Case for bigger Gov.

[buster]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1870268,00.html

Quote:
A big difference between the U.S. and the rest of the rich world is that for the past 30 years or so, Americans consistently rejected "government solutions" to the problems of health, poverty, education and the environment. We've kept our taxes as a share of national income lower than Europe's by focusing on the private sector. But we're getting much less for our money. Markets are great at providing consumer goods and services. We don't want the government running our restaurants, movie houses, bookstores and manufacturers. Markets are not so good, though, at some very important things. A pressing example: our mostly private health system, at $8,000 per American, is twice the cost of Europe's mostly public system, yet with worse outcomes. And nearly 50 million Americans lack health insurance


Not a view I share, but worth looking at.

 

[SZR48207]

No case is valid for increasing the government size. Doing so would be antithetical to this country's foundings. If something must be done, delegate the responsibility to individual states.

But, if the education system is only focusing on math and english and ignoring history, then there's a good chance that the mass public won't realize the problem. People nowadays are more likely to know the current contestants on American Idol more than they'd know the amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights.

 

[scoobie]

time is a right wing rag, and if they're even calling for bigger gov't, that means the right wing realizes the huge mistake they made in hoping for "government to drown in a bathtub", and are realizing that greed is not all it's cracked up to be. look what happened to king midas, he got all that gold, but then he touched his daughter, she turned to solid gold as well. when the people do well, then they can afford to buy stuff from business, and then business does well also. no need to send jobs to slave countries, that only gives short term bonanza. Ronald Reagan's policies are coming home to roost, that is the root cause of the collapse of the entire western banking system, and where it all began.

 

[dave123]

Government is never the solution it can only get in the way.

 

[Drew99GT]

What we need to do is get through this recession and then start digging ourselves out of debt. More debt, even in the short to midterm, will only exacerbate our problems. It's going to be painful with any course taken, but your average person doesn't fix a problem created by enormous debt and spending...........by further spending by debt! The USA is equivalent to an average citizen in the global stage.

 

[buster]

Quote:
Ronald Reagan's policies are coming home to roost, that is the root cause of the collapse of the entire western banking system, and where it all began.


How so?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: scoobie
time is a right wing rag, and if they're even calling for bigger gov't, that means the right wing realizes the huge mistake they made in hoping for "government to drown in a bathtub", and are realizing that greed is not all it's cracked up to be. look what happened to king midas, he got all that gold, but then he touched his daughter, she turned to solid gold as well. when the people do well, then they can afford to buy stuff from business, and then business does well also. no need to send jobs to slave countries, that only gives short term bonanza. Ronald Reagan's policies are coming home to roost, that is the root cause of the collapse of the entire western banking system, and where it all began.


What a crock of unintelligible [censored].

 

[Pablo]

If someone can prove all Europeans pay $4000/year for health care and get better coverage, better doctors, better medical care than in the USA, I'll have a look.

But mostly we get some stats about fat people getting fatter and dieing Steve S. deaths.

Oh and you folks REALLY need to learn about how the US Government bailed our sorry asses out of the great depression.

 

[Steve S]

Would you like to pay for other peoples insurance? Where does the government get the money from ?

 

[Steve S]

Steve S has been very close to death 2 times in his life it would be a good death.

 

[Barkleymut]

Ask all of the Canadians who come down to the US for medical care because:

1. Good Canadian Drs end up in the US so they can actually make money (yes the most important and intelligent folks do deserve more $$)

2. The waiting period for socialized healthcare is ridiculous (guess they've never heard the saying an oz of prevention is worth a pound of cure)

3. Taxes- I pay enough thank you; I have zero desire to pay 55% of my earnings to the govt

4. Cure rates - bottom line the US is THE BEST when it comes to saving lives - thats what its all about right? Why do we have UPS and Fedex if the govt way of mail delivery is the best?

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
4. Cure rates - bottom line the US is THE BEST when it comes to saving lives - thats what its all about right?


I think you left off ..


..of those who can afford and receive US health care..


The devil is always in the details... (4 out of 5 doctors who expressed a preference)

 

[Pablo]

And you really think people in the USA go untreated?

 

[Barkleymut]

If you can afford a 55% tax bracket then you can afford medical coverage through insurance. I know every situation is different and that some that work their entire lives are denied claims, I know that is not right. But I also know that trying to get anything passed through the govt will be 10x worse.

 

[MarkC]

This might be interesting.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/total_health_expenditure_as_pecent_of_gdp_2000_to_2005.html

This too:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

...though of course, the source is communist....

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Ask all of the Canadians who come down to the US for medical care because:

1. Good Canadian Drs end up in the US so they can actually make money (yes the most important and intelligent folks do deserve more $$)

2. The waiting period for socialized healthcare is ridiculous (guess they've never heard the saying an oz of prevention is worth a pound of cure)

3. Taxes- I pay enough thank you; I have zero desire to pay 55% of my earnings to the govt

4. Cure rates - bottom line the US is THE BEST when it comes to saving lives - thats what its all about right? Why do we have UPS and Fedex if the govt way of mail delivery is the best?

Hahahaha ... So far from the truth... You keep paying for your insurance that can be denied and I will keep paying 30% income tax on my rather larger than average income and keep my FREE-Health care. BTW: I can walk in and see my doctor almost any day without an appointment and without waiting more than 20 minutes...

The problem is your media has been bought by your private sector who wants to keep the "For Profit" system, so they feed this B.S. about Canadian Socialize Health Care which is constantly lacking and costing us a fortune, there is some truth that there is room for improvement and the management could be better but what system doesn't have this problem (private/public?)...

Again I laugh because you are so far from the truth... Ask any Canadian on this board!

Also I have lots of friend in the U.S. that I visit and we compare costs all the time, trust me when I tell you we have it better.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: buster
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1870268,00.html

Quote:
A big difference between the U.S. and the rest of the rich world is that for the past 30 years or so, Americans consistently rejected "government solutions" to the problems of health, poverty, education and the environment. We've kept our taxes as a share of national income lower than Europe's by focusing on the private sector. But we're getting much less for our money. Markets are great at providing consumer goods and services. We don't want the government running our restaurants, movie houses, bookstores and manufacturers. Markets are not so good, though, at some very important things. A pressing example: our mostly private health system, at $8,000 per American, is twice the cost of Europe's mostly public system, yet with worse outcomes. And nearly 50 million Americans lack health insurance


Not a view I share, but worth looking at.


You don't share the view that 50 million Americans lack health insurance and nearly as many are under-insured?

 

[Barkleymut]

Stevie - I appreciate your contribution but it varies widely from what I have seen on other boards that I belong to. I just mapped your area thinking that you are living in the sticks and that was the reason but it appears you are in one of the only populated areas of Canada. Please let me know more as I hate the media and love to learn more from real people.

1. you work
2. you really only pay 30% taxes?
3. you wait for 1/2 the time that I do for a Dr.
4. is your Dr. over the age of 11?

Sorry for AS-Suming anything here, I love to learn.BTW what the heck is a kilometer? lol.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Ask all of the Canadians who come down to the US for medical care because:

1. Good Canadian Drs end up in the US so they can actually make money (yes the most important and intelligent folks do deserve more $$)

2. The waiting period for socialized healthcare is ridiculous (guess they've never heard the saying an oz of prevention is worth a pound of cure)

3. Taxes- I pay enough thank you; I have zero desire to pay 55% of my earnings to the govt

4. Cure rates - bottom line the US is THE BEST when it comes to saving lives - thats what its all about right? Why do we have UPS and Fedex if the govt way of mail delivery is the best?

Hahahaha ... So far from the truth... You keep paying for your insurance that can be denied and I will keep paying 30% income tax on my rather larger than average income and keep my FREE-Health care. BTW: I can walk in and see my doctor almost any day without an appointment and without waiting more than 20 minutes...

The problem is your media has been bought by your private sector who wants to keep the "For Profit" system, so they feed this B.S. about Canadian Socialize Health Care which is constantly lacking and costing us a fortune... Again I laugh because you are so far from the truth... Ask any Canadian on this board!

Also I have lots of friend in the U.S. that I visit and we compare costs all the time, trust me when I tell you we have it better.

The anti-universal health care interest groups in this country have created a myth that the Canadians have bad health care system. That has very little to do with reality but they keep repeating it. The only time the Canadians buy health insurance is when they travel to the US. Otherwise, I have not seen a Canadian yet who prefers the system in this country to theirs.

 

[oilyriser]

Your name must be Buffett if you are paying only 30% tax in Canada. I have a popular doctor, and have to wait 2 months for an appointment.