carburetor issue

[Jakegday]

hello all, i recently bought a new (remanufactured) carb on ebay for my fairmont. i replaced it cuz the fast idle cam, along with the stud that holds it on, had fallen off the old one and disappeared.

with this new carburetor, in the morning time, after the engine has sat for 12+ hours in the freezing cold, it doesnt fire up nearly as quick as it used to. before it would crank for maybe 2-3 seconds then fire up. with this new carburetor you have to crank it for literally 10-15 seconds before it turns over. ive got the air/fuel adjusted as good as i can get it, from listening and feeling how it drives, i dont have any tools for that. The fast idle and normal idle are adjusted to my liking, once the engine is running.

before i would just get in the car, pump the gas once, then hold it at half throttle and start it, i do that now and this happens

any input would be most appreciated....

 

[demarpaint]

Did you adjust the choke? The choke is what the engine relies on for cold starts. If it isn't adjusted correctly it can give you grief! What year is the Fairmont?

 

[Jakegday]

yes, sorry for not mentioning that, the electric choke has been adjusted. ive watched it while a second person started it and the choke functions like its supposed to. its an 81

 

[demarpaint]

Try closing it a tiny bit more. If that doesn't work try this:

When the engine is cold, hold a 1/8" drill bit in the center of the choke and work the gas pedal linkage as if you were flooring it, engine is OFF! [Just don't drop the bit into the engine]. The choke should close so that there is very slight tension on the 1/8" drill bit. This adjustment should get you in the ballpark, if closing it a tiny bit more didn't work.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: Jakegday
hello all, i recently bought a new (remanufactured) carb on ebay for my fairmont. i replaced it cuz the fast idle cam, along with the stud that holds it on, had fallen off the old one and disappeared.

with this new carburetor, in the morning time, after the engine has sat for 12+ hours in the freezing cold, it doesnt fire up nearly as quick as it used to. before it would crank for maybe 2-3 seconds then fire up. with this new carburetor you have to crank it for literally 10-15 seconds before it turns over. ive got the air/fuel adjusted as good as i can get it, from listening and feeling how it drives, i dont have any tools for that. The fast idle and normal idle are adjusted to my liking, once the engine is running.

before i would just get in the car, pump the gas once, then hold it at half throttle and start it, i do that now and this happens

any input would be most appreciated....


Why are you holding it at half throttle? You should pump the gas once and then take your foot of the gas. This makes the choke close and sets the fast idle.
If everything is adjusted properly the engine should start right up and go to a fast idle.

 

[mechjames]

Have you check the float level? Its possible it might be out of adjustment.

 

[severach]

The proper way to start is to press the accelerator to the floor once and let off to start. Having to hold the pedal half way down means something is not right.

Verify that the choke works properly. I learned this procedure on a Chrysler but it should be the same for a Ford.

After sitting all night cold, pop the hood, pop the air cleaner, and verify that the choke is completely open from last night's drive. Open the throttle and the choke should snap completely shut. Floor the throttle and you should see a bit of fuel squirted in below the choke.

Start the engine. The vacuum pull off should open the choke just a crack. The width of that crack determines how well or poorly it runs cold. Move the choke by hand open and closed to find the extents where it runs well. Adjust the choke pull off to the center of that range. This usually sets the fast idle so you don't get to choose your fast idle.

Over the next 5 minutes the choke should open but it won't move if the throttle is closed. Bump the throttle periodically to allow the choke to move.

If changing the carb changed how it starts then one of these things is different. If one part is incorrectly adjusted then someone may have adjusted a different part to compensate. Sometimes the wrong part is adjusted because the right part is sealed for emissions or the right part is broken. Each wrong adjustment makes the car harder to start and run worse when cold.

 

[demarpaint]

IIRC they used a Carter 1 bbl carb on the 200 and 250 I6, they were picky. You set the choke, by stepping on the gas one time, foot off and turn the key, the car should start up on the first try and be idling on the fast idle cam. In extreme cold you can step on the gas pedal twice before starting it, but remember foot off the gas when you start it. If you have to apply the gas while starting it, or to keep it running something is wrong. You could also have a defective carb.

As severach mentioned each wrong adjustment makes the car harder to start and run worse when cold, or hot sometimes as well.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they used a Carter 1 bbl carb on the 200 and 250 I6, they were picky. You set the choke, by stepping on the gas one time, foot off and turn the key, the car should start up on the first try and be idling on the fast idle cam. In extreme cold you can step on the gas pedal twice before starting it, but remember foot off the gas when you start it. If you have to apply the gas while starting it, or to keep it running something is wrong. You could also have a defective carb.

As severach mentioned each wrong adjustment makes the car harder to start and run worse when cold, or hot sometimes as well.

Yeap, I remember that. We had a 78 Fairmont with the 200 engine. That thing ran forever! It got passed around the family a lot. My wife bought it with about 70,000 miles on it and when we finally sold it I think it had over 250,000 miles. I think we replaced the water pump once, other than that everything was original as far as we know.
Not a lot of power, but a decent reliable transportation car.

 

[fsskier]

The above posters are correct, you should pump it and take your foot off the gas. If the fast idle is properly set it will start easily without your assistance.

Opening the throttle half way - there is a rod going up to the choke - is likely pulling the choke partway open and prevents it from choking the engine enough.

Then you can try experimenting with a second or third pump, each time squirts in another thimblefull of gas- and richens the intial start a little more. Too many and you will of course flood it.

The cure for a rich condition (flooded) is to push the throttle to the floor and hold it there while cranking. The choke pull-off rod pulls the choke plate open and allows the intake charge to lean back out.

I would not make any adjustments until you try starting it with the proper procedure.

Perhaps your old carburetor was far out of adjustment, causing your throttle opening to have been needed!

 

[Rob_Roy]

Any chance the fuel is leaking out of the bowl overnight? Q-Jets were famous for this, two plugs on the bottom would leak fuel and cause delayed starting.

 

[eljefino]

My Dad had a 1980 fairmont with the 200-6. IIRC starting instructions are on the sunvisor; they are definitely in the owners manual. Am pretty sure holding the pedal down partway is part of the cold start procedure. The WOT choke pull off is... WOT.

That said there's a lot of good advice in this thread. Dad went with a manual choke (then undid it and didn't tell anyone-- as a cruel joke?) but otherwise the carb was reliable for 13 years. I like Rob's fuel disapparing theory.

 

[demarpaint]

I had more than my fair share of Ford I-6 engines from the little 200 to the 300 I-6 with carbs dating back to 1965. The models from the 80's had a lot of emission restrictions just before EFI, and were a PITA. The insturctions wanted you to pump the gas once to the floor, twice if it was very cold. Then take your foot off the gas and start it, flooded engines were started with the gas to the floor. Warm engines that sat for a little while started best while pushing lightly on the gas, while turning the key to start the car.

It was already mentioned but worth repeating. Before messing any more with the carb, if proper cold start procedure is not working the carb is either out of adjustment, defective, in need of a rebuild, choke pull off, or some other part. They even had problems with NIB Carter carburators back in the 80's.

 

[fsskier]

Correct Demarpaint, one or two pumps, take your foot off.
Yes we all owned one of these (78-80 Fairmonts) I inherited mine. Like a cockroach, nobody liked em, but you could not kill them!!

Emission controls: the vacuum advance was routed through a temp switch, and a tcs (transmission control switch). In a desperate attempt to clean up the exhaust, no vacuum advance was allowed until you were in high gear with a warm engine. You could greatly increase the short trip gas mileage on this thing by bypassing both.... heck it left you with a lot of extra hose, also.

Never sure why they put this engine in the car. The OHC 4Cyl model had 88 HP with a 34 mpg hwy epa number. The old pushrod 6 cyl had 85 horsepower and a 22 mpg hwy epa number. Why?

I owned both, the 4 cyl did everything better, better balance and more room under the hood.....

Now this is sort of apples and oranges, but my 4 cyl had a 4spd manual and could tow our 2,000 lb boat forever....
the 6 cyl overheated and the automatic transmission would boil the fluid out when towing, even with a 5,0000 lb rated cooler on it

 

[demarpaint]

Those were the days! LOL. I had a 66 Falcon with the 200 I-6, it was till this day one of the most reliable cars I ever owned. It started and ran no matter what, it never let me down. My parents had an 83 Fairmont with the same engine, and honestly it felt like it had half the power. I had to knock a plug off the carb that allowed for an air fuel mix adjustment to get it to run well. That was after several trips back to the dealer for poor idle and lack of power complaints. They were aware of it but couldn't remove that plug. The EPA really had the car makers hands tied behind their backs. They still do but the advances that engines made from the 80's until today is unreal!

Interesting comments about the 4 cyl engine. I never owned one.

 

[fsskier]

Yeah, the 200 ci 6 was a decent performer in the 60's and early 70's, then emission controls seemed to totally hobble that motor.
25 mpg or more in Falcons, Mavericks, etc seemed easy, the later years 20 mpg was out of reach.

Cockroach ability: Ours went completely under water in a flood in 1993 - only the roof stuck out. This was very clean "creek water" crystal clear, no mud in it. Being already a 14 year old heap I drained and spun the motor, refilled and drove off. Pulled a boat to the lake, the transmission boiled most of the water out on the way there - the process blew some fluid out also, had to add a couple of qts.

The interior dried out fine - the headliner was the only part of the car that did not go under, remarkably it mildewed, while the rest of the interior did not!

3 months later a front wheel bearing began to growl, I pulled off the bearing -grease cap and water ran out. It can go in in a few minutes, then stay there for months!

No other problems ever surfaced. The gas tank always seemed to have positive pressure in it when you took the cap off - but we still got a little water in the gas that showed up in about a week, always thought perhaps it was drawn in through the evaporative canister. A couple cans of heet cured that easily.

 

[addyguy]

I went to college with a guy that had a 1983 Mercury Cougar 4-door sedan with a 200 I6. It had some minor 'issues', but was solid, and mostly rust-free. He was willing to sell it to me, very, very cheap to get rid of it. I still sometime regret to this day that I didn't take the opportunity to grab that car - it would have been a great one to have.

 

[eljefino]

I wonder if dad's 4-on-the-floor fairmont had that spark delay stuff. Seemed to always be pinging, the opposite issue.

Even as a wagon it got 24-25 MPG. Motor was pretty wheezy above a certain low RPM like 3500.

Smog pump belt was long gone. Must have been the last days for non-computerized lean burn carbs.

 

[fsskier]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I wonder if dad's 4-on-the-floor fairmont had that spark delay stuff. Seemed to always be pinging, the opposite issue.

Even as a wagon it got 24-25 MPG. Motor was pretty wheezy above a certain low RPM like 3500.

Smog pump belt was long gone. Must have been the last days for non-computerized lean burn carbs.


No, the 4 cyl did not get the vacuum cob-jobs that the 6 did. Perhaps, as a somewhat more modern OHC motor it could more easily make emissions, it also got a 2bbl carb, unlike the single barrel on the 6 cyl. Our 78 had the "soft cam" issue that was under a hidden warranty... mine did not fail until about 100 k miles. I replaced it with a Crane "truck and motorhome" cam, wow that totally transformed the engine. The torque increase was stunning with decent power till about 5,000 rpm. Being a wagon, it also became a full time tow vehicle, always pulling 2,000 lbs, often pulling 3300 on long road trips for a commercial operation. The stock cam surely had emissions compromises in it... its failure was the best thing that ever happened to that car.

 

[eljefino]

fsskier... it was a special order 200-6 with stick shift. Probably should have mentioned that. My dad was so proud he didn't get "the pinto motor".

It was a pretty lame combo though, the gear spacing was awful, had to wind up in 2nd then lug in 3rd. Mom declared that from then on out we would actually test drive the powertrain we were winding up with. Luckily for me as a new driver on a learner's permit the 6 had low end torque and was easy to start from a standstill.

Still a decent car in hindsight. Except the e-brake system was designed for an automatic car, ie never used. Was always freezing up, every winter.