Can you convince me to run 0w30 instead of 0w40?

[srivett]

I am thinking of buying some Esso XD-3 0w30 instead of 0w40 for future use in my car. The car is a 1992 non-turbo VW 1.6 litre diesel with 391K km (244K miles).

The car runs fine on Rotella 0w40 and doesn't burn more than 1/3 litre per 5000 km. My goal is to run 12-15K km on synthetic oil while the factory spec is up to 12K km on the regular oil available back in 1992. The manual recommends 10w30 up to 15C (~60F) and 15w40 up to 30C (~85F). Well, nobody and I mean NOBODY uses single weight oil in Canada at any time, even when above 30C, so maybe the manual can be ignored a little for W30 oils too? It actually says that straight 30 can be run up to 30C so why not 10w30?

Is there a 15w40 or 0w40 oil out there that has an actual running temperature viscosity that is the same or below the actual running temperature viscosity of XD-3 0w30?

Why would I do this? Cheaper oil and slightly better mileage. If I get 1% better mileage I will notice it, my car is very consistant. I am also trying to make my car get the same mileage as it did when new. When I got the car I was getting 800-850 km per tank but I'm now up to 925km per 53 litres running winter fuel and winter tires. When new the car got about 1100 km on summer fuel and tires. The car has never had the engine, transmission, injectors, or fuel injector pump rebuilt.

Thanks for the input,
Steve

 

[tukeanu]

This doesn't answer your question but they sell Shell Rotella T 0W-40 at Canadian Tire. It's $30/ 4 litre down here. Is that cheaper than the Esso oil mentioned? I see it brought up often on this site but being new here I haven't heard of it before. Seems to be very popular. Is it 100% synthetic? The Rotella I mention is.

 

[JHZR2]

the best thing to do is try, particularly with a few oil analyses done to verify perofrmance. Remember, as oil is loaded with soot, it will thicken, so theoretically, a high 30 weight oil could bvecome a low 40wt oil pretty easily.

That said, most euro engines seem to be designed with 40wt oils in mind, and Id probably run a 0w-40 year round, for the best combination of oil film at temperature, and cold flow.

If you get the same wear numbers, same consumption (or within an acceptable increase to you), etc., AND improved economy, which tends to be hit or miss when changing viscosity, then Id say go with it.

I might be a little worried running a 30 weight oil in the high heat of the summer, but since its a syn oil, it may make less of a difference.

Once again, oil analysis is the only real way to tell.

JMH

 

[Hajoca]

Just some Info here... Esso XD-3 is about $21 CDN per gallon, which is why I chose to use this oil instead of Rotella SB from Canadian Tire.... I do see in the other threads that some members dispute wether an oil id truly synthetic based on the make up of base oils, but

I just see that I can get 3 jugs of Esso XD3 for the price of 2 Rotella SB.

I have to change my oil about once every 5 weeks

Before I found a place to get XD3, I used Petro Canada's Duron synthetic where I can get a jug at $24 CAD.

 

[Quick_lude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hajoca:
Just some Info here... Esso XD-3 is about $21 CDN per gallon, which is why I chose to use this oil instead of Rotella SB from Canadian Tire....

---

Actually not sure where in Toronto you are but you can pick up a 4x4L case for $61 plus tax from the Noco distribution centre on Queensway next to Ikea. That works out to $ 3.81 per litre.

I'm just finishing an 8000 km interval with the xd-3 0w30 in my 2004 F250 PSD. Should have the results of the analysis by Friday or by next week sometime.

 

[Ugly3]

If you can get 10 PSI of oil pressure per 1000 RPM with 0w30 motor oil at full operating temps you should be just fine.

 

[Hajoca]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quick_lude:
Actually not sure where in Toronto you are but you can pick up a 4x4L case for $61 plus tax from the Noco distribution centre on Queensway next to Ikea. That works out to $ 3.81 per litre.
[/QB]

---

I know that it is cheaper at the NOCO, but every time I can get near there, it is closed.

I am in Concord, but work in Oshawa. Walmart or a truck parts dealer will get it for me at that $21 CDN price.

 

[Quick_lude]

True, they close at 3pm and for you that's rather far.

 

[seememom]

I'm trying the 0W30 in a 2003 Jetta TDI right now. Bought it because of the price, and the properties are pretty close to the 0W40.

I think it will work well considering all the new 506.1 oils are 0W30.

 

[Cyprs]

Guys here in SW Sask are running 0-30 XD3 in their Dodge Cummins diesels all year round because it is .50 litre less than the 0-40, summer temps get to 105F or 43C in summer, I am not that brave with my Cummins, I use the 0-40 XD3 year round. the visc difference in 0-40 XD3 to 0-30 XD3 is 15.7 compared to 12.1, flow rates the same, TBN is same at 12.2. These are heavy duty oils. I use the 0-30 XD3 in hard reving QR25DE Nissan gasser year round no matter the temp. Great winter oil, -60F or -48C pour point both grades.

Cyprs

 

[pitzel]

Someone in the TDIclub forums with an engineering background has made claims of accelerated cam wear as a result of using 30-weight oils instead of the recommended 5W-40. Said gentleman, I think Drivebiwire, claims to have done cam measurements comparing a 30-weight oil to Delvac-1 5W-40 and measured accelerated wear.

Then again, there is also someone in the TDIclub forums who has been running Mobil-1 0W-20 (not even a diesel-rated oil) with excellent UOA results. So I personally, based on the data, am reluctant to make any sort of convincing argument other than to say that 0W-40 is a pretty 'safe' bet for a VW diesel, and that a thick 0W-30 is probably acceptable. At 250k miles, you don't have a lot to lose either.

 

[LubeOiler]

Speaking of TDI Forums I thought this was of intrest to the diesel fans: Something similar applies also to the next entwicklungsstufe of the Diesel. Those stands according to Richard baking house under the generic term "part-homogeneous Diesel burn". "with this procedure the fuel is already injected during the compression. Thus it would have much time to mix itself with air." The burn should be particularly clean thereby. "the challenges exist among other things in the accurate controlling of the beginning of burn." A date for the series employment of the technology might lie also after the year 2010.

 

[Don Stefanik]

Just a thought, but our XL5W20 is also CF rated and can be used in this application for the winter.
I can sure beat the Esso price.


TECHNICAL PROPERTIES (Revised 3/05)
AMSOIL XL 5W-20 SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL 5W-20
(XLM)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
8.5

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
45.4
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
165
CCS Viscosity, cP @ (°C) (ASTM D2602)
3818 (-30)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
226 (439)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
236 (457)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97) -43 (-45)
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (DIN 51581)
10.7
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity @ 150°C and 1.0 X 106 s-1, cP (ASTM D4683) 2.7
Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D 4172 @ 40 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hour, Scar in mm)
0.43
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 9.0

 

[FowVay]

I have disassembled a few of the old 1.6 liter VW diesels that have been operated on everything from 10W-30 to 20W-50 mineral oils and the bottom end didn't seem to be affected.

The areas that were of concern were the vacuum pump drive that would ultimately pound itself out of specification and cause low oil pressure at low rpm. The vacuum pump is driven off of the auxiliary shaft which also drives the oil pump. When the slots in the shaft wear it causes slop and such a fluctuation in the drive gear that the low oil warning light/buzzer will sound at low RPM.

On the new TDI's the vacuum pump is driven off of the end of the camshaft and doesn't have this problem.

As for a xW-20 oil, regardless of the API rating I would not use a oil with a HT/HS of only 2.7 cP's. For longevity try to use oils that are a full point higher (3.7) which is the requirement for heavy duty 15W/20W/25W-40 and xW-50 oils. Volkswagen specifies a minimum of 3.5 in their own specification.

So in response to the initial question,, I simply can't offer any valid data to support the use of a xW-30 oil over a xW-40 oil unless it is a xW-30 oil with a HT/HS in the 3.5 range. There are some out there but don't know if the Esso in question is one of them.

 

[pitzel]

Some of the oils VW is spec'ing in their sold-in-Europe diesels are 0W-30 viscosities, instead of the 5W-40 viscosity typically associated with North American-sold VW diesels.

I think the XD-3 0W-30 is one of the highest HT/HS oils available in the SAE 0W-30 viscosity range.

Interesting points about the vacuum pumps, but please do tell me why there would be a vacuum pump on a diesel at all -- is it so that VW can continue to use 'legacy' accessories throughout the rest of the car? Sounds like a waste of energy to be powering that stuff pneumatically.

 

[FowVay]

Vacuum pumps are used for such niceties as power brake boosters. Since there is no manifold vacuum on a diesel then they need to use a separate pump for such purposes.

Many older Euro cars also use vacuum to operate the power door locks and all cars that I know of use vacuum to operate the climate control functions; ie. to actuate the control gate which directs air to the vents/floor/windshield, etc.

 

[bar1]

If the 0W-30 oil has an HT/HS@150C > 3.5 (ACEA A3/B3) I would use it. I'm going to use Castrol SLX Longtec 0W-30 in my 1996 Audi S6 2.2 TQ Avant this winter. It's VW502.00, ACEA A3/B3, etc, etc...