Canada pulls out of Kyoto

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OVERKILL

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16165033

Quote:
A spokesman for France's foreign ministry called the move "bad news for the fight against climate change", a sentiment echoed by other officials.

Peter Kent, Canada's minister of the environment, has said the protocol "does not represent a way forward".

The move, which is legal and was expected, makes Canada the first nation to pull out of the global treaty.

A spokesman for China's foreign ministry told reporters that the decision was "regrettable and flies in the face of the efforts of the international community", Reuters news agency reported.

The protocol, initially adopted in Kyoto, Japan, in 1997, is aimed at fighting global warming. Through the agreement, countries like China and India take voluntary, but non-binding steps to reduce their carbon emissions.


*snip*

Quote:
He said meeting Canada's obligations under Kyoto would cost $13.6bn (10.3bn euros; £8.7bn): "That's $1,600 from every Canadian family - that's the Kyoto cost to Canadians, that was the legacy of an incompetent Liberal government."

Despite that cost, greenhouse emissions would continue to rise as two of the world's largest polluters - the US and China - were not covered by the Kyoto agreement, Mr Kent said.

"We believe that a new agreement that will allow us to generate jobs and economic growth represents the way forward."



I find it somewhat comical that China is criticizing Canada for leaving, yet they aren't even bound to it.
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Quote:

For low-lying island nation Tuvalu, most at-risk for rising sea levels, the withdrawal was more personal.

"For a vulnerable country like Tuvalu, its an act of sabotage on our future," Ian Fry, Tuvalu's lead negotiator told Reuters. "Withdrawing from the Kyoto Protocol is a reckless and totally irresponsible act."


Australia delegate Greg Combet (left) defended Canada's decision
Australia's lead delegate, Minister of Climate Change Greg Combet has defended Canada's decision.

"The Canadian decision to withdraw from the protocol should not be used to suggest Canada does not intend to play its part in global efforts to tackle climate change," a spokesman told the Sydney Morning Herald.
 
Stick a fork in it. For reasons pointed out, it was economically idiotic for any industrialized country to join with the unlevel playing field such as it is. Not saying I'd be an advocate for treaties like this even if there were a level playing field.
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
OOOOOOIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLL $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Good for Canada! Unfortunately our government is so corrupt and idiotic, we won't partake in the action through things like the keystone pipeline.

Even if AGM is real, Kyoto and efforts to commoditize the cost of CO2 output worldwide is nothing more than a control mechanism. It would have been used to control people and for a very select group of elite people to profit from it.
 
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Another article on it:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/12/canada-formally-withdrawig-from-kyoto-protocol/

Quote:
The Kyoto Protocol was signed in 1997 and ratified by most major countries except the United States. It committed industrialized nations to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions to below 1990 levels and provided financial help to developing countries to accomplish the task.

Although Canada had ratified the accord, it was not on track to meet its targets. Harper’s Conservative government has opposed an extension of the Kyoto accord to future international agreements, arguing that other large emitting countries in the developing world, such as China and India, should be required to meet targets.


Quote:

As a result, he said, the current Conservative government, which took office in 2006, now faces “radical and irresponsible” choices if it is to avoid the $14 billion in international penalties he said it must pay for failing to meet those targets as a signatory to the accord.

Kent said that in order to comply with Kyoto, dramatic action would need to be taken to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

“To meet the target under 2012 would be the equivalent of either removing every car, truck, ATV, tractor, ambulance, police car and vehicle of every kind from Canadian roads, or closing down the entire farming and agricultural sector and cutting heat to every home, office, hospital, factory and building in Canada.”

Kent said this cannot happen, particularly since other major nations such as the U.S. aren’t covered by Kyoto.

“Domestically, we will do our part to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,” said Kent.

“Canada, though, cannot do it alone,” he said, noting that this country produces just two per cent of global emissions.


TWO PERCENT!!!

And 14 BILLION in "penalties" for this sham. Yes, I think Canada needs to worry about working on its own environmental policies..... Ones that make sense and work to the advantage of Canadians, not this skewed "penalty system" where the worst offenders are free to do as they like.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
FINALLY!

However, I don't think we freed ourselves from future carbon tax just yet... cap and trade is still planned to come to US and we will follow.


Yup, and BOTH side of the political isle are for it (even if they won't say it).
 
Good for Canada.

I don't believe anyone has real data that can prove Fred and Barney are responsible for "global warming" that melted the Ice Age.
________________________________

1999 OLDS GLS
 
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Good for Canada.

I don't believe anyone has real data that can prove Fred and Barney are responsible for "global warming" that melted the Ice Age.
________________________________

1999 OLDS GLS

Once we have the proof that we've caused global warming, if that comes to be, we will probably wish we didn't cause global warming, and $14 billion in 2011 dollars will seem like chump change then...
I know I'd write a cheque right now for $4800 for my family if it meant we had a global semi-cautious green house gas plan to reduce the chances of huge climate change problem.
 
Kyoto Protocol was toothless to begin with anyways, the output of CO2 and the economic gain / loss are too lopsided that no country will do anything, because eventually they all fold due to the impact to their own economy.

Like how certain fish stock and fishing methods are banned only when the population collapse, we will not see carbon tax or penalty until we see huge impact in the climate or environment, and even then depends on where is it impacting, we may not do anything still.
 
I don't know the answers but I know

You don't want this type of pollution in your country.

I've wandered through India where cars do NOT require a cat. converter and motorcycles are all 2-stroke (and EVERYWHERE)

You can barely breathe and after a few days in New Delhi, you develop a sore throat. Its scary.
 
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Good for Canada.

I don't believe anyone has real data that can prove Fred and Barney are responsible for "global warming" that melted the Ice Age.


Idiotic argument, and exactly the same as the "our emissions are warming Mars" etc.etc.

We have commenced a massive experiment that has NEVER been performed in the history of the planet (burning carbon the has been out of circulation for millenia (or 4,500 years depending on your koolaid), so asking for proof of precedent is akin to burying your head in the sand and singing lalalala to yourself.

When we know the results of this experiment, there's a fair chance that we will be in a world of hurt, so surely prudence and efficiency is the only sensible course.

That being said, Drew is correct, the schemes being pushed and promoted are a massive control and wealth transfer, and have nothing to do with limiting the effects of our global experiment.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Good for Canada.

I don't believe anyone has real data that can prove Fred and Barney are responsible for "global warming" that melted the Ice Age.
________________________________

1999 OLDS GLS

Once we have the proof that we've caused global warming, if that comes to be, we will probably wish we didn't cause global warming, and $14 billion in 2011 dollars will seem like chump change then...
I know I'd write a cheque right now for $4800 for my family if it meant we had a global semi-cautious green house gas plan to reduce the chances of huge climate change problem.







What you and Panda said are so true, when we all start to feel the effects from our greediness and lack of care for the world we live in, maybe then we will change...unfortunately that will be too late.

The main point is we in the US have to do more to curb greenhouse gasses. We are oil addicts and Canada is another source for our dope. People are getting really rich on both sides and it won't stop.
 
Canada has a lot to gain - when the ice melts, their land will be more usable. It's the countries in the warmer areas that are adversely affected, especially the low lying island nations like the Maldives or Tuvalu.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Canada has a lot to gain - when the ice melts, their land will be more usable. It's the countries in the warmer areas that are adversely affected, especially the low lying island nations like the Maldives or Tuvalu.


Canada is 2% of the world's pollution paying into a system where China is allowed to do whatever the heck they want, and so are you guys. It is in our best interest financially to get the heck out of this.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I find it somewhat comical that China is criticizing Canada for leaving, yet they aren't even bound to it.
crazy2.gif
????

Exactly. How about they enact it if it is so great? Chinese respiration probably makes more CO2 than many small countries' industry, cars and people combined.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Good for Canada.

I don't believe anyone has real data that can prove Fred and Barney are responsible for "global warming" that melted the Ice Age.


Idiotic argument, and exactly the same as the "our emissions are warming Mars" etc.etc.

We have commenced a massive experiment that has NEVER been performed in the history of the planet (burning carbon the has been out of circulation for millenia (or 4,500 years depending on your koolaid), so asking for proof of precedent is akin to burying your head in the sand and singing lalalala to yourself.

When we know the results of this experiment, there's a fair chance that we will be in a world of hurt, so surely prudence and efficiency is the only sensible course.

That being said, Drew is correct, the schemes being pushed and promoted are a massive control and wealth transfer, and have nothing to do with limiting the effects of our global experiment.


Just to clarify, I am not saying that emissions do not need to be controlled. The problem is the way emissions are blamed for global warming and somehow sending money to India will change it. History has proven that the U.S. policy of sending billions to other countries is no guarantee that the money will have any benefit.

"Global Warming" and climate change has been naturally occurring ever since the world started. The Ice Age melted a long time before the industrial age, but the "global warming" scare blames emissions.

Global Warming has some false studies. In a study, the original scare of 15% ice cap melting was changed. "He believes the actual number is closer to 0.1 percent."

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/2...e-melting-claim

Do a simple Google search on "the truth about global warming" and see listings such as whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming.html

More about global warming...
epaabuse.com/1985/news/the-truth-is-derailing-the-global-warming-scam/, or blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/
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(My apologies to board monitor, since I know my response is political, but I am not going to ignore someone calling me an idiot).
 
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Climategate?

Seriously?

Quote:
Six committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct.[14] The Muir Russell report stated, however, "We do find that there has been a consistent pattern of failing to display the proper degree of openness, both on the part of CRU scientists and on the part of the UEA."[15][16] The scientific consensus that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity remained unchanged at the end of the investigations.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy

Check the sources in that article. Don't stop at reading the Wikipedia summary. Look at the full lines of reasoning.

Then read the emails -- the FULL emails, not the snippets that climate deniers punt around -- for yourself.

It's incredibly easy to get sucked into sound bytes. I would hope that on issues of such importance, we would apply a higher level of scrutiny.
 
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