2009 honda civic GX won't start, cranks, sometimes fires a bit

[dan7055]

Hey all, about a year or so ago I had a crankshaft position sensor go out so I had it replaced, but they did it with a non-OEM part. a couple months later it wouldn't start again all of the sudden. I assumed it was because they used a cheap sensor instead of OEM and it went bad again, so I provided the OEM Honda part and had them replace it but before they could the car magically started working and starting again. Nonetheless, I had them change it out to the OEM part anyway

Fast forward to now, and it won't start again. I took it to a different mechanic this time and told them my story. They want to start with changing the spark plugs and charge me $375 to do it with the potential of it costing more if the threads get damaged. But the thing is, the car was running fine the day before and then I went to start it in the morning and all the sudden it just wouldn't start. Is it really possible all 4 plugs just go bad at once like that? I mean it fires a little bit when I crank but not much, battery is strong. The mechanic said that yea they can all go bad at once like that especially if it sat over-night and it was cold and the cold temperatures changed the gap of the plugs. Also, $375+ to change plugs on a 2009 civic?

 

[Rand]

spark plugs should be 5min on that? RUN.

 

[Trav]

When you crank the engine does your rpm gauge move a little? Time for a new mechanic, that guy is a crook of the worst kind, its a 15-20 min job and it would be rare any thread damage.
Edit: DENSO 4504 Platinum TT are $3 ea from Rock. $12 or even retain at $7ea and less than 30 min work for $375 is criminal, he couldn't rip you off more if he hit you over the head and took your wallet.

 

[Analog-1]

No all 4 plugs do not go bad at once. Sounds like a possible fuel issue check the pump.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Could be the fuel pump or starter

Since the GX is natural gas/CNG, are there any problems with the CNG? Do you use public CNG gas stations? Or do you mostly refuel at home with the Phil refueler? Or some other machine? While Honda offered the Phil system, they actually don't recommend home refueling due to moisture and contamination. More info here

Spark plugs are under $10 each, and you need 4, and the job is very easy on your Civic.

The fuel pump is only $100 from Rock Auto, which is a good price especially if the GX uses a unique fuel pump not shared with the gasoline engines.

Did Honda still have relay problems in 2009? I know that Hondas in the late 90s had a problem with a relay cracking and would cause random no-starts

 

[D60]

The mechanic said that yea they can all go bad at once like that especially if it sat over-night and it was cold and the cold temperatures changed the gap of the plugs. Also, $375+ to change plugs on a 2009 civic?

Burrito??

I've got some ocean front property in CO that I'd love to sell to your mechanic. Seriously, don't go back there.

 

[Gyro Gearloose]

Give it a whiff of ether and see if it will start. That will help narrow it down to fuel or spark.

 

[fantastic]

Give it a whiff of ether and see if it will start. That will help narrow it down to fuel or spark.

This, Starter fluid into the intake while one is cranking to figure out fuel or electrical issue.

 

[dan7055]

Okay they pulled the spark plugs but apparently they ended up stripping. They said they are the original plugs from 2009 and thats why they rusted in and stripped. So maybe it was the plugs all along and all 4 of them finally gave way at the same time? And because they were original they rusted into the head and that's why they got stripped upon removal? Does that seem right?

 

[Nukeman7]

Okay they pulled the spark plugs but apparently they ended up stripping. They said they are the original plugs from 2009 and thats why they rusted in and stripped. So maybe it was the plugs all along and all 4 of them finally gave way at the same time? And because they were original they rusted into the head and that's why they got stripped upon removal? Does that seem right?

^^^^ LOL...now you will get a bargain if they will pull the head and repair the spark plug threads with Heli-Coils for $375!!!

 

[dan7055]

^^^^ LOL...now you will get a bargain if they will pull the head and repair the spark plug threads with Heli-Coils for $375!!!

Unfortunately no, lol. They said $375 for changing the spark plugs was only if they come out clean and if not they'll charge me more

 

[dan7055]

Maybe next they'll want $375 for an oil-change but that's only if the drain plug comes out easily and then they'll call me back saying it stripped coming out and now its $3,000 LOL Oh, and by the way, the car still doesn't start

But yea that does seem kinda crazy, $375 to change plugs on a civic, but only if they don't strip coming out

 

[Trav]

Okay they pulled the spark plugs but apparently they ended up stripping. They said they are the original plugs from 2009 and thats why they rusted in and stripped. So maybe it was the plugs all along and all 4 of them finally gave way at the same time? And because they were original they rusted into the head and that's why they got stripped upon removal? Does that seem right?

View attachment 255040

Not good, that is some ham fisted hack, I wouldn't be surprised if they used an impact on it. This is a common problem with some Subaru engine that had no never seize applied, the trick is to work slow and use some finesse working them back and forth and not put your back into it. Once it is moving off the gasket seat penetrating oil while working it helps. In 54 year I have done hundreds of super tight plugs and never had that happen.
IMO tow it to a professional to repair these threads and extract the shells. If these jokers bugger this job you are worse than screwed. Send NGK a picture and ask them about their plug not needing anti seize. LOL

 

[D60]

Yeah, if I had that happen on one plug I'd stop and reevaluate my approach.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.....that's called...something???

 

[bullwinkle]

Okay they pulled the spark plugs but apparently they ended up stripping. They said they are the original plugs from 2009 and thats why they rusted in and stripped. So maybe it was the plugs all along and all 4 of them finally gave way at the same time? And because they were original they rusted into the head and that's why they got stripped upon removal? Does that seem right?

View attachment 255040

Those first 2 didn’t strip-the insulator came out of the plug. If it can be fixed without pulling the head it’ll be a miracle, the bottom parts of the plugs will likely need drilled out & a Helicoil or insert installed.

 

[dan7055]

Yeah, if I had that happen on one plug I'd stop and reevaluate my approach.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.....that's called...something???

Thanks for the info. What could they have done differently to prevent this? I think I'm going to have it towed somewhere else. Is it right they want to charge me $75 for their efforts?

 

[D60]

Thanks for the info. What could they have done differently to prevent this? I think I'm going to have it towed somewhere else. Is it right they want to charge me $75 for their efforts?

What @Trav said. Try to gently work it and soak it in penetrant. Basically, anything other than seeing one destroyed and continuing to do the same thing

 

[someonesomewhere]

Thanks for the info. What could they have done differently to prevent this? I think I'm going to have it towed somewhere else. Is it right they want to charge me $75 for their efforts?

Imo, I wouldn't pay since they very much objectively made the issue worse, and in a very expensive-to-fix manner. That said, they're probably the type that'll slap a mechanic's lien on it if you don't pay, so...may be better off just taking the loss and paying their bullflop fee.

 

[Exhaustgases]

And for everyone that thinks a simple spark plug change can be simple. Goes to show ya how it can almost become a major overhaul.
How many miles are on this car?
Any so called simple job can turn into a mess like this.

 

[Trav]

Thanks for the info. What could they have done differently to prevent this? I think I'm going to have it towed somewhere else. Is it right they want to charge me $75 for their efforts?

I am sorry you had to go through this kind of sh.. show with these unscrupulous hacks, they give every decent mechanic a bad name and taint the whole profession.
All 4 plugs did not fail at the same time, you said this engine ran fine the day before so that problem still exist. I can only tell you what I would do if they were tight when trying to remove them.
Check the tank is not empty, check the tach for movement when cranking, if it moves chances are the crank sensor is okay, if not scope the sensor. spray starting fluid down its throat, if it fires it has a fuel delivery issue, if so check fuses and fuel pump relay, check fuel pressure, cam sensor and fuel injector function, etc. If it does not fire it has an ignition or timing issue.

The bottom line is to get the engine running, get it up to operating temp, run some top engine through it.
Sometimes running the top engine cleaner will clean carbon and junk of the bottom of the plug threads that may be causing them to stick. While at operating temp work the plugs carefully back and forth a little at a time using penetrating oil. This can take patience and time but not as much time as pulling the head and visiting a machine shop.