Car oil used as two cycle oil

Messages
10
Location
MN
Yes... cabin fever and boredom.... So I went on Craigslist and bought an old Toro 20" two cycle project snowblower for $10 to putts with. Yesterday I began stripping it down taking off the top and bottom shrouds etc.... And did a basic check of the engine..... the seller said he shot some gas into the spark plug hole and it fired... so there is some hope.... I checked and recorded the two needle settings on the carb... and then wrote down the serial number and there is NO model number listed anywhere... It looks like a pre-200 model.... I kept working on it.... and then I was going to mix some gas/two cycle oil.... research said 32:1.... but I thought I would look on the shroud where the gas tank came through... and it has embossed next to it the mixture instructions.... AND I have NEVER seen this before!!!!

It said to mix a certain amount of gas, with automotive 30W oil........ ????????? There was no mention of two cycle oil.... Care to comment???? Anyone?

Also... I did research using the S/N 31056 604859 and actually found a service manual for it for $8 delivered on Ebay.... but so far, I know I shouldn't have given the seller $10 for it.... He should have given me $10 to take it..... but.... my goal was to spray carb cleaner into every edifice and check out the gas tank and line.... I installed a shut off valve in the gas line..... and I am pretty sure I understand the on/off key deal.... but would like someone to confirm this.... (PS... the S/N 31056 got me to the Ebay manual.... the Ebay manual description told me the Tecumseh engine and then a search of that told me the carburetor number and settings)

The key is ON to run the engine... when you turn the key to "OFF" all it does is move a switch to a ground wire to the block.... which grounds out the engine, correct? In other words, since this key assembly is completely broken, and there is no key for it.... and the seller got it to "fire" it must mean the switch is broken off in the "ON" position..... If so, I will just leave it alone and use the gas line shut off valve to let the carburetor starve to kill the engine.... correct me if I am wrong....

The carb has two needles... one for air and one for fuel.... over the years, the initial settings have always been 1.5 turns out and then follow the protocol turning in until the miss and out until the miss... and move it half way and then adjust the other one.... Right now, the longest needle (which the website says should be adjusted first) is 2.5 turns out and the smaller needle is .5 turns out.... I suspect these are going to be wrong.... but will try to start it with those settings and then if it fails, got back to the initial settings....

OK OK ... glutton for punishment but fun to goof off with only $10 invested.... and something to do....

Thanks for ideas and help and confirmation and suggestions...... it's all good..... If you have any other suggestions, I would welcome them too.... I might wind up pulling the exhaust to check the exhaust ports to make sure they are decent too..... I have had to clean a lot of exhaust ports on two cycle stuff over the years.....

Dennis
 

professor229

Thread starter
Messages
10
Location
MN
Could the shroud be from an older model, before 2 cycle oil time? I know Yamaha recommended 30w oil in the 60s.
Hi.... I guess that is a possibility but the shroud is consistent with the rest of the machine.... pretty sad and just a project... It doesn't matter much though because I will use 32:1 two cycle in it.... It is interesting though... I never have seen regular motor oil used like this... I was desperate once and had no bar oil for my chain saw and made my own.... 40W oil and some STP..... worked great!!!! Thanks for your reply... Dennis
 
Messages
2,410
Location
South Carolina
When I was a kid in the 50/60's there was no 2 cycle oil. My dad used straight-grade motor oil at 40:1. My old SeaGull outboard called for 30/40 grade at 20:1. Oil used to drip from the exhaust!
 
Messages
371
Location
Reno, Nevada
About the broken on/off switch, there might be times with a snowblower where you’d want to shut it off right away. I think I’d replace the broken keyed switch with a toggle switch.

Sounds to me like an interesting project and easily worth the $10.
 
Messages
36,516
Location
ME
Yes they used to use 4-cycle oil in two-strokes. I imagine it must have been awful, with the additives fouling everything. I've seen that instruction on 1960's outboards, and I've seen "SAE 30" on old cans of 2-stroke oil.

My chinese motorized bike motor even came with instructions to use 10w40 at 1:16 ratio. Nope!

You should look into a switch to ground out that motor for safety. Even a 50 cent wall light switch from home depot!
 
Messages
78
Location
Illinois
Both the use of 30W oil and the 32:1 ratio are long outdated. Fifty years ago this was the norm, but I don't think your snowblower is that old.You can use one of the many two cycle oils that are available today at a 50:1 ratio. Two cycle oil technology has come a long way.
 

Astro14

$100 Site Donor
Staff member
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13,238
Location
Virginia Beach
Yes they used to use 4-cycle oil in two-strokes. I imagine it must have been awful, with the additives fouling everything. I've seen that instruction on 1960's outboards, and I've seen "SAE 30" on old cans of 2-stroke oil.

My chinese motorized bike motor even came with instructions to use 10w40 at 1:16 ratio. Nope!

You should look into a switch to ground out that motor for safety. Even a 50 cent wall light switch from home depot!
Pretty low percentage of additives in motor oil back when it was mixed like that... Not as much of a problem as it would be today.
 
Messages
1,485
Location
Indiana
I've got a 90s version of this as a 22' Craftsman with the Tecumseh "Snow King" 5hp spec'd for 32:1 mix. I think yours definitely pre-dates mine, but it's a good machine. Looks like this one:
 
Messages
65
Location
North Ontario Canada
Two cycle motor oil only really became a thing in the 60s around the same time fortified automotive oils with detergent packages came a long.
The stuff they made for 4 cycle engines just was not good for 2 strokes because of the deposits. Early 2 stroke oils were chemistry experiments!
Some used graphite in the mix and you had to burn the fuel up quickly day or it would drop out of suspension, most oil would eventual stratify in the oil. Castor oils were great lubricants for performance engines but were gummy and varnished up the parts inside.

Things got better in the 70s when well engineered oils came along that differentiated between air and liquid cooled engines. Far and away you are better off to use modern 2 cycle oil in old engines than trying to use todays 4 cycle oils even if they are striaght non detergent oils like the OEM asked for.
 
Messages
43
My '77 Vespa P200E has an owner's manual that specifies 30-weight non-detergent oil for both its oil injection tank (it meters the oil into the carb), and in the separate gear box. The non-detergent is supposed to be key for the gears' lubrication to prevent cavitation and resulting gear wear. Using this oil in the engine now reportedly creates a lot of cumbustion chamber and exhaust system deposits that require fairly regular disassembly and removal, so it gets contemporary 2-stroke oil in the injection system and 80-weight gear oil now, and runs and starts fine, and doesn't "carbon up"..

My mid-90s Toro CCR-2000 snowblower specs 50:1 pre-mixed 2-stroke oil and fuel (no separate oil tank or auto-injection system like the Vespa), and, for years, it has been a one-tug starter and runner on 100:1 Amsoil Saber. Same for our '78 Puch Maxi 2-stroke moped.

Oh, and you want the "TC"-rated 2-stroke oil, not the "TC-W" stuff that goes into boat motors.
 
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Messages
65
Location
North Ontario Canada
That's a snow blower HA HA HA HA, I seen picture of those little things but I never lived in a place where it was a viable option!!!!!
No idea what that engine is. Years ago they used a Tecumseh Uni block ( based on old Lauson designs ). It called for modern 2 stroke oil, Toro used them lots of people did for small equip like that.
I I think what you have there is a Chinesium engine with Chinese oil availability in mind as of the 90s.

I don't know very much about Vespa, nothing at all really, I was a Tonnie boy more than a Mod so I rode a BSA. However Using the oil to do double duty like that does sound Very Italia, your mileage may varry...
 
Messages
43
Move to the tropics of central Michigan, and, with global warming, a single-stage blower has been fine for urban-ish driveway and sidewalk duty. My CCR-2000 has a Suzuki engine, though the Tecumseh engines were also put into them at some point. My OPE dealer says that, with the Suzuki engine, I'm unlikely to need another snowblower in my lifetime.
 
Messages
5,446
Location
Ohio
Move to the tropics of central Michigan, and, with global warming, a single-stage blower has been fine for urban-ish driveway and sidewalk duty. My CCR-2000 has a Suzuki engine, though the Tecumseh engines were also put into them at some point. My OPE dealer says that, with the Suzuki engine, I'm unlikely to need another snowblower in my lifetime.
That's a classic sale pitch.
 

professor229

Thread starter
Messages
10
Location
MN
Wow.... thanks for all the advice..... I have to laugh.... I had a few vehicles I restored over the years that used non-detergent oil and stocked that oil..... Last summer I listed a whole bunch of automotive "stuff" from restoration projects going back to 1971.... stuff I would never ever use again....and I found five/six quarts of non-detergent oil...... I listed them for $1 each and could not get any takers... and still have it.... When I rebuilt the Toro 200 model a few years ago, I read all about the mixture and 32:1 was what was recommended for those older machines at the time.... My chain saw is 50:1 and I have used some heavier mixed oil/gas ratios in that with the excess oil leaking out the muffler.... I also used enough two cycle in golf course equipment mowers over the years and that was older stuff that eventually blocked exhaust ports... and I learned the hard way about cleaning them.... As for these snowblowers being useful in Minnesota... I agree... they are not the answer ALL the time.... and I do have a larger newer Ariens... but this year, I could have used only one of these smaller units all the time.... They don't take up much room, seem to run forever if treated right, and I would use this one easily of four to six inch snowfalls or less....... sure beats shoveling even with a one inch snowfall... The guy I bought it from said these were common units that were used in his lifetime to remove snow from the roofs on buildings.... Anyway.... from what I read about the key switch, I think I have it right.... and simply, when you turn the key off... there are two wires to the switch and one wire does go to the block for a ground and that is how they must work..... and installing a toggle switch is easy....... remember the old metal flap by the spark plug you used to push with your shoe to ground that out??? Same thing I suspect.... easy to do, and a good idea using a toggle switch.... or something.... Again... thanks to all of you who took the time to answer some questions.... No ambition today (that happens a lot these days) but next week I will go out and put some premixed gas in my old red ketchup bottle and try to shoot some down the spark plug hole first.... and if the enginge fires, then I will squirt some in the butterfly of the carb and close that and try to see if it fires.... if so, I will then drop several ounces in the gas tank, open the shut off valve, shoot some in the carb, close the butterfly and see if it will run until warm and adjust the two needles.... who knows? for $10 I might learn something....
 
Messages
2
Both the use of 30W oil and the 32:1 ratio are long outdated. Fifty years ago this was the norm, but I don't think your snowblower is that old.You can use one of the many two cycle oils that are available today at a 50:1 ratio. Two cycle oil technology has come a long way.
I agree with you
 
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