The auto electric shop I use looks terrible but their work is absolutely first rate. They can rebuild a starter or alternator in no time. The work will be right. In 30 years I have been doing business with them I had only one return with them for a bad bearing in an alternator. I believe the bearing was a defective one from the manufacturer.
Can you Tell The Quality of the Shop By It's Appearance
- Thread starter Stumpy
- Start date
Also look at and judge customers in the waiting room.
For neighborhood shops (aka smaller), you might have to see customers in the morning, then in the afternoon, if that's when the traffic is there.
Also listen to way way the desk people communicate....'speaks' volumes (get it?)
For neighborhood shops (aka smaller), you might have to see customers in the morning, then in the afternoon, if that's when the traffic is there.
Also listen to way way the desk people communicate....'speaks' volumes (get it?)
My indy MB/BMW repair shop is a mess but the work is very good.
Kestas
Staff member
I like Skippy's take on it... "organized chaos." The most efficient shops don't have perfect organization, but are loosely organized. They can find what they need amidst the clutter. I hope that reflects on their work as well.
I knew a skilled Mechanic who had a shop which looked like a disaster.
However the highest quality work I've seen or been involved with are several professional racing shops where you could eat off the floor or equipment. You had better be OCD (and very skilled) about everything you do, or you won't cut it.
But yeah if all the Mechanics but one have left, that's not a good sign.
However the highest quality work I've seen or been involved with are several professional racing shops where you could eat off the floor or equipment. You had better be OCD (and very skilled) about everything you do, or you won't cut it.
But yeah if all the Mechanics but one have left, that's not a good sign.
There was an extreme lack of good machine shops here about 20 years ago.
Somehow even Napa was turning out junk. Napa ruined a flywheel we sent in to be ground. Ground it .080 off kilter.
Everyone I asked told me to take my heads to phil.
Did research and found Phil's shop. Place was an absolute disaster. Buthe had constant flow of work from many local shops.
He called and asked me to come down so he could show me something on my heads. I followed him through the maze of engine parts,past piles of valves,springs,pistons etc to my heads.
Eventually I got my heads back and they seemed fine. As far as I know that engine is still running today.
Ya his shop was a mess but he was the best in town.
Somehow even Napa was turning out junk. Napa ruined a flywheel we sent in to be ground. Ground it .080 off kilter.
Everyone I asked told me to take my heads to phil.
Did research and found Phil's shop. Place was an absolute disaster. Buthe had constant flow of work from many local shops.
He called and asked me to come down so he could show me something on my heads. I followed him through the maze of engine parts,past piles of valves,springs,pistons etc to my heads.
Eventually I got my heads back and they seemed fine. As far as I know that engine is still running today.
Ya his shop was a mess but he was the best in town.
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this
Same here.
It seems in general, the best guys are the scatterbrains. With tools all over the place, drawing of stuff, stains on the floor, tools are oily. Sometimes it can be a sign of experience, other times not. I think it can be a good sign of perseverance, and maybe perhaps memory.
If I went into a shop that was pristine, I would have a hard time thinking that they were well practised. At least in the automotive industry.
You can usually tell a lot from someone's shovel. An old worn out shovel, with a splint and duck tape, and an odly shape spade, worn from use, usually indicates the owner knows how to use a shovel.......
the result is what you are after, not the way.
The shop I use is cluttered w new & used parts stacked up with a scrape lot in the back. They service: marine, auto, industrial equipment and heavy equipment with a small retail shop. They do towing, hauling and trucking as well. The dad started it in the early 70s and his son runs it now. Just the 2 of them but the dad just does the light stuff and driving truck when he wants. They have a couple old desk chairs to sit on inside the door with a faded old sign outfront and busy as ever.
I would not take my vehicles anywhere else. They are honest, do great work, reasonable rates and will get you in anytime needed.
I would not take my vehicles anywhere else. They are honest, do great work, reasonable rates and will get you in anytime needed.
Owen Lucas
$100 Site Donor 2023
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- 3,583
As an insurance adjuster I have been to 1000's of body shops. From dealerships that are personally inspected by Roger Penske, audited by manufacturers, have laser welders, dedicated aluminum bays, and side loading paint booths to hole in the wall shops, some that haven't been updated since the 70's.
I don't recall ever going to a corporate or franchise shop that was messy. Sure, I've seen some disorganized tool carts in these places but generally they were organized and well run. At this scale there are regional managers and a chain of command up to the C-Suite that sets standards and maintains SOPs.
Then you have the high level mom and pop places, some that are working towards being bought out by a franchise. They might have 2 or 3 locations. These are usually on par with corporate shops as they have gotten there through hard work and organization. The office is clean and they are tough and knowledgeable estimate negotiators. Running a finely tuned shop as a smaller business is not easy but if you do it right you will attract insurance companies and will be able to obtain manufacturer certifications allowing you to compete with dealership shops. Afterall, a manufacturer won't certify you if your shop is messy and doesn't have top of the line equipment and a budget to afford manufacturer specific tooling.
The medium level mom and pop shops might have family working in the office or in back. They usually do not have manufacturer certifications, and might not intend on getting them either because they are not eligible due to lack of tech or budget. These are a decent shops, usually organized but not exactly eat-off-the-floor like Penske shops. They'll save you your deductible and might have a few rebuilt salvage cars to offer as rentals to make more money from the insurance company.
Then there are the low level mom and pop, or just pop shops where there is like 1 - 3 people working. These are basically hole in the wall places. There is no office staff, just the owner who is usually wrenching will be my point of contact. They might be fixing cars outside as the shop is too small for more than 3 cars and their paint booth looks pretty rough. Places like these are usually messy, boxes of opened parts, cores lying around, dusty fenders and crashed parts leaning against the shop wall taking up space needlessly . Leaking air lines, oil spills, drab interiors, there might be an vintage diagnostic machines in the corner. The office is a mess (if there is one) and it's possible there is insurance fraud going on. It's always fun visiting these places and seeing the weird stuff going on inside.
This being said, I have seen decent quality work from the lower end shops as well. Is it guaranteed like the first 2 levels? No. They can't achieve the OE standard of repairs that a fully certified shop with the best equipment will. If you have a taxi that needs to be banged out for the 23rd time, sure, these are the places to do it and they might have it done by COB. You need a need quarter panel on your A8? Wait a month if you are lucky but the work will be top notch as these ALU parts are only sold to certified shops and repaired by a guy named Fernando who used to assemble Ferraris in Maranello.
It's really up to what your standard is for the level of work you need done.
I don't recall ever going to a corporate or franchise shop that was messy. Sure, I've seen some disorganized tool carts in these places but generally they were organized and well run. At this scale there are regional managers and a chain of command up to the C-Suite that sets standards and maintains SOPs.
Then you have the high level mom and pop places, some that are working towards being bought out by a franchise. They might have 2 or 3 locations. These are usually on par with corporate shops as they have gotten there through hard work and organization. The office is clean and they are tough and knowledgeable estimate negotiators. Running a finely tuned shop as a smaller business is not easy but if you do it right you will attract insurance companies and will be able to obtain manufacturer certifications allowing you to compete with dealership shops. Afterall, a manufacturer won't certify you if your shop is messy and doesn't have top of the line equipment and a budget to afford manufacturer specific tooling.
The medium level mom and pop shops might have family working in the office or in back. They usually do not have manufacturer certifications, and might not intend on getting them either because they are not eligible due to lack of tech or budget. These are a decent shops, usually organized but not exactly eat-off-the-floor like Penske shops. They'll save you your deductible and might have a few rebuilt salvage cars to offer as rentals to make more money from the insurance company.
Then there are the low level mom and pop, or just pop shops where there is like 1 - 3 people working. These are basically hole in the wall places. There is no office staff, just the owner who is usually wrenching will be my point of contact. They might be fixing cars outside as the shop is too small for more than 3 cars and their paint booth looks pretty rough. Places like these are usually messy, boxes of opened parts, cores lying around, dusty fenders and crashed parts leaning against the shop wall taking up space needlessly . Leaking air lines, oil spills, drab interiors, there might be an vintage diagnostic machines in the corner. The office is a mess (if there is one) and it's possible there is insurance fraud going on. It's always fun visiting these places and seeing the weird stuff going on inside.
This being said, I have seen decent quality work from the lower end shops as well. Is it guaranteed like the first 2 levels? No. They can't achieve the OE standard of repairs that a fully certified shop with the best equipment will. If you have a taxi that needs to be banged out for the 23rd time, sure, these are the places to do it and they might have it done by COB. You need a need quarter panel on your A8? Wait a month if you are lucky but the work will be top notch as these ALU parts are only sold to certified shops and repaired by a guy named Fernando who used to assemble Ferraris in Maranello.
It's really up to what your standard is for the level of work you need done.
I love going to shops like these. It's like a museum or being in a movie, or in an American Pickers episode. You can't replicate this environment, it has to be created by a slightly OCD or ADD mechanic over the span of at least 2 decades.
This is a huge red flag all by itself.
I don’t think it matters that much. The workmanship and integrity are what matter.
People are more complex than that. A clean shop with “organized people” can still screw you over with up charges and recommending unnecessary or fraudulent work.
People are more complex than that. A clean shop with “organized people” can still screw you over with up charges and recommending unnecessary or fraudulent work.
The point about overhead is a good one. If you want a nice waiting room, you're paying for that. I've joked before that my customer lounge is a folding camp chair, and it's true. I only let people hang around for quick things like oil changes.
Corporate buyouts or franchises are also interesting. Two fairly large local indies have gone to being an "America's Auto." I imagine it's a good thing for the shop owner in the short term, but I have doubts about any benefit for the customers or quality of work. Call me a skeptic.
Corporate buyouts or franchises are also interesting. Two fairly large local indies have gone to being an "America's Auto." I imagine it's a good thing for the shop owner in the short term, but I have doubts about any benefit for the customers or quality of work. Call me a skeptic.
Results are what matters. I like seeing clean/neat shops as well. It indicates some pride of ownership and workmanship to me. On the other hand, I bet many of you have watched Chasing Classic Cars on Motor Trend TV. That's owned by Wayne Carini who has done Monterey winning vintage car restorations at that shop. His shop as shown on TV and in my opinion, is a pit. I mean it's kind of visual dump for the caliber of restorations he and his team have done there. The "results" from that shop speak for themselves.
