Cash for Clunkers...

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Originally Posted By: ksJoe
When an employee walking around with a clipboard saw it, his mouth dropped open and he said "uhhhhh, that thing has to run"


So they're not happy taking cars that have actually lived out their usable life span, they must be ones that run so they can kill them prematurely?

I'm getting angrier and angrier by the minute.
 
I think it was more due to the fact that the law requires it be operable. They said it has to be able to drive around the block. They were very happy to take any piece of junk that would meet the requirements for them to get their $4500.
 
A good car like the Volvo should be traded for someone that owns a an old gas hog that gets 15 MPG.......

In this way the people without the means can move into a better newer car with better MPG. Then the true gas hog could be crushed. Though that would still be sad.......
 
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32

So they're not happy taking cars that have actually lived out their usable life span, they must be ones that run so they can kill them prematurely?

I'm getting angrier and angrier by the minute.


Since the government claims this program is to help the environment, (even though it isn't) they want to take vehicles that are actually running, consuming gas, and polluting the air off the road. If they only destroy cars that don't even run and are NOT burning gas or polluting, then what's the point?
I don't agree with the program either and I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just trying to explain some of this government "logic."
 
I have to say, seeing that Volvo (try) to destroy itself hurt a little. I think what's more surprising is that it wasn't worth more than $4500 on its own. Maybe there was something else wrong with it that made it worthless. But I'd wager that it was more the exception than the rule. The Caprice wagon, I'd guess, was more like the norm. It only managed to turn a couple hundred times before it seized??

1- I'm in favor of the program. Getting the junk off the roads is important. Temporarily stimulating auto purchases is important. (I don't know about you, but when I see the THOUSANDS of cars sitting there gathering dust at the manufacturer holding lots, I get the willies.) I would have preferred to see it be a little more "targeted" though. The bigger the differential between the MPG of the junker and the MPG of a new car, the bigger the credit. The lower the income, the bigger the credit.

2- Destroying the engine in this way does little to remove parts from the aftermarket/junkyard market. The only things that get ruined are the engine itself. Everything else is A-ok to pull and stock for repairs.

3- I'm not sure why "socialism" is suddenly the scare word. This country has had a lot of socialist programs for a long time. Heck, charity is voluntary socialism. We have socialized medicine for the old, the young, the poor and the vets. Why is socialism OK for the vets, but not other people? (I'm not trying to say it is bad to take care of our vets!) Other examples of socialism: building roads, common defense, tax credits/deductions for preferred spending, unemployment insurance. Socialism isn't some new thing, and it isn't necessarily bad. POORLY IMPLEMENTED socialism is. Every time we take a tax deduction for having more dependents or for having a mortgage payment, we are the beneficiaries of socialism. Someone else has to pay higher taxes to subsidize your spending. So I don't think "socialism" is what people are really worried about. We are worried about, I think, poorly implemented socialism. And some are simply using it to try to gain political advantage. Those people are irrelevant- we all know they take their piece of the socialism pie when it comes around. And they are the same ones that say its perfectly OK to use the power of the government to control people's behavior when its something they believe in. They aren't against socialism or government- they are simply against a different political party using the power of government for anything they don't like.

3b- What scares me about socialized medicine is not the moral hazard of "giving" the "undeserving" something they haven't paid for. What worries me is letting the idiots in Congress have anything to do with it. I believe the country will be better off with a good socialized medicine program that blends with the free market in medicine. But if it's anything like the ridiculously complicated prescription drug socialism that Bush pushed through a few years ago, I fear for our lives.

4- Yeah, the government currently owns a large chunk of the auto industry. What's different is that the didn't ask for it, nor did they take it for no reason. They used our tax dollars to engage in a lesser of two evils deal. Let 'em fail and wait for the market to pick up the pieces might seem like a good solution, and from a purely free-market perspective, it is the better solution. But the external costs of letting that happen were too great- how many ancillary industries would fail while we wait for the free market to clean up the mess? How many hundreds of thousands of jobs get lost in the process? This was, I would imagine, far cheaper than paying unemployment for all those folks who work at Delphi and ITW and the like. The other thing is that the government intends to sell off its interest in the companies. Presumably at a profit. Like the Chrysler loans in the 80's. Not sure why it's OMG AWFULZ because Obama's doing it, and perfectly fine when Reagan did it.
 
That 318 Dodge, transported to Oz would have funded the destruction of probably 10 real "clunkers"...and served a worthwhile purpose actually carting stuff.

Was at some field days a few weeks back, and US "grey" imports are big with Oz farmers. They all want Rams, F250s, and GMCs.
 
This is a bad drug, a temporary high and a crash is soon coming. What happens when (one way or another!) the money runs out? All the temporary good feelings and fantastic sales figures will be replaced with the worst months in history. Demand will be satisfied, meanwhile there will be no "organic growth", the auto companies still won't be set to operate on their own, and the gov'ment will need to come in and bail out some more....
 
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: ksJoe
When an employee walking around with a clipboard saw it, his mouth dropped open and he said "uhhhhh, that thing has to run"


So they're not happy taking cars that have actually lived out their usable life span, they must be ones that run so they can kill them prematurely?
I'm getting angrier and angrier by the minute.


Why does it have to run? Are they really going to be inspecting these after the fact? Even if they do, how can they ever prove if it was able to run or not after Liquid Glass was introduced?
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: ksJoe
When an employee walking around with a clipboard saw it, his mouth dropped open and he said "uhhhhh, that thing has to run"


So they're not happy taking cars that have actually lived out their usable life span, they must be ones that run so they can kill them prematurely?
I'm getting angrier and angrier by the minute.


Why does it have to run? Are they really going to be inspecting these after the fact? Even if they do, how can they ever prove if it was able to run or not after Liquid Glass was introduced?


Officially, the goal is to get gas guzzlers off the street. If it isn't operable, it isn't guzzling gas. I suspect the requirement is it keep people from bolting up a bad engine, transmission & frame, and turning it in for $4500.

I don't know if this comes from the legislation, or the bureaucratic interpretation of it, but they said it has to be able to drive around the block. They cannot sell/salvage parts of the drive train. A salt solution is poured into the running engine to prevent breaking the rules.
 
from what I've seen . More are trading guzzler for guzzler . More about sales to bolster the AMERICAN car manufacturers . Economics . Not about environment or better fuel economy .
wink.gif
 
To be eligible for the Cash For Clunkers credit voucher you must trade in your car or truck that has been in use and registered for at least one year. You must get 18 MPG or fewer with that vehicle and buy a new car or truck $45,000 or less and get 4 MPG or more better than your old clunker. Trucks and SUV's must also get 18 MPG or less. The new truck only needs to get 2 MPG better but your cash voucher is just $3500 vs. $4500 with cars. The exception is if the new truck or SUV gets 5 MPG better you get the full $4500 voucher. You can combine your Cash For Clunker voucher with any other offer or sale the car dealer may be having at the time.
 
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: ksJoe
When an employee walking around with a clipboard saw it, his mouth dropped open and he said "uhhhhh, that thing has to run"


So they're not happy taking cars that have actually lived out their usable life span, they must be ones that run so they can kill them prematurely?
I'm getting angrier and angrier by the minute.


Why does it have to run? Are they really going to be inspecting these after the fact? Even if they do, how can they ever prove if it was able to run or not after Liquid Glass was introduced?


Why does it have to run? Because the "selling point" of this program to the American people is the environment. The almighty environment. Any amount of chaos is worth it, for the environment. Now, I don't think that's the real reason, but it's the reason given. OK, I'll stop now, or I might get the thread locked.
 
Originally Posted By: crw
Why does it have to run? Because the "selling point" of this program to the American people is the environment. The almighty environment. Any amount of chaos is worth it, for the environment. Now, I don't think that's the real reason, but it's the reason given. OK, I'll stop now, or I might get the thread locked.


Any one short-sighted enough to think that this does anything to help the environment is a complete fool. If you want to help the environment, put a flat tax on gas, and make it cost at least $5/gallon. Suddenly, people will start driving less, buy more efficient cars, or take public transportation. The impact would be much more far reaching than any foolish scrappage program, and we'd be working to reduce the deficit, not increase it.

Oh right, Americans don't want to pay for anything, and always just want hand outs and to feel good about themselves.

What does it take to move to Europe, anyway?
 
I cannot believe this backwards system!

So, 50 billion dollars of tax-payer money was given to GM to "prop them up".

Then 1 billion dollars of tax-payer money was given for this program so that dealers could blow-up running vehicles, to artificially boost sales figures until the program runs out of money........

To give those who cannot afford it, an incentive to get themselves more in debt to a system that already received 700 billion tax-payer dollars because it was unsustainable......

To buy a new vehicle that may come from one of the manufacturers that was already propped up by tax-payer provided money!

Yeah, this is going to work..........
 
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: crw
Why does it have to run? Because the "selling point" of this program to the American people is the environment. The almighty environment. Any amount of chaos is worth it, for the environment. Now, I don't think that's the real reason, but it's the reason given. OK, I'll stop now, or I might get the thread locked.


Any one short-sighted enough to think that this does anything to help the environment is a complete fool. If you want to help the environment, put a flat tax on gas, and make it cost at least $5/gallon. Suddenly, people will start driving less, buy more efficient cars, or take public transportation. The impact would be much more far reaching than any foolish scrappage program, and we'd be working to reduce the deficit, not increase it.

Oh right, Americans don't want to pay for anything, and always just want hand outs and to feel good about themselves.

What does it take to move to Europe, anyway?


Your ideas sound a little European. $5.00 For gas?? Here in the heart land we need our cars and trucks and $5.00 gas would would criple our personel finances.

You are right that this clunker program is a sham.
 
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The vehicles being crushed have years or decades left in them. It's a sickening waste!


Not to make this political and get it locked, but I wrote a very long letter to my state Senators urging them to discontinue wasting my tax dollars on destroying serviceable vehicles and rewarding people who make poor decisions. If you're bothered by this program, I'd encourage you to do the same.


I did. Few things bother me enough to do that, but this actually did.
 
What does it take to move to Europe, anyway?


Say goodby!!!!
Will we miss you, probably not!!!!
 
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