" variant and your perspective on the base 3 shifts completely because the Performance version is that much faster again.

So, just because the M1 with 8GB feels amazing doesn't mean that it wouldn't feel even faster with more RAM, follow? So yes, is the base Tesla fast enough for Average Joe and faster than his previous DD? Definitely. Would Average Joe find the Performance version even faster? Also yes. Both can be true.

On some of the other comparisons being made here:
We bought my daughter an iPad for Christmas and she also has the Apple Pencil. We bought my mom an iPad for Christmas the previous year I believe. Both use them in place of their laptops in a significant capacity. HOWEVER, both still go back to using their laptops for serious typing and other tasks that the laptop is still better for. So yes, an iPad can replace a computer for a significant portion of what a lot of home users do, that statement isn't wrong. But there are also scenarios where a laptop is clearly better, so having that choice is beneficial. My mom's usage profile is likely 80/20 iPad/Laptop if that's an indication.

OT: I don't get the hate for Windows 10 or PC's. Both of my main computers are Macs, both of them have Windows 10 VM's on them for stuff that doesn't work on Mac OS. My kids have access to both at home, my daughter prefers my wife's old MBP, my two sons prefer their PC's, my eldest has an ASUS ROG gaming laptop, which is what he wanted for Christmas whereas my daughter wanted the iPad. My other son has an older HP ProBook with a 480GB SSD in it and 16GB of RAM. They all have iPhones now (eldest used to have an Android phone) and have abandoned their old Android tablets. My wife gave up her old iPad and I got her a Macbook Air to replace her old MBP.

Choice is good.

Thank you for a really, really nice summary and a great analogy.

Perhaps my iPad comment was extreme. I know I could never be without a computer if, for no other reason, I can't type on a tablet efficiently(and the keyboards I've used have left something to be desired). The last time I measured my typing speed, it ran 80-90wpm. On the other hand, my mom can peck out something on her iPad about as quickly as she can peck it out on a computer keyboard. Still, though, she uses a computer SOME if she needs to cuss at a bigger screen when trying to format something :)

I think in general, though, I think maybe another good summary of your comment might be "Just because something is great doesn't mean it's perfect" or maybe a milder "doesn't mean it couldn't be better."

I avoid Windows as much as possible, but like you have Windows VMs on my computer. I don't on the M1, but i have them on my MBP and MP. When I tried to stubbornly use a G5 Quad as my office PC well past its prime, I even had VirtualPC installed on it(BTW, my 2005-era G5 Quad has 16gb RAM). At work, I maintain stuff that can ONLY be operated by a Windows PC. I have one GC-MS that someone on a chromatography forum got running using WINE in Linux and macOS(using a USB-GPIB bridge) but that was more an experiment and for actual use we all like running it on a nice, stable Windows 2000 install. That's one example, but I can toss out more for Windows and why I need it.
 
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You are taking his comments WAY out of context and in doing so, getting offended for personal reasons that really aren't germane to the discussion.
...

Choice is good.
I agree, choice is good!

I do not agree with the first sentence. I think maybe some see it that way as they are blinded by the "other side" If one carefully reads the replies to my posts, it seems the non acceptance of my point of view and disregard as far as my experience with homeowners took things personal from bunns.
Its all good, wasted too much time in this thread, we all tend to sometimes get drawn into places we do not care to bother with and this is one of them because of lack of respect for other opinions drives me nuts *LOL*

People can talk blue in the face with specs and facts, figures.
MacBook Air provides as I stated before a Wonderful Experience for $1000 dollar base model if the following is important, Keyboard, display, sound, aesthetics, quality construction, killer batter life, and I could care less how it "gets there" but has killer speed.
I do not think there is a Windows machine so complete with ALL the above criteria that can match it, including, speed. I could not be more happy with it.

If your a power user, well then you should know not to buy a base model 8Gb machine of any company, but the vast majority of others will love it far more then any Windows computer with all the garbage on the market with their systems and chrome.
Maybe that is why Apple is one of the most successful companies on planet earth.
I haven't looked "in" on this thread for a while but sure for some this thread helped people make decisions on what is best for them.

Again, choice is good.
 
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bunnspecial

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Not to poke a bear again, but importing photos into Lightroom while trying to browse the web is a no-go. Memory pressure hit 90%, which I don't think I've seen since trying to run Sierra on a C2D MacBook with 2gb RAM and a 5400rpm HDD.

My 2012 MBP wouldn't bat an eye at it.

BTW, it's not my intent to discount experience but you'll note that I've spent a lot of time in this thread providing data from my system to explain my conclusion about RAM. It can be rather frustrating to do this and have someone take it so personally and also systematically try to discount my data apparently under the assumption that anyone doing anything different from what they do is not anything other than the "average home user." I'm not saying that an 8gb M1 is junk by any means, but I've put my money where my mouth is to the tune of nearly $1500(inc. tax) to conclude that Apple handicapped it.

I'm riding this one out, and I think that my "splurge" this year from my summer teaching money, if it's available, will probably be a 16" M1x or M2 or whatever the next gen is, and will hope to goodness Apple decides to give a 32gb RAM option on it.
 

OVERKILL

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I agree, choice is good!

I do not agree with the first sentence. I think maybe some see it that way as they are blinded by the "other side" If one carefully reads the replies to my posts, it seems the non acceptance of my point of view and disregard as far as my experience with homeowners took things personal from bunns.
Its all good, wasted too much time in this thread, we all tend to sometimes get drawn into places we do not care to bother with and this is one of them because of lack of respect for other opinions drives me nuts *LOL*

People can talk blue in the face with specs and facts, figures.
MacBook Air provides as I stated before a Wonderful Experience for $1000 dollar base model if the following is important, Keyboard, display, sound, aesthetics, quality construction, killer batter life, and I could care less how it "gets there" but has killer speed.
I do not think there is a Windows machine so complete with ALL the above criteria that can match it, including, speed. I could not be more happy with it.

If your a power user, well then you should know not to buy a base model 8Gb machine of any company, but the vast majority of others will love it far more then any Windows computer with all the garbage on the market with their systems and chrome.
Maybe that is why Apple is one of the most successful companies on planet earth.
I haven't looked "in" on this thread for a while but sure for some this thread helped people make decisions on what is best for them.

Again, choice is good.

It's not really opinion though or a point of view. Per my statement, just because something blows you out of the water, doesn't mean it can't be improved upon, which seems to me to be the point he had been trying to make and I am in agreement with. Based on the memory consumption figures I've seen in "typical" use, the base configuration would have benefited from having 16GB of RAM to avoid excessive swapping. While this may not be something Average Jane/Joe notices in use due to the speed of the storage medium, it doesn't mean it is't beneficial for even that pedestrian usage profile to do less swapping, follow?

To me, that's really all @bunnspecial has been trying to draw attention to and using some personal anecdotes to illustrate, which my own experience mirrors. I think he's made some significant efforts to differentiate what he considers atypical in terms of his usage profile and what might correlate well with what would be normal for a home user, as I've done as well and highlighted scenarios where the latter still runs into issues (swapping) caused by the 8GB memory configuration, even if the individual doesn't know they are experiencing the issue.

It's a bit like how some people can drive around in a car with shocks that have 200,000 miles on them and have no idea something is wrong. You point out that new shocks would be an improvement and you get pffffffffft from them and they tell you they don't drive NASCAR so they don't need them. I'm sure there are other anecdotes I could put together here to capture it as well, perhaps even better, but that's basically the sense I've gotten from this thread. Nobody is taking shots at the performance offered by the 8GB M1 model, simply noting that it would have benefited from more RAM, based on the amount of swapping being observed in use.
 

bunnspecial

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I've been seeing some reports of SSD usage runaway on these computers, and I finally buckled down and checked mine
Screen Shot 2021-03-12 at 9.49.46 PM.jpg


In a little over 1 month of daily use, I've swapped close to 50TB of data. This amounts to consuming 1% of the useable life of the SSD.

Assuming the usage trend continues, that's probably still outside the useful life of the computer, but it's still alarming.
 

OVERKILL

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I've been seeing some reports of SSD usage runaway on these computers, and I finally buckled down and checked mine
View attachment 49107

In a little over 1 month of daily use, I've swapped close to 50TB of data. This amounts to consuming 1% of the useable life of the SSD.

Assuming the usage trend continues, that's probably still outside the useful life of the computer, but it's still alarming.
Holy crap! :eek:
 
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BTW, it's not my intent to discount experience but you'll note that I've spent a lot of time in this thread providing data from my system to explain my conclusion about RAM. It can be rather frustrating to do this and have someone take it so personally and also systematically try to discount my data apparently under the assumption that anyone doing anything different from what they do is not anything other than the "average home user."
Who takes something personally is a matter of opinion. I haven't responded for a while now and will not in this thread any longer. The reason I haven't responded is the posts speak for themselves as far when things got personal. A very subjective subject regarding "personal"
Again, posts speak for themselves.
 

bunnspecial

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Who takes something personally is a matter of opinion. I haven't responded for a while now and will not in this thread any longer. The reason I haven't responded is the posts speak for themselves as far when things got personal. A very subjective subject regarding "personal"
Again, posts speak for themselves.

I still don't know why you're taking such offense at what I'm posting, but that's your perogative. As I said, though, I do find it frustrating to have someone get so incredibly enraged over me posting RAM usage information.

As another side note, Zoom is pegging my RAM HARD. I'll try to get screenshots of that the next time I can, but it's going nuts on it. In 2021, it's hard to say that Zoom is not an "average home user" or "college student" program since it(or an equivalent like Teams) is probably a primary use for a college student these days! Video conferencing is resource intensive, but it's the way of the world now.

I hope it doesn't bother you if I continue posting information on this computer as I find it and learn more about it.
 

OVERKILL

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I still don't know why you're taking such offense at what I'm posting, but that's your perogative. As I said, though, I do find it frustrating to have someone get so incredibly enraged over me posting RAM usage information.

As another side note, Zoom is pegging my RAM HARD. I'll try to get screenshots of that the next time I can, but it's going nuts on it. In 2021, it's hard to say that Zoom is not an "average home user" or "college student" program since it(or an equivalent like Teams) is probably a primary use for a college student these days! Video conferencing is resource intensive, but it's the way of the world now.

I hope it doesn't bother you if I continue posting information on this computer as I find it and learn more about it.

My daughter's online learning uses the whole Google suite, so they are using Meet for the video side of things and yes, these collaboration sessions are memory intensive for sure.
 
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