Centrifugal Oil Filter
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I had a Honda Super 90 that had this kind of filter. I don't see how it would be better than a Frantz or Trasko that filter down to submicron particles, and take out water. It's good, but better? Not unless it spins out water and coolant.
Condensation in the oil should mainly be taken care of by the crankcase ventilation system and getting the oil up to full operating temperature. Shouldn't be coolant in the oil unless there's a leak where there shouldn't be one.
Certainly there shouldn't be coolant in the oil in a Honda Super 90, because its air-cooled.
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I had a Honda Super 90 that had this kind of filter. I don't see how it would be better than a Frantz or Trasko that filter down to submicron particles, and take out water. It's good, but better? Not unless it spins out water and coolant.
Condensation in the oil should mainly be taken care of by the crankcase ventilation system and getting the oil up to full operating temperature. Shouldn't be coolant in the oil unless there's a leak where there shouldn't be one.
Certainly there shouldn't be coolant in the oil in a Honda Super 90, because its air-cooled.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I had a Honda Super 90 that had this kind of filter. I don't see how it would be better than a Frantz or Trasko that filter down to submicron particles, and take out water. It's good, but better? Not unless it spins out water and coolant.
Condensation in the oil should mainly be taken care of by the crankcase ventilation system and getting the oil up to full operating temperature. Shouldn't be coolant in the oil unless there's a leak where there shouldn't be one.
Certainly there shouldn't be coolant in the oil in a Honda Super 90, because its air-cooled.
True, but I doubt you'd use a Frantz or Trasko filter on one either.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I had a Honda Super 90 that had this kind of filter. I don't see how it would be better than a Frantz or Trasko that filter down to submicron particles, and take out water. It's good, but better? Not unless it spins out water and coolant.
Condensation in the oil should mainly be taken care of by the crankcase ventilation system and getting the oil up to full operating temperature. Shouldn't be coolant in the oil unless there's a leak where there shouldn't be one.
Certainly there shouldn't be coolant in the oil in a Honda Super 90, because its air-cooled.
True, but I doubt you'd use a Frantz or Trasko filter on one either.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Not all units available do this. Some do and that was the point Terry was making Overkill. The fact that you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around doesn't make this a crazy prospect. Think about it.
No, you think about it. Additives settling out due to temperature changes (and possibly due to chemical reactions) is completely unrelated to centrifugal separation.
And "not all units available do this." Nice deflection, keep adding to this goofy story. I suppose your NDA discussion covered that too?
Not all units available do this. Some do and that was the point Terry was making Overkill. The fact that you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around doesn't make this a crazy prospect. Think about it.
No, you think about it. Additives settling out due to temperature changes (and possibly due to chemical reactions) is completely unrelated to centrifugal separation.
And "not all units available do this." Nice deflection, keep adding to this goofy story. I suppose your NDA discussion covered that too?
I'm done with you in all threads. I don't need to prove anything to you.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...
What I'm saying is I don't think the ability of an oil filter to trap water is that important because any condensation from combustion will be taken care of by getting the oil hot and the crankcase ventilation system. How many oil filters have you seen cut open have shown water to be trapped in them? I've seen zero cut open oil filters with trapped water inside because even if it did happen the condensation is usually burned off anyway for the reasons I've stated.
In regards to this... My oil regularly gets to 212-230F and it still has a moisture problem of 500-900ppm of water in the used oil analysis samples so I think that it could be because I'm not using traditional media in my oil filters and using synthetic media.
Yes, I see your used oil analysis here - LINK
Do you have other used oil analysis on this same vehicle from the same place with any different filters used? Being in the climate you're in up there, it could be a normal reading if you take an oil sample in the winter time with the cold temperatures. Maybe the PCV valve is getting tired - could be other factors involved. There are plenty of used oil analysis posted on BITOG that show low water levels when using full synthetic oil filters, so it's not an automatic direct correlation.
Unfortunately I can't find the first used oil analysis I did at 10,000km to compare. So I only have this one from last October and this one I just did.
I was thinking of doing a used oil analysis on my mom's Journey which is the same engine and see if she has a water problem and then use this to try and figure out what is going on with mine based on that.
It's too [censored] cold to far around with it at the moment. The good news is that the engine isn't showing any wear because of it but it's definitely something to watch.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...
What I'm saying is I don't think the ability of an oil filter to trap water is that important because any condensation from combustion will be taken care of by getting the oil hot and the crankcase ventilation system. How many oil filters have you seen cut open have shown water to be trapped in them? I've seen zero cut open oil filters with trapped water inside because even if it did happen the condensation is usually burned off anyway for the reasons I've stated.
In regards to this... My oil regularly gets to 212-230F and it still has a moisture problem of 500-900ppm of water in the used oil analysis samples so I think that it could be because I'm not using traditional media in my oil filters and using synthetic media.
Yes, I see your used oil analysis here - LINK
Do you have other used oil analysis on this same vehicle from the same place with any different filters used? Being in the climate you're in up there, it could be a normal reading if you take an oil sample in the winter time with the cold temperatures. Maybe the PCV valve is getting tired - could be other factors involved. There are plenty of used oil analysis posted on BITOG that show low water levels when using full synthetic oil filters, so it's not an automatic direct correlation.
Unfortunately I can't find the first used oil analysis I did at 10,000km to compare. So I only have this one from last October and this one I just did.
I was thinking of doing a used oil analysis on my mom's Journey which is the same engine and see if she has a water problem and then use this to try and figure out what is going on with mine based on that.
It's too [censored] cold to far around with it at the moment. The good news is that the engine isn't showing any wear because of it but it's definitely something to watch.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Not all units available do this. Some do and that was the point Terry was making Overkill. The fact that you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around doesn't make this a crazy prospect. Think about it.
No, you think about it. Additives settling out due to temperature changes (and possibly due to chemical reactions) is completely unrelated to centrifugal separation.
And "not all units available do this." Nice deflection, keep adding to this goofy story. I suppose your NDA discussion covered that too?
I dunno if its a fact that "you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around". Never seen it documented, which makes it anecdotal in my book. If I believed eveything I heard on bitog I might hope to be able to play the banjo better.
IF it IS a fact, it wouldn't be "completely unrelated to centrifugal separation." It'd be confirmation that additives come out of solution and therefore in principle are seperable by centrifugation.
(You CAN separate molecules in actual solution by centrifugation, and I have done so as a grad student many many moons ago (DNA, caesium chloride gradient, ultracentrifuge, long long spin) but you can't do it on a truck with a 500 dollar spinner.)
IF this were the case, it'd likely be variable, depending on the behaviour of the oil and the performance of the centrifuge.
It seems quite unlikely that any removal of additives would be total, and therefore quite likely that it would'nt have any disastrous or even detectable consequences.
IMO y'all need to align the certainty of your opinions with the large uncertainties involved in your topic.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Not all units available do this. Some do and that was the point Terry was making Overkill. The fact that you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around doesn't make this a crazy prospect. Think about it.
No, you think about it. Additives settling out due to temperature changes (and possibly due to chemical reactions) is completely unrelated to centrifugal separation.
And "not all units available do this." Nice deflection, keep adding to this goofy story. I suppose your NDA discussion covered that too?
I dunno if its a fact that "you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around". Never seen it documented, which makes it anecdotal in my book. If I believed eveything I heard on bitog I might hope to be able to play the banjo better.
IF it IS a fact, it wouldn't be "completely unrelated to centrifugal separation." It'd be confirmation that additives come out of solution and therefore in principle are seperable by centrifugation.
(You CAN separate molecules in actual solution by centrifugation, and I have done so as a grad student many many moons ago (DNA, caesium chloride gradient, ultracentrifuge, long long spin) but you can't do it on a truck with a 500 dollar spinner.)
IF this were the case, it'd likely be variable, depending on the behaviour of the oil and the performance of the centrifuge.
It seems quite unlikely that any removal of additives would be total, and therefore quite likely that it would'nt have any disastrous or even detectable consequences.
IMO y'all need to align the certainty of your opinions with the large uncertainties involved in your topic.
I don't know if it is a fact either, I've never seen the fallout but people say they have.
But no, that is not the same. If indeed it happens due to temperature changes or other long-term effects then those large and visible clumps are massive enough to settle out under 1g. Large protein molecules can be separated sure, and I've done the calculation myself too in a biochemistry class to show what rotational speed was required for the centrifuge to do so. But the additive molecules are nothing like large heme or proteins (and neither are the g-forces compared to a laboratory centrifuge).
All I was asking was to see the details of the statements that it can be done. The uncertainty in this topic is the unsubstantiated claim that it can happen.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
I dunno if its a fact that "you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around". Never seen it documented, which makes it anecdotal in my book. If I believed eveything I heard on bitog I might hope to be able to play the banjo better.
IF it IS a fact, it wouldn't be "completely unrelated to centrifugal separation." It'd be confirmation that additives come out of solution and therefore in principle are seperable by centrifugation.
(You CAN separate molecules in actual solution by centrifugation, and I have done so as a grad student many many moons ago (DNA, caesium chloride gradient, ultracentrifuge, long long spin) but you can't do it on a truck with a 500 dollar spinner.)
IF this were the case, it'd likely be variable, depending on the behaviour of the oil and the performance of the centrifuge.
It seems quite unlikely that any removal of additives would be total, and therefore quite likely that it would'nt have any disastrous or even detectable consequences.
IMO y'all need to align the certainty of your opinions with the large uncertainties involved in your topic.
But no, that is not the same. If indeed it happens due to temperature changes or other long-term effects then those large and visible clumps are massive enough to settle out under 1g. Large protein molecules can be separated sure, and I've done the calculation myself too in a biochemistry class to show what rotational speed was required for the centrifuge to do so. But the additive molecules are nothing like large heme or proteins (and neither are the g-forces compared to a laboratory centrifuge).
All I was asking was to see the details of the statements that it can be done. The uncertainty in this topic is the unsubstantiated claim that it can happen.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
I dunno if its a fact that "you have additive fall-out in oil jugs sitting around". Never seen it documented, which makes it anecdotal in my book. If I believed eveything I heard on bitog I might hope to be able to play the banjo better.
IF it IS a fact, it wouldn't be "completely unrelated to centrifugal separation." It'd be confirmation that additives come out of solution and therefore in principle are seperable by centrifugation.
(You CAN separate molecules in actual solution by centrifugation, and I have done so as a grad student many many moons ago (DNA, caesium chloride gradient, ultracentrifuge, long long spin) but you can't do it on a truck with a 500 dollar spinner.)
IF this were the case, it'd likely be variable, depending on the behaviour of the oil and the performance of the centrifuge.
It seems quite unlikely that any removal of additives would be total, and therefore quite likely that it would'nt have any disastrous or even detectable consequences.
IMO y'all need to align the certainty of your opinions with the large uncertainties involved in your topic.
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