Most used cars in America passes through dealer-only car auctions. Unless you trade in a late model creampuff that the dealer wants to sell on his own lot, or cars just coming off lease, off to a car auction it goes. Auction is the purest form of setting market prices and maybe the best way to get data on a huge volume of used cars of all brands. Dashboard Light also does not "review" with or without liar's quotes, they gather statistics and publish them.
Can't trust JD Power ratings... LOL
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I still have not read one bit of PROOF that JDP is taking bribes to rate vehicles from first to last depending on who pays up. I read speculation, feelings, and conjecture that JDP ratings are based just on bribe money, but not one single shred of PROOF has been presented.
Anyone??
Anyone??
My only personal experience with a Subaru is with the GF's 2000 Forester. It's a horribly overpriced vehicle that makes my 1995 Escort look good. She likes her 2011 Edge much better.
Jd Power has zero effect on my choice. I have had highly rated vehicles be nothing but problems and low rated cars last much longer than even I expected
wemay
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
I still have not read one bit of PROOF that JDP is taking bribes to rate vehicles from first to last depending on who pays up. I read speculation, feelings, and conjecture that JDP ratings are based just on bribe money, but not one single shred of PROOF has been presented.
Anyone??
Agreed, I've not seen any.
I still have not read one bit of PROOF that JDP is taking bribes to rate vehicles from first to last depending on who pays up. I read speculation, feelings, and conjecture that JDP ratings are based just on bribe money, but not one single shred of PROOF has been presented.
Anyone??
Agreed, I've not seen any.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Nick1994
......Subaru makes outdated and underpowered cars. They aren't very appealing........
That rev their guts out at highway speeds.
That's true, but I don't really see too many downsides. The only thing I'm worried about is wearing out the driveshaft u joint or carrier bearing. I've gone 6000 miles on this oil change and a decent amount of miles were towing my camper. 65MPH at 2600 RPM with my foot in the throttle towing the camper and it didn't burn a drop and got 26MPG doing so.
It's a Japanese 4 cylinder; they like to rev. It's not an old flathead with a moderate cam that can't breathe above 1500RPM.
Originally Posted by Nick1994
......Subaru makes outdated and underpowered cars. They aren't very appealing........
That rev their guts out at highway speeds.
That's true, but I don't really see too many downsides. The only thing I'm worried about is wearing out the driveshaft u joint or carrier bearing. I've gone 6000 miles on this oil change and a decent amount of miles were towing my camper. 65MPH at 2600 RPM with my foot in the throttle towing the camper and it didn't burn a drop and got 26MPG doing so.
It's a Japanese 4 cylinder; they like to rev. It's not an old flathead with a moderate cam that can't breathe above 1500RPM.
Originally Posted by skyactiv
JD Power is for people who are dumb and not vehicle savvy.
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
Jd Power has zero effect on my choice.
Agreed...
I am an automotive fanatic and JD Power hasn't crossed my mind in years.
JD Power is for people who are dumb and not vehicle savvy.
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
Jd Power has zero effect on my choice.
Agreed...
I am an automotive fanatic and JD Power hasn't crossed my mind in years.
Originally Posted by Miller88
65MPH at 2600 RPM with my foot in the throttle towing the camper and it didn't burn a drop and got 26MPG doing so. It's a Japanese 4 cylinder; they like to rev. It's not an old flathead with a moderate cam that can't breathe above 1500RPM.
My new Camry 2.5, 4-Cylinder turns barely 2,000 RPM at almost 80 MPH. And gets close to 40 MPG doing it. Yet it is capable of revving as high as 7,000. But for what purpose? Higher RPM's translate into increased wear, along with lower fuel economy. There is no way around it. Subaru touts all wheel drive with small, underpowered engines for that task. So they have to rev them in order to get any power out of them.
65MPH at 2600 RPM with my foot in the throttle towing the camper and it didn't burn a drop and got 26MPG doing so. It's a Japanese 4 cylinder; they like to rev. It's not an old flathead with a moderate cam that can't breathe above 1500RPM.
My new Camry 2.5, 4-Cylinder turns barely 2,000 RPM at almost 80 MPH. And gets close to 40 MPG doing it. Yet it is capable of revving as high as 7,000. But for what purpose? Higher RPM's translate into increased wear, along with lower fuel economy. There is no way around it. Subaru touts all wheel drive with small, underpowered engines for that task. So they have to rev them in order to get any power out of them.
Originally Posted by wemay
dashboard-light only "reviews" auctioned vehicles. No thanks.
I'll keep using Consumer Reports and JD Power.
"Different strokes..."
Which have on average over 100k miles on the odometer.
dashboard-light only "reviews" auctioned vehicles. No thanks.
I'll keep using Consumer Reports and JD Power.
"Different strokes..."
Which have on average over 100k miles on the odometer.
I read something in this month's Car and Driver that made me think about why I think my Subarus have been appealing to me. First off, they're not "cookie cutter". Nobody outside of Porsche uses the Boxer design, which is both a badge of honor and maybe one of stubbornness. 2nd, I agree that from the factory, Subarus (at least everything outside of the WRX/STi family) are generally soft-sprung, under-swaybar'd, a little shy on braking power, and obviously short on power compared to their contemporaries. But, when you own one of these cars, there is a certain joy when driving them hard; sure, objectively speaking there's nothing to be excited about. But when you start to hustle these HARD around turns, to the point of squealing tires and your wife going "THAT'S ENOUGH!" while you have your devilish grin on, all of the lack of exceptional numbers starts to fade. You can have an absolute blast in the snow - for a day you can be Ken Block sliding around the high school parking lot with your kids screaming in excitement. You can drive it down a 4-wheeler trail in haste hanging the tail out while never exceeding 30mph. And all the while, there is never enough speed involved to kill you, because well, 175HP in close quarters just isn't going to break much more than a bumper cover.
I think that's the biggest area where Subaru is different than most (as a whole). They've talked about it with the new Supra. They talk about it with cars like an off-road 911- chasing ultimate numbers like acceleration and skidpad and stopping like you hit the gate at Cheyenne Mountain may be great on paper, but there is no real joy in this, mainly because to test all of those things you can never do it on surface streets without risk of death or getting Bubba as your next cellmate. But the Subarus are almost 100% accessible to max or exceed any of its performance capabilities, all while never exceeding 65mph. I dunno. I know those of you who shop just based on numbers or looks or "cachet" will likely never own a Subaru, and I'm cool with that. But those of you who have had a Subaru and driven it at the edge of its performance envelope have likely had a good time doing it. Thanks for all the comments, even you Negative Nancy's.
It's usually right around the time that everybody starts loving something that the company loses its way and ruins the very reason people came in the first place. So for that, I'm glad you guys still don't like them.
I think that's the biggest area where Subaru is different than most (as a whole). They've talked about it with the new Supra. They talk about it with cars like an off-road 911- chasing ultimate numbers like acceleration and skidpad and stopping like you hit the gate at Cheyenne Mountain may be great on paper, but there is no real joy in this, mainly because to test all of those things you can never do it on surface streets without risk of death or getting Bubba as your next cellmate. But the Subarus are almost 100% accessible to max or exceed any of its performance capabilities, all while never exceeding 65mph. I dunno. I know those of you who shop just based on numbers or looks or "cachet" will likely never own a Subaru, and I'm cool with that. But those of you who have had a Subaru and driven it at the edge of its performance envelope have likely had a good time doing it. Thanks for all the comments, even you Negative Nancy's.
It's usually right around the time that everybody starts loving something that the company loses its way and ruins the very reason people came in the first place. So for that, I'm glad you guys still don't like them.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
I read something in this month's Car and Driver that made me think about why I think my Subarus have been appealing to me. First off, they're not "cookie cutter". Nobody outside of Porsche uses the Boxer design, which is both a badge of honor and maybe one of stubbornness. 2nd, I agree that from the factory, Subarus (at least everything outside of the WRX/STi family) are generally soft-sprung, under-swaybar'd, a little shy on braking power, and obviously short on power compared to their contemporaries. But, when you own one of these cars, there is a certain joy when driving them hard; sure, objectively speaking there's nothing to be excited about. But when you start to hustle these HARD around turns, to the point of squealing tires and your wife going "THAT'S ENOUGH!" while you have your devilish grin on, all of the lack of exceptional numbers starts to fade. You can have an absolute blast in the snow - for a day you can be Ken Block sliding around the high school parking lot with your kids screaming in excitement. You can drive it down a 4-wheeler trail in haste hanging the tail out while never exceeding 30mph. And all the while, there is never enough speed involved to kill you, because well, 175HP in close quarters just isn't going to break much more than a bumper cover.
I think that's the biggest area where Subaru is different than most (as a whole). They've talked about it with the new Supra. They talk about it with cars like an off-road 911- chasing ultimate numbers like acceleration and skidpad and stopping like you hit the gate at Cheyenne Mountain may be great on paper, but there is no real joy in this, mainly because to test all of those things you can never do it on surface streets without risk of death or getting Bubba as your next cellmate. But the Subarus are almost 100% accessible to max or exceed any of its performance capabilities, all while never exceeding 65mph. I dunno. I know those of you who shop just based on numbers or looks or "cachet" will likely never own a Subaru, and I'm cool with that. But those of you who have had a Subaru and driven it at the edge of its performance envelope have likely had a good time doing it. Thanks for all the comments, even you Negative Nancy's.
It's usually right around the time that everybody starts loving something that the company loses its way and ruins the very reason people came in the first place. So for that, I'm glad you guys still don't like them.
This is exactly what people mean by "slow car fast>fast car slow." Even my 300 is borderline too much, it gets into reckless driving territory quickly. There is something to be said about being able to drive in a "spirited" manner without being a menace.
I read something in this month's Car and Driver that made me think about why I think my Subarus have been appealing to me. First off, they're not "cookie cutter". Nobody outside of Porsche uses the Boxer design, which is both a badge of honor and maybe one of stubbornness. 2nd, I agree that from the factory, Subarus (at least everything outside of the WRX/STi family) are generally soft-sprung, under-swaybar'd, a little shy on braking power, and obviously short on power compared to their contemporaries. But, when you own one of these cars, there is a certain joy when driving them hard; sure, objectively speaking there's nothing to be excited about. But when you start to hustle these HARD around turns, to the point of squealing tires and your wife going "THAT'S ENOUGH!" while you have your devilish grin on, all of the lack of exceptional numbers starts to fade. You can have an absolute blast in the snow - for a day you can be Ken Block sliding around the high school parking lot with your kids screaming in excitement. You can drive it down a 4-wheeler trail in haste hanging the tail out while never exceeding 30mph. And all the while, there is never enough speed involved to kill you, because well, 175HP in close quarters just isn't going to break much more than a bumper cover.
I think that's the biggest area where Subaru is different than most (as a whole). They've talked about it with the new Supra. They talk about it with cars like an off-road 911- chasing ultimate numbers like acceleration and skidpad and stopping like you hit the gate at Cheyenne Mountain may be great on paper, but there is no real joy in this, mainly because to test all of those things you can never do it on surface streets without risk of death or getting Bubba as your next cellmate. But the Subarus are almost 100% accessible to max or exceed any of its performance capabilities, all while never exceeding 65mph. I dunno. I know those of you who shop just based on numbers or looks or "cachet" will likely never own a Subaru, and I'm cool with that. But those of you who have had a Subaru and driven it at the edge of its performance envelope have likely had a good time doing it. Thanks for all the comments, even you Negative Nancy's.
It's usually right around the time that everybody starts loving something that the company loses its way and ruins the very reason people came in the first place. So for that, I'm glad you guys still don't like them.
This is exactly what people mean by "slow car fast>fast car slow." Even my 300 is borderline too much, it gets into reckless driving territory quickly. There is something to be said about being able to drive in a "spirited" manner without being a menace.
Plus they aren't all that slow.
Our '09 is governed to around 98 mph and is not quick to get there while our '17 easily and briskly passes through the ton.
Our old '99 Legacy 2.2 happily redlines the first three gears and handles really well.
Not sure how this Subarus are slow thing got started, but they're no slower than Honda, Mazda or Toyota sedans, none of which have AWD.
The old 2.2 Legacy is also exceptionally smooth while the 2.5s aren't, although the larger displacement Honda and Toyota fours aren't either.
Subarus remain something of a niche offering. Lord help us if Toyota starts forcing their transverse powertrains on Subaru.
Our '09 is governed to around 98 mph and is not quick to get there while our '17 easily and briskly passes through the ton.
Our old '99 Legacy 2.2 happily redlines the first three gears and handles really well.
Not sure how this Subarus are slow thing got started, but they're no slower than Honda, Mazda or Toyota sedans, none of which have AWD.
The old 2.2 Legacy is also exceptionally smooth while the 2.5s aren't, although the larger displacement Honda and Toyota fours aren't either.
Subarus remain something of a niche offering. Lord help us if Toyota starts forcing their transverse powertrains on Subaru.
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by benjamming
Initial quality is quite different than reliability.
IMO, people put far too much stock in initial quality ratings. They really have little to do with long term reliability...
If it's junk when it's new things usually don't improve.
Originally Posted by benjamming
Initial quality is quite different than reliability.
IMO, people put far too much stock in initial quality ratings. They really have little to do with long term reliability...
If it's junk when it's new things usually don't improve.
Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by benjamming
Initial quality is quite different than reliability.
IMO, people put far too much stock in initial quality ratings. They really have little to do with long term reliability...
If it's junk when it's new things usually don't improve.
If it's great when it's new, doesn't mean it's still going to be great at 100K miles...
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by benjamming
Initial quality is quite different than reliability.
IMO, people put far too much stock in initial quality ratings. They really have little to do with long term reliability...
If it's junk when it's new things usually don't improve.
If it's great when it's new, doesn't mean it's still going to be great at 100K miles...
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I've never understood why they do reliability reports on something brand new.
Originally Posted by motor_oil_madman
I've never understood why they do reliability reports on something brand new.
It's a 90 day survey and if the vehicle has a lot of issues within this honeymoon period it might be wise for a new car buyer to look elsewhere.
I've never understood why they do reliability reports on something brand new.
It's a 90 day survey and if the vehicle has a lot of issues within this honeymoon period it might be wise for a new car buyer to look elsewhere.
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Most things that are well made have a long production run, you're best sticking with that.
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