Can't find UOA results for the Corvette LS7 engine

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Originally Posted By: glennc
Just remember, the domestic industry will not thrive because of people who automatically buy American, it will thrive (if it does) because of people who were willing to buy the best, therefore forcing them to compete at that level.


Also just remember, the domestic industry will not thrive because of brainwashed shlemmings who refuse to buy their products, even when they are, AND despite them being the equal of, or even superior to their import nameplate competition.
OK??

BTW; don't want to start a whole other off topic s***storm, but I DID BUY THE BEST I could within a new car performance/reliability/aesthetics/fuel mileage pricepoint.
I'm just VERY happy it turned out to be a domestic nameplate as well!
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Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
The area's in that block in question that have significantly better materials then the rest of the fleet but lower block flex is still an issue even with the different casting. The internal harmonics are still very close tot he rest of the series.While the valve train materials are lighter and better I doubt it will make much difference in terms of wear since the basic geometry is the same and the ramp angles and vale loads are probably more radical. The bearings and bushings and ring materials are probably close to the rest of this engine familys so that too should produce simalar wear numbers. So unless the bottom end is massively stiffer and the ring,came and bearing materials are radicaly different we should see simalar signiture. Block flex is the key to wear. If you have a stiff block and use high end materials wear is always low.


You know all of this above as fact??
If so, that's pretty good for a Toyota only man.

But then you would also know that they have titanium connecting rods, plasma moly coated pistons/rings (possibly from Mahle), probably at least a slightly different sleeve material, and a dry sump oiling system, as well as being hand built to more exacting tolerances, right??
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
Quote:
The British used to have a saying: "Big engine, big tires, big deal." But the Corvette is undeniably a world class performance car and kudos to GM for it.


One of the best things about the Corvette is that it's got performance close to that of the exotics, at a fraction of the price AND they are cars you can drive everyday! It's not unusual to see Corvettes out there with 200,000 miles on them and they still run like new.


Could not have said it better, Patman!!!
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And I will add; the Brits have little right to talk about things concerning automotive performance/reliability (in the past, at least).

What was that old adage about why they found a love for warm beer?!?!
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: glennc
Just remember, the domestic industry will not thrive because of people who automatically buy American, it will thrive (if it does) because of people who were willing to buy the best, therefore forcing them to compete at that level.


Also just remember, the domestic industry will not thrive because of brainwashed shlemmings who refuse to buy their products, even when they are, AND despite them being the equal of, or even superior to their import nameplate competition.
OK??

BTW; don't want to start a whole other off topic s***storm, but I DID BUY THE BEST I could within a new car performance/reliability/aesthetics/fuel mileage pricepoint.
I'm just VERY happy it turned out to be a domestic nameplate as well!
34.gif



Man you just nailed it with that one. GM has raised the quality of there cars and trucks 10 fold compared to 10 years ago. They are as good or better than the majority of the imports. There are way to many idiots that simply refuse to see it or admit it and continue to buy foreign. Its a shame really.

Your also right about driving the best! I see you have a 2000 Z28. The LSX line of engines has proven to be amazing in every aspect. I get 31mpg highway out of my 350hp 99 SS Camaro M6. How about you? My fiances G35X gets conciderably less mpg and it makes less hp and has had more problems than my car ever has.

In my book GM is king from the 50's all the way up till today. They had a few bad years but so did all auto makers.


99SSwithnewwheels003.jpg
 
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Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Your also right about driving the best! I see you have a 2000 Z28. The LSX line of engines has proven to be amazing in every aspect. I get 31mpg highway out of my 350hp 99 SS Camaro M6. How about you? My fiances G35X gets conciderably less mpg and it makes less hp and has had more problems than my car ever has.

In my book GM is king from the 50's all the way up till today. They had a few bad years but so did all auto makers.


99SSwithnewwheels003.jpg



NICE RIDE!!
thumbsup2.gif


I've returned 32-33 mpg on some long steady highway trips.
Let's see their Camrys/Accords/whatever do that and turn in a mid 12 second 1/4 mile for < $22K new, out the door!!!!!!!

See, I guess I'm "thin-skinned", as some of the import faithful/worshipping would call me because of the afforementioned (by me) 'import nameplate militants' on here calling me an outright lier for claims I've made about my car.
They just cannot believe (OR are sooo brainwashed they are incapable of believing) that a GM/domestic can be; fast, reliable, long lasting, get decent fuel mileage, cost so little, etc., etc.

But then SO FEW of them give two s**** about performance anyway, so it's a futile effort most of the time!!
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Here's an old outdated GM pushrod V6 with less than $1,500 in mods against my super high tech OHC 11:1 $40K TL. Imports rule lol.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Buick256


I love GN's!!! A guy in our car club has one with a kenny dutweiler built engine and a big turbo. It runs 9's all day long and drives great on the street.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Your also right about driving the best! I see you have a 2000 Z28. The LSX line of engines has proven to be amazing in every aspect. I get 31mpg highway out of my 350hp 99 SS Camaro M6. How about you? My fiances G35X gets conciderably less mpg and it makes less hp and has had more problems than my car ever has.

In my book GM is king from the 50's all the way up till today. They had a few bad years but so did all auto makers.


99SSwithnewwheels003.jpg



NICE RIDE!!
thumbsup2.gif


I've returned 32-33 mpg on some long steady highway trips.
Let's see their Camrys/Accords/whatever do that and turn in a mid 12 second 1/4 mile for < $22K new, out the door!!!!!!!

See, I guess I'm "thin-skinned", as some of the import faithful/worshipping would call me because of the afforementioned (by me) 'import nameplate militants' on here calling me an outright lier for claims I've made about my car.
They just cannot believe (OR are sooo brainwashed they are incapable of believing) that a GM/domestic can be; fast, reliable, long lasting, get decent fuel mileage, cost so little, etc., etc.

But then SO FEW of them give two s**** about performance anyway, so it's a futile effort most of the time!!



Kids now days have the mind set that imports are so much better than domestic. What really cracks me up is the import guys comeing on the show PINKS and thinking they actually have a chance to win against a domestic just to find out they just lost there car after getting there @$$ handed to them. I am actually embarrased for these import guys once in a while.

I have gotten upwards of 33mpg on a 300 mile trip up to the poconos of PA.
 
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I think the situation you are overlooking is at least 1 generation, possibly 2 gens, have grown up with parents/relatives/neighbors all buying Toyos Hondas Nissans. Guess what they buy for their first car?
This issue will take 1 or 2 genreations to reverse itself if it started today.
PS GM all the way- just bought an 02 Z06 with 10K miles to sit next to my 95 Corvette in the garage.
Steve
 
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Here's an old outdated GM pushrod V6 with less than $1,500 in mods against my super high tech OHC 11:1 $40K TL. Imports rule lol.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Buick256


I love GN's!!! A guy in our car club has one with a kenny dutweiler built engine and a big turbo. It runs 9's all day long and drives great on the street.


The Buick Grand National is STILL one of my dream cars!
11.gif
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
In defense of GM,I consider the GM 3800 V6 to be one of the best engines ever made.


That's why it needs nearly twice the displacement AND A SUPERCHARGER to make the same horsepower my naturally aspirated 4-cylinder 2.0 liter Honda S2000 engine makes.

I know a lot of GM engineers. One of the guys I grew up with is a GM powertrain engineer. They will sit and argue all day long how a 2 valve cam-in-the-valley motor is superior to a 4 valve motor. It's a culture thing. They are old school and are having a hard time letting it go.

My girfriend just bought a brand new saturn Vue with the 3.6 liter dual overhead cam 4 valve/cyle engine. That thing gets up and goes! Why it took GM this long to start developing 4 valve motors is beyond me. I've owned a 3.8, and it's a boat anchor compared to this new 24 valve 3.6. The bad news is their 3.6 is still a boat anchor compared to Nissans VQ motors for example.

I guess that's what happens when you adopt a technology 25 years after your competitors. Then you have to start scrambling to play catch up when you're facing bankruptcy.
 
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Your also right about driving the best! I see you have a 2000 Z28. The LSX line of engines has proven to be amazing in every aspect. I get 31mpg highway out of my 350hp 99 SS Camaro M6. How about you? My fiances G35X gets conciderably less mpg and it makes less hp and has had more problems than my car ever has.

In my book GM is king from the 50's all the way up till today. They had a few bad years but so did all auto makers.


99SSwithnewwheels003.jpg



NICE RIDE!!
thumbsup2.gif


I've returned 32-33 mpg on some long steady highway trips.
Let's see their Camrys/Accords/whatever do that and turn in a mid 12 second 1/4 mile for < $22K new, out the door!!!!!!!

See, I guess I'm "thin-skinned", as some of the import faithful/worshipping would call me because of the afforementioned (by me) 'import nameplate militants' on here calling me an outright lier for claims I've made about my car.
They just cannot believe (OR are sooo brainwashed they are incapable of believing) that a GM/domestic can be; fast, reliable, long lasting, get decent fuel mileage, cost so little, etc., etc.

But then SO FEW of them give two s**** about performance anyway, so it's a futile effort most of the time!!



Kids now days have the mind set that imports are so much better than domestic. What really cracks me up is the import guys comeing on the show PINKS and thinking they actually have a chance to win against a domestic just to find out they just lost there car after getting there @$$ handed to them. I am actually embarrased for these import guys once in a while.

I have gotten upwards of 33mpg on a 300 mile trip up to the poconos of PA.


I'm 31 and when I was about 18, the import thing started taking off. I've had the GN since I was 17 and I've watched as the IQ of the average "racer" has gone down to nearly 0. The fast and the furious didn't help things. One thing I've learned is the vast majority of the import crowd stays far, far away from a track because I think deep down inside they know they're slow.

I like my TL a lot but the thought of racing it never crossed my mind except just messing around with my friends like in the video. I overheard a kid in a Civic talking about how there just aren't anymore cars to race in this town because he's beat them all and he runs 9s. I couldn't help but to point over to the GN (the one in the video) and tell him he can run that since it's only an 11.60 car and stock from the throttlebody down. Then the excuses started flowing.

The LSx powered cars are just amazing. What exactly makes a DOHC motor better when the LS series with their cathedral style heads are flowing more air while still maintaining good velocity, have a broad flat torque curve, get better mileage, and fit in a smaller package? Yet some people still can't get past the fact that they use pushrods.
 
Originally Posted By: Detroit_Doc
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
In defense of GM,I consider the GM 3800 V6 to be one of the best engines ever made.


That's why it needs nearly twice the displacement AND A SUPERCHARGER to make the same horsepower my naturally aspirated 4-cylinder 2.0 liter Honda S2000 engine makes.

I know a lot of GM engineers. One of the guys I grew up with is a GM powertrain engineer. They will sit and argue all day long how a 2 valve cam-in-the-valley motor is superior to a 4 valve motor. It's a culture thing. They are old school and are having a hard time letting it go.

My girfriend just bought a brand new saturn Vue with the 3.6 liter dual overhead cam 4 valve/cyle engine. That thing gets up and goes! Why it took GM this long to start developing 4 valve motors is beyond me. I've owned a 3.8, and it's a boat anchor compared to this new 24 valve 3.6. The bad news is their 3.6 is still a boat anchor compared to Nissans VQ motors for example.

I guess that's what happens when you adopt a technology 25 years after your competitors. Then you have to start scrambling to play catch up when you're facing bankruptcy.






So wrong in so many ways im not even going to get into it with you. Just look at the LSX engines. Case closed.
 
Originally Posted By: Detroit_Doc
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
In defense of GM,I consider the GM 3800 V6 to be one of the best engines ever made.


That's why it needs nearly twice the displacement AND A SUPERCHARGER to make the same horsepower my naturally aspirated 4-cylinder 2.0 liter Honda S2000 engine makes.

I know a lot of GM engineers. One of the guys I grew up with is a GM powertrain engineer. They will sit and argue all day long how a 2 valve cam-in-the-valley motor is superior to a 4 valve motor. It's a culture thing. They are old school and are having a hard time letting it go.

My girfriend just bought a brand new saturn Vue with the 3.6 liter dual overhead cam 4 valve/cyle engine. That thing gets up and goes! Why it took GM this long to start developing 4 valve motors is beyond me. I've owned a 3.8, and it's a boat anchor compared to this new 24 valve 3.6. The bad news is their 3.6 is still a boat anchor compared to Nissans VQ motors for example.

I guess that's what happens when you adopt a technology 25 years after your competitors. Then you have to start scrambling to play catch up when you're facing bankruptcy.






Ever heard of this thing called torque? If only Honda was smart enough to use an LS2 in the S2000, they would've had twice the power, more usable power, better gas mileage, and some actual torque. In all seriousness, it would have been a better car in every way.

I prefer the effortless acceleration of a torque monster on the street than a high strung 4 banger that you have to downshift 3 gears just to move around in traffic. Even my V6 TL annoys me sometimes with the need to downshift everytime I want to go somewhere. And that boatanchor NA 3800 in my mother's POS '02 Bonneville takes my TL to 60mph.
 
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: Detroit_Doc
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
In defense of GM,I consider the GM 3800 V6 to be one of the best engines ever made.


That's why it needs nearly twice the displacement AND A SUPERCHARGER to make the same horsepower my naturally aspirated 4-cylinder 2.0 liter Honda S2000 engine makes.

I know a lot of GM engineers. One of the guys I grew up with is a GM powertrain engineer. They will sit and argue all day long how a 2 valve cam-in-the-valley motor is superior to a 4 valve motor. It's a culture thing. They are old school and are having a hard time letting it go.

My girfriend just bought a brand new saturn Vue with the 3.6 liter dual overhead cam 4 valve/cyle engine. That thing gets up and goes! Why it took GM this long to start developing 4 valve motors is beyond me. I've owned a 3.8, and it's a boat anchor compared to this new 24 valve 3.6. The bad news is their 3.6 is still a boat anchor compared to Nissans VQ motors for example.

I guess that's what happens when you adopt a technology 25 years after your competitors. Then you have to start scrambling to play catch up when you're facing bankruptcy.






So wrong in so many ways im not even going to get into it with you. Just look at the LSX engines. Case closed.


Yup. Ford's 2000 Cobra-R engine is another example. 425HP, 330ci (5.4L). But it IS DOHC..... But Ford has been doing the OHC thing since way before Honda was making cars. As was GM.
 
I am anything but a GM or US car company apologist, but I do have a question for you.

Since there are no displacement classes on the street, displacement is largely irrelevant for most American car buyers.

Eliminating displacement from the equation, but considering outside engine dimensions, weight, drivability, fuel economy and manufacturing cost, which 400+ horsepower 4 cammer engine would you call better than a 400+ horsepower aluminum block LSx?.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Your also right about driving the best! I see you have a 2000 Z28. The LSX line of engines has proven to be amazing in every aspect. I get 31mpg highway out of my 350hp 99 SS Camaro M6. How about you? My fiances G35X gets conciderably less mpg and it makes less hp and has had more problems than my car ever has.

In my book GM is king from the 50's all the way up till today. They had a few bad years but so did all auto makers.


99SSwithnewwheels003.jpg



NICE RIDE!!
thumbsup2.gif


I've returned 32-33 mpg on some long steady highway trips.
Let's see their Camrys/Accords/whatever do that and turn in a mid 12 second 1/4 mile for < $22K new, out the door!!!!!!!

See, I guess I'm "thin-skinned", as some of the import faithful/worshipping would call me because of the afforementioned (by me) 'import nameplate militants' on here calling me an outright lier for claims I've made about my car.
They just cannot believe (OR are sooo brainwashed they are incapable of believing) that a GM/domestic can be; fast, reliable, long lasting, get decent fuel mileage, cost so little, etc., etc.

But then SO FEW of them give two s**** about performance anyway, so it's a futile effort most of the time!!



Kids now days have the mind set that imports are so much better than domestic. What really cracks me up is the import guys comeing on the show PINKS and thinking they actually have a chance to win against a domestic just to find out they just lost there car after getting there @$$ handed to them. I am actually embarrased for these import guys once in a while.

I have gotten upwards of 33mpg on a 300 mile trip up to the poconos of PA.


I'm 31 and when I was about 18, the import thing started taking off. I've had the GN since I was 17 and I've watched as the IQ of the average "racer" has gone down to nearly 0. The fast and the furious didn't help things. One thing I've learned is the vast majority of the import crowd stays far, far away from a track because I think deep down inside they know they're slow.

I like my TL a lot but the thought of racing it never crossed my mind except just messing around with my friends like in the video. I overheard a kid in a Civic talking about how there just aren't anymore cars to race in this town because he's beat them all and he runs 9s. I couldn't help but to point over to the GN (the one in the video) and tell him he can run that since it's only an 11.60 car and stock from the throttlebody down. Then the excuses started flowing.

The LSx powered cars are just amazing. What exactly makes a DOHC motor better when the LS series with their cathedral style heads are flowing more air while still maintaining good velocity, have a broad flat torque curve, get better mileage, and fit in a smaller package? Yet some people still can't get past the fact that they use pushrods.



You got that right. The poor kids now days have no clue. Then again maybe thats a good thing. I could see these same kids in a REAL car making REAL power and killing themselfs out on the street. I am 29 almost 30. My first car I bought when I was 15. I dropped in a 350hp ZZ4 crate motor, turbo 350 trans with shift kit and 3.73 gears in a mint 1982 Z28 camaro. That car was light and it moved out pretty good. Yet I never once street raced it. Im not going to say I didnt get down on it once in a while but I was one of the rare responsable kids.

Dumbest thing I ever did was go over 130 on the PA turnpike when I was about 21.

Here is what I have to say about OHC engines. If they were so [censored] great then why are the ford versions (4.6 and 5.4) absolute TURDS? Sure ford got some power out of them but they had to use a roots blower to do it. They make no bottom end power when they are N/A and thats why they are dogs off the line compared to a GM pushrod engine. The LSX head design is simply amazing. Most people dont even know they are 18 degree cylinder heads. Exactly like the 18 degree heads found on nascar engines.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
I am anything but a GM or US car company apologist, but I do have a question for you.

Since there are no displacement classes on the street, displacement is largely irrelevant for most American car buyers.

Eliminating displacement from the equation, but considering outside engine dimensions, weight, drivability, fuel economy and manufacturing cost, which 400+ horsepower 4 cammer engine would you call better than a 400+ horsepower aluminum block LSx?.



I don't think anyone will argue that a 4 cam 32 valve motor is more expensive to produce and it is typically much larger externally and heavier.

As for the hp, what is the need for the extra valves and cams when you can get the same or better flow from an OHV motor with the same drivability? The LSx heads really are a masterpiece.

I race a lot.....when my car is running. If I had to jump camps it would be to the LSx camp if all out power is the goal. With one or two exceptions, imports are a joke on the street.
 
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro

So wrong in so many ways im not even going to get into it with you. Just look at the LSX engines. Case closed.


I owned a Firehawk so I am familiar. The LSX motors are outdated and have dismal specific output numbers. Even the hand built LS7's specific output numbers barely match those of an every day accord or camry. Yes they make it up with displacement, but that's just a crutch for lack of R&D.

People can put the blinders on and argue how great American engineering is. But the bottom line is that all three American car companies are a breath away from folding. There is probably an excellent reason for that fact.
 
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