Car&Driver Tire Test:Nine Affordable Summer Tires

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: pzev
If this board didn't have the time restriction on edits, I would have ammended that statement to include "depending on your location".


I agree with you. All seasons are a waste on a car that will never see cold temps or snow when summer tires generally do better in water anyway. There really isn't a place for them in Southern California.

Just ordered the NT05s for the TL (I can't help talking about them lol) but I did just order all seasons for the girlfiend's Murano knowing it may see one or two days a year in the snow. Tough desicion but I figured it would be worse to have no traction in the snow on summer tires than less than optimal traction in the dry on all seasons.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: crinkles
all totally useless for folks with non-sports cars. (the 99% of all cars)


I own a 03 Accord Lx 4 banger sedan.

I recently tossed the OEM Michilin 205/65 R15 all-seasons.

I replaced with General Exclaim UHP 225/50/ R17.

It has made a massive improvent in handling and braking.


Most people in this type car with these tires see 40K miles.

I am ok not getting 80K mile all-seasons.

I live in socal as well.NO need to sacrifice dry traction for mild snow traction I will NEVER see.

Taking corners is fun now.


The ONLY car I would trust an Energy MXV4 on is a Prius and nothing else.

The 40K Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S I have on my car are the best ones I've used - no whine in the turns, and it makes even 2+ ton luxobarges playful, like a kitten.

Toyos and Nittos are overrated, we've never had luck with them. Yet Les Schwab pushes them, and I feel Nittos are more appropriate on a Honda or a Miata.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: crinkles
all totally useless for folks with non-sports cars. (the 99% of all cars)


I own a 03 Accord Lx 4 banger sedan.

I recently tossed the OEM Michilin 205/65 R15 all-seasons.

I replaced with General Exclaim UHP 225/50/ R17.

It has made a massive improvent in handling and braking.


Most people in this type car with these tires see 40K miles.

I am ok not getting 80K mile all-seasons.

I live in socal as well.NO need to sacrifice dry traction for mild snow traction I will NEVER see.

Taking corners is fun now.



Toyos and Nittos are overrated, we've never had luck with them. Yet Les Schwab pushes them, and I feel Nittos are more appropriate on a Honda or a Miata.


How do you figure they're over rated? I've run their drag radials with some success, probably the best drag radial if you have to worry about getting caught out in the rain or don't want to heat them up on the street. The NT05s are supposed to be one step away from a full R compound race tire with nothing but glowing reviews from many Corvette, BMW, and Dodge owners. For $160 they outperform many tires that cost 50-100% more so I'm not sure how they're considered over rated.

 

[nthach]

Their drag radials are good, but I'm talking about their overhyped Extreme Performance, Neogen and Invo series - I have to say all the ricer/Honda mags such as Import Tuner and Super Street have done one heck of a job of glorifying them...

I know of someone with a Galant on 20" wheels which screwed his alignment up - don't ask, and a tire shop sold him Neogens which supposedly are designed with weird camber in mind. He ended up getting Hankook Ventus STs a few months later.

 

[DeeAgeaux]

The Neogens were designed with slammed fwd compacts in mind.

 

[pzev]

Never buy a tire marketed towards a sport compact, as they are typically all flash.
Suspension needs some room to articulate, idiots driving slammed compacts think their "[censored] looks dope!!", but they rarely understand that by having their car so low it scrapes, handling has gone out the window.

People think my car handles poorly because of a little body role in the corners...they never realise just how fast I am going through said corners. A few key bushing changes, SVT suspension swap, and some sticky tires, and my little Focus can suprise lots of people when it comes to taking a turn. Its only on the straights that I get reminded what I am driving lol!

 

[MI_Roger]

Originally Posted By: Buffman
glad to see the XS performed well.


The review of the XS tires was interesting. The drivers all loved them during the dry poritons of the test and were convinced these tires would be the ultimate champions. Then came the wet testing...........

The XS tires were described as "diabolical" in wet conditions. Extremely fast and sticky on dry roads, but don't even think of driving on them if water is present.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
The Neogens were designed with slammed fwd compacts in mind.

Do you really need Nittos on a freakin' Civic or Fit? I'd stick to Costco or Wal-Mart specials on those, unless it's a 8th gen Civic or a 2nd gen Fit or a Si of any year.

 

[pzev]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
The Neogens were designed with slammed fwd compacts in mind.

Do you really need Nittos on a freakin' Civic or Fit? I'd stick to Costco or Wal-Mart specials on those, unless it's a 8th gen Civic or a 2nd gen Fit or a Si of any year.


lol, as has been posted above...why sacrifice traction on any car? If anything, small nimble cars can benefit greatly from some quality rubber. Since they are lacking mass, perhaps increased traction could avoid an accident altogether?

Besides, the above poster was refering to the "tuner" crowd. These guys typically have cars so low they scrape, and are running more negative camber than is safe. They like an "aggressive" tread pattern, because what they lack in driving skill and actual power, they can make up with intimidating tires.

 

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
The Neogens were designed with slammed fwd compacts in mind.

Do you really need Nittos on a freakin' Civic or Fit? I'd stick to Costco or Wal-Mart specials on those, unless it's a 8th gen Civic or a 2nd gen Fit or a Si of any year.


Costco,at least in my area, carries only BFGoodrich or Michilin.

All as espensive as Nittos or more so.

All cars,especially those without great handling to begin with, can benefit greatly by a good set of tires.

 

[Old Mustang Guy]

I thought the test was relevant to me even though my Mustang GT has Kumho ASX all season high performance tires. It showed that Kumho can compare to the best. The all season tire gives me near summer performance yet good traction on those days in Texas when it does in fact get cold.

 

[unDummy]

A repeat of the tests with 10k or so miles on them would be interesting.

Too many people shop on the cheap or recommendation of the 'sales' guy from local "insert" tire shop.

I can't believe how many people walk in and have no clue what they are buying. I bet many end up with LingLong or equivalent deathtrap tires.

The OE Hankook Optimo's that I have are the worst tires I've ever had. Seems that most brands have multiple tires in any given size. Research and always buy the best tires you can afford. Your and your family's life ride on them.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
The Neogens were designed with slammed fwd compacts in mind.

Do you really need Nittos on a freakin' Civic or Fit? I'd stick to Costco or Wal-Mart specials on those, unless it's a 8th gen Civic or a 2nd gen Fit or a Si of any year.


Costco,at least in my area, carries only BFGoodrich or Michilin.

All as espensive as Nittos or more so.

All cars,especially those without great handling to begin with, can benefit greatly by a good set of tires.

Considering how Les Schwab and the ricer shops tend to wring you dry, BFGs are a [censored] of a deal...

 

[rshunter]

Costco currently has an exclusivity agreement with Michelin. So, if you're looking for a Michelin or BFGoodrich tire you've got it made. Anything else and you're out of luck...

 

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
The Neogens were designed with slammed fwd compacts in mind.

Do you really need Nittos on a freakin' Civic or Fit? I'd stick to Costco or Wal-Mart specials on those, unless it's a 8th gen Civic or a 2nd gen Fit or a Si of any year.


Costco,at least in my area, carries only BFGoodrich or Michilin.

All as espensive as Nittos or more so.

All cars,especially those without great handling to begin with, can benefit greatly by a good set of tires.

Considering how Les Schwab and the ricer shops tend to wring you dry, BFGs are a [censored] of a deal...


The shop I got my Generals from specializes in lifted trucks(w/ weld,boyd etc wheels) and "dub" wheels for the wannabe gansta rapper. They carry Nittos as well.

They just had a great deal on Exclaim UHPs. I guess they buy alot of Grabbers and get a good price from General.

No need for ricer shops that really specialize in parts from Japan and not tires. No Les Schwam in my neck of the woods.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: pzev
Never buy a tire marketed towards a sport compact, as they are typically all flash.
Suspension needs some room to articulate, idiots driving slammed compacts think their "[censored] looks dope!!", but they rarely understand that by having their car so low it scrapes, handling has gone out the window.

People think my car handles poorly because of a little body role in the corners...they never realise just how fast I am going through said corners. A few key bushing changes, SVT suspension swap, and some sticky tires, and my little Focus can suprise lots of people when it comes to taking a turn. Its only on the straights that I get reminded what I am driving lol!


You have no idea how right you are. I go around and around with the guys on acurazine about how a little bodyroll or a car that's not slammed will handle better than the cars that are sitting on their bumpstops. No one gets it. Lower automatically equals better handling and bodyroll is the devil. I've challened multiple people to go to Willow Springs to prove it but of course no takers.

On top of that they all put the same 24mm solid rear swaybar to go along with the factory 25mm hollow front and recommend them to everyone. I did the RSB myself and quickly realized what tail happy was all about. I had to buy a larger FSB to match it to balance the handling again. These guys don't know the first thing about taking it to the limit so they think the car handles great with just a rear bar even though it's tail happy and actually loses a couple mph through corners over stock.

With the addition of the front bar I had to increase the stiffness of the rear bar again because the car tended to understeer. I make a post about my findings and tuning the suspension and they just don't get it. They don't understand why my front bar is in the soft setting and recommend that I put it in the firm setting to reduce bodyroll even more not realizing it would make the car slower. Sorry for the rant but this has been going on for years.

Here's my car that some people at this weekend's meet refered to a 4X4 because it's so much higher than the other TLs. As you can see, it's not exactly high.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Their drag radials are good, but I'm talking about their overhyped Extreme Performance, Neogen and Invo series - I have to say all the ricer/Honda mags such as Import Tuner and Super Street have done one heck of a job of glorifying them...

I know of someone with a Galant on 20" wheels which screwed his alignment up - don't ask, and a tire shop sold him Neogens which supposedly are designed with weird camber in mind. He ended up getting Hankook Ventus STs a few months later.


I agree with you. I got my BFG G-force Sports before realizing they were recommended for the sport compact cars. After a year they are cracked all over, noisy, and have no grip. Seriously, braking performance is worse than the little 235s that came on the car.

The import tuner scene guys are retarded. "Tread looks" come before performance.

 

[pzev]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN

You have no idea how right you are. I go around and around with the guys on acurazine about how a little bodyroll or a car that's not slammed will handle better than the cars that are sitting on their bumpstops. No one gets it. Lower automatically equals better handling and bodyroll is the devil. I've challened multiple people to go to Willow Springs to prove it but of course no takers.

On top of that they all put the same 24mm solid rear swaybar to go along with the factory 25mm hollow front and recommend them to everyone. I did the RSB myself and quickly realized what tail happy was all about. I had to buy a larger FSB to match it to balance the handling again. These guys don't know the first thing about taking it to the limit so they think the car handles great with just a rear bar even though it's tail happy and actually loses a couple mph through corners over stock.

With the addition of the front bar I had to increase the stiffness of the rear bar again because the car tended to understeer. I make a post about my findings and tuning the suspension and they just don't get it. They don't understand why my front bar is in the soft setting and recommend that I put it in the firm setting to reduce bodyroll even more not realizing it would make the car slower. Sorry for the rant but this has been going on for years.

Here's my car that some people at this weekend's meet refered to a 4X4 because it's so much higher than the other TLs. As you can see, it's not exactly high.

I am hoping to have a little fun at willow before the end of summer. Hopefully I can pull it off, but there is a chance it will have to wait till early next year.

There are situations where super stiff suspension setups are required (stiff, not necessarily low), like when using slicks. That said, most street tires can't generate the lateral grip needed to overpower a more street friendly suspension setup.
Since my experience overall is limited, my suspension and tire choices will be plenty for me should I ever make it to Willow. I did spend some time at Bondurant racing school in Arizona, and the street tires on those cars were plenty.
Once I finish school I may make tracking a more regular hobby...if that happens, I'll dump the street setup and make my Focus a dedicated track car. It still won't be dragging on the ground though!

 

[BuickGN]

As of right now I don't have the traction to produce any appreciable body roll. That's why I don't understand these guys basically making fun of me for having a softer suspension. We'll see what happens when the Nittos arrive.

I loved watching the other slammed TLs with .5" of travel skip around over bumps mid corner while my suspension takes them up with no problems.

We're trying to get a big group of people together for Willow later in the year. You're more than welcome to go.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I got my BFG G-force Sports before realizing they were recommended for the sport compact cars. After a year they are cracked all over, noisy, and have no grip. Seriously, braking performance is worse than the little 235s that came on the car.


I guess I was lucky that they were back-ordered!