Canola - real results

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Is there a certain brand or something else to look for in Canola? I looked at a few, most just said "100% Canola".


Honestly I didn't put that much thought into it at the start; I just bought a bottle off the shelf and called it done. For the 25% and 50% tests, though, I plan to use a brand that uses cold press extraction rather than chemical extraction, as the hexane used in chemical extraction needs to be bleached/cooked out, which does alter the properties of the oil somewhat.

I 'm using a store brand oil at the moment, so I am unsure of the source or extraction method.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
So... you put Canola oil in the crank case? How much? What car? What effects do you expect to achieve?


He is pulling your leg. He stated in some other thread this was simply a joke.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
So... you put Canola oil in the crank case? How much? What car? What effects do you expect to achieve?


He is pulling your leg. He stated in some other thread this was simply a joke.


Who's pulling legs here?

 

[TuBon_gRips]

As promised, here are compression numbers to verify what I suspected. Yes, my compression has increased while running canola as an additive.

At the end of January, I tested my compression and got the following results:
COLD: 170, 175, 171, 176
WARM: 171, 170, 175, 176

No change, hot or cold, and a 6psi variance from the highest to the lowest.

Today's numbers are a little different; nothing huge, but then I haven't run this for even 1k yet:
COLD: 180, 182, 181, 184
WARM: 181, 181, 181, 181

The even compression can definitely be felt in how the engine idles. My poor, poor starter.... it was idling so butter smooth and I was looking over at my wife rather than at the tach and I tried to start an already running engine! The 7.75psi (8.5psi cold) increase in compression is definitely what I felt the other day; I've gotten used to it now, so I'll notice if it improves again, as well.

Not bad for 13 years and 167k miles; or for a cooking oil, for that matter!

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
So... you put Canola oil in the crank case? How much? What car? What effects do you expect to achieve?


He is pulling your leg. He stated in some other thread this was simply a joke.


Who's pulling legs here?


you said:

Quote:
I posted a thread recently about an "experiment" I did just screwing around, figuring at least a couple people here might be entertained by my post.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...585#Post2944585

I understood you made up such "experiment" to entertain.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
So... you put Canola oil in the crank case? How much? What car? What effects do you expect to achieve?


He is pulling your leg. He stated in some other thread this was simply a joke.


Who's pulling legs here?


you said:

Quote:
I posted a thread recently about an "experiment" I did just screwing around, figuring at least a couple people here might be entertained by my post.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...585#Post2944585

I understood you made up such "experiment" to entertain.


Then you understood incorrectly. I said "experiment" because I didn't initially plan to approach it scientifically. I thought my 2nd paragraph made it clear that I was at least semi-serious and was, in fact, experimenting with canola.

No leg pulling here, and better results than a certain other controversial additive... kinda makes one wonder, hmm?

Actually, it's not really fair of me to say that, as Artem didn't post before and after compression numbers and my before shots are actually after shots of a prior successful cleaning, so we don't have similar data to compare. But yes, this experiment is very real.

 

[morris]

canola oil has a smoke temp 400F us guys in the radio control hobby dont use conola oil in 2 cycle engines cause it wount handle the heat. we do use castor oil it is good to 600 or 800 f

 

[friendly_jacek]

i did a google search for: canola oil lubricant
and some weird stuff showed up.

 

[DBMaster]

^Not exactly weird, just not predominantly related to use as an ENGINE lubricant.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: morris
canola oil has a smoke temp 400F us guys in the radio control hobby dont use conola oil in 2 cycle engines cause it wount handle the heat. we do use castor oil it is good to 600 or 800 f


Rotella T6 has a flashpoint of 435.2F, which is one of the highest I've seen (the entire M1 line is in the 410-430F range with maybe one or two that exceed that) and most motor oils are around 380F, so 400F doesn't worry me, nor should it worry anyone else running it in their car.

Castor was used as an aviation engine lube during WW-I, but fell out of favor due to the fact that bomber pilots are much less accurate (it mattered with the bombs used back then, remember) when they're busy sh***ting their pants. Canola was used during WW-II; it only gained widespread use as a cooking oil (aside form a few regions where It had already been in use for decades) after the war, when there was a surplus of it and many Canadian farmers would have been ruined had they not been able to sell it in a different market.

The more you know...

 

[GMorg]

Well, if we are doing history lessons, the word "Canola" did not exist before 1978. Canola is a special form of rapeseed oil or wild mustard oil. Rapeseed naturally contains erucic acid which was thought to be toxic to mammals, like us. In the '70s, a group at the University of Manitoba (Canada) developed a variety of rapeseed that is low in erucic acid and decided to call the new variety, CANadian Oil, Low Acid -- CANOLA.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: GMorg
Well, if we are doing history lessons, the word "Canola" did not exist before 1978. Canola is a special form of rapeseed oil or wild mustard oil. Rapeseed naturally contains erucic acid which was thought to be toxic to mammals, like us. In the '70s, a group at the University of Manitoba (Canada) developed a variety of rapeseed that is low in erucic acid and decided to call the new variety, CANadian Oil, Low Acid -- CANOLA.


This has all been covered in other threads, bu the summary is appreciated I'm sure by users who have note already read those threads.

Edit:
I am perhaps misquoting when I say that canola was used during WW-II, as canola in its curently known and named form had not yet been developed, but rapeseed oil, of which canola is a variety, did exist and was used. Both are still widely used for industrial lubrication.

 

[nicholas]

I will be following this thread with much interest - as Canola was something I also thought about using but never actually tried it. The theory behind it - natural ester source - is sound.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: nicholas
I will be following this thread with much interest - as Canola was something I also thought about using but never actually tried it. The theory behind it - natural ester source - is sound.


I'm up to 24oz (18.75% of sump capacity) added now. Accounting for losses (to leaking and/or burning) it's probably closer to 16.893% in reality.

I need to remove and reinstall my timing chain tensioner with a new o-ring at some point. On the up side, it looks like I might start my 25% test a bit early

Another member PM'd me that they're going to try canola in their Mustang before they swap in the newly rebuilt engine they have waiting. Perhaps my preliminary results can be confirmed before I get around to testing on my wife's car. That would be kinda neat

 

[Mystic]

I think Lubegard used rapeseed oil to develop some of their products. Not completely sure of that, but I heard that rapeseed was one of the plants that was tested to see if sperm whale oil could be replaced.

 

[JHZR2]

Canola, like any unbuffered veg oil, can and will polymerize at elevated temperatures. I anticipate varnish and sludge formation if too much is used too long.

Oils like canola can be used as fuels. In the tropics, palm oil was once an acceptable emergency fuel in MB diesels. I'd avoid putting this in diesels due to the potential for runaway.

Generally my concern is acidification or radicalization and polymerization. I'd want to be very sure that I selected the applicable antioxidant for the canola.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: nicholas
. The theory behind it - natural ester source - is sound.


Says who? Lots of esters out there, doesn't mean the complete chemistry is right.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Canola, like any unbuffered veg oil, can and will polymerize at elevated temperatures. I anticipate varnish and sludge formation if too much is used too long.

Oils like canola can be used as fuels. In the tropics, palm oil was once an acceptable emergency fuel in MB diesels. I'd avoid putting this in diesels due to the potential for runaway.

Generally my concern is acidification or radicalization and polymerization. I'd want to be very sure that I selected the applicable antioxidant for the canola.


Pretty much the whole point of what I'm doing is, anticipating the same issues, to find out what "too much" and "too long" are. There's a reason I'm using a stout HDEO as a base for this experiment, and that is to maximize the possible "how much" and "how long" values; a reasonable next step from there would be to repeat the experiment using a "lesser" oil, perhaps QSUD or PYB, to determine what a more reasonable dosage and interval might be.

Another member here is conducting a parallel test on an engine he's already planning to replace (as in - has the rebuilt engine standing by), presumably with the intent of destroying it prior to replacement. He is currently running clean oil to wash out a previous OCI in which MMO was used before running a 10% canola OCI. I'm told I'll be kept updated on his progress, in which case I'll post updates for his vehicle, as well. I only hope that, at the end of his trial, this user will come forward and post their own results, as well, good or bad.

So far, there are no visible signs of any issues in my engine, though I haven't yet hit 1k on this OCI and don't intend on sending a sample to Blackstone until 3k. Time will tell; if this can be done safely, you can bet many here will take interest. Reminders that there are dangers involved, like your post, are definitely welcome, as such posts will prompt people who may want to try canola in their oil to respect those risks and add canola only in moderation, if at all.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: nicholas
. The theory behind it - natural ester source - is sound.


Says who? Lots of esters out there, doesn't mean the complete chemistry is right.


The theory is sound, indeed; it's a matter of whether the chemistry is, or can be, sound, and that is what I am testing here.

In theory, mixing one ester-carrying oil (canola) with another non-ester oil (T6), in the correct ratio, will yield a viable product offering the best properties of both components. Of course, this relies on the stabilizing additives in the T6 being potent enough to prevent the canola from acidifying, polymerizing, or turning rancid, and the esters contained in the canola being able to sustain the cleaning action of the T6 past the life of T6's own cleaning additives.

Will things work out this way? Honestly, I don't know. In theory, there is some ratio at which the two will compliment each other in this way, but it will certainly take testing and experimentation, to determine whether that theory holds true in reality and, if so, what that "proper" ratio is. Even at that, similar testing would be required for other oils and the work would need to be done again if the formulation of T6 were ever to change (which it certainly will at some point).

Given the specifics of the blend of base stocks and additives used in T6, I could easily determine a reasonable starting point for this. Of course, Shell is beyond unlikely to provide this information to me, so I'm working with what I've got, for better or worse.

This is not something to be taken lightly and certainly not something I would suggest or invite anyone to try on an engine they intend on keeping. Me? Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I plan on running this engine for another 500k or so; that, or blowing it up while testing off-the-wall and out-of-the-box theories. We'll see how that works out I guess.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I think Lubegard used rapeseed oil to develop some of their products. Not completely sure of that, but I heard that rapeseed was one of the plants that was tested to see if sperm whale oil could be replaced.


To be more exact, the rapeseed oil is hydrolized, or broken apart to separate the Erucic acid component from the glycerides.

The Erucic acid component is then reacted with a special alcohol to form a pure, synthesized ester that had the same molecular structure as sperm whale oil.