Can we talk oil in high-performance motorcycles?

[wewsnu]

Consider moly, ZDDP, Ca, etc, which oil has the best additive package for your bike?

What do you run in your bike?

and why?

I just did a drain and fill on a 750 gsxr and used some supertech 15-40 I had sitting. I know HD oils make up 1/2 of what people run at the strip now so I figured I'd pour it in and do some reading on BITOG.

Lots of threads out there I'm reading, but a good percentage of threads on this issue seem to have degenerated into silly arguments about HD oil belonging in bikes or not, with heated arguments with some people I don't even think have bikes and others who will be [censored] if some kids are using cheap rotella and getting better wear than their $8 qt harley oil, and still others making claims of how you must only run motorcycle oil in motorcycles because of the clutches. I don't care about any arguments, I'm merely asking what oil you run and why!

Let me know what you pour in your sport bike! It's appreciated!

 

[sm00thpapa]

Right now I'm running Castrol 4T Dino 10W-40 because it was the cheapest oil at the time I purchased it. I have 3 quarts of Castrol 4T Racing RS Full Synthetic 10W-40 to go in next since I heard some good things about it. Once that's all said and done I am going with Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5W-40. I did some research on the Supertech 15W-40 and using it in my 99 Rodeo and it is a very good oil and can hang with any 15W-40 dino oil by top name brands.

 

[daz]

I'm running M1 V-twin for the simple reason that in the last two bikes i had it made both run stronger than most other oils i tried. It's easy to find and as cheap as any bike specific synthetic and cheaper than most. So it ticks all the boxes....cheap as bike specific full synth goes, find it most anywhere locally, and the bike runs as good as anything i've tried and better than most. I can feel a considerable increase in acceleration over many other oils, and that can only be due to one thing....less friction. So lets face it, trying to find better than this for me would be like putting all your effort into finding a new woman when you're married to (your fav hot movie star here). In other words, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and especially when it's not only not broke, but working better than ever ! Seriously, seems like whatever i put V-twin in runs better. Hard to argue with that.

Oh, by the way....I was using Torco which has FAR more moly in it than any other oil. Something like 700 PM something like 95% more than any other with one exception i cannot recall but was about 60% less than torco. Moly is supposed to be very slippery, yet the V-twin must be moreso due to the increase in power. Like i said, more power can only mean one thing, less friction. So i'm not so sure moly is a good thing. Then again, i have wondered is the reason for it's lesser performance was the moly cause slippage, especially considering how much low end torque my bike has. But it IS rated JSMO or whatever that spec is that means it has no issue with wet clutches.

 

[rraiderr]

Based on the my endless UOA's and the testing Sunruh did I am running the maxima 4 ultra or the Amsoil 20w-50 in my track bike.

I did break it in with rotlla.

 

[sm00thpapa]

Originally Posted By: rraiderr
Based on the my endless UOA's and the testing Sunruh did I am running the maxima 4 ultra or the Amsoil 20w-50 in my track bike.

I did break it in with rotlla.


Do you have a link to those UOA's?

 

[Robenstein]

Well i will tell you that in a shared sump bike you want an oil without a lot of moly. Moly in high enough concentrations will cause clutch slippage in you zuki. If the oil is JASO MA or MA2 you are better off. Some oils like Redline are JASO MB which means there is enough friction modifiers in it to cause the some slipping in some bikes.

Amsoil and Mobil 1 are darn good oils.

 

[daz]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Well i will tell you that in a shared sump bike you want an oil without a lot of moly. Moly in high enough concentrations will cause clutch slippage in you zuki. If the oil is JASO MA or MA2 you are better off. Some oils like Redline are JASO MB which means there is enough friction modifiers in it to cause the some slipping in some bikes.

Amsoil and Mobil 1 are darn good oils.


Thats what i was saying....why does it meet specs with so much moly. But it does. Bottle says JASO MA. I read something about there being different types of moly and i think the moly torco uses isn't the same that is typical. I may have read that on the torco site or in an article with quotes by a torco exec. But in any case it has a ton of moly and is rated JASO MA.

 

[sunruh]

all depends on what you classify as high performance.
some seem to think that 1940 technology updated to 1970 is huge.
others might not agree.
imho, if your motor is not making 140hp per 1000cc you havent even gotten onto the playing field and takes more to step up to the plate.

with that said, there is then a lot of factors to consider:

1) track time
2) track temps
3) tear down schedule
4) sponsors
5) cost - wow imagine that!
6) oci's
7) .....

and probably the most important -> how serious are you? no really!

steve

 

[sm00thpapa]

Guess I'm not on the playing field since my bike is a 600cc and only makes 78hp. LOL!

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: daz
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Well i will tell you that in a shared sump bike you want an oil without a lot of moly. Moly in high enough concentrations will cause clutch slippage in you zuki. If the oil is JASO MA or MA2 you are better off. Some oils like Redline are JASO MB which means there is enough friction modifiers in it to cause the some slipping in some bikes.

Amsoil and Mobil 1 are darn good oils.


Thats what i was saying....why does it meet specs with so much moly. But it does. Bottle says JASO MA. I read something about there being different types of moly and i think the moly torco uses isn't the same that is typical. I may have read that on the torco site or in an article with quotes by a torco exec. But in any case it has a ton of moly and is rated JASO MA.



But if you take the Amsoil tests on good faith, when they tested Torco, it failed to make and JASO rating at all, not even MB.

 

[wewsnu]

Great replies so far fellas! Thanks!!

 

[daz]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein



But if you take the Amsoil tests on good faith, when they tested Torco, it failed to make and JASO rating at all, not even MB.



I didn't notice that. I wasn't really looking at the Torco scores but the M1 and motul. Makes sense tho. Makes me that much more suspicious that maybe it was clutch slip due to the moly that accounted for some or all of the power increase i saw switching to M1.

 

[CBR.worm]

I am currently running T6 while I wait to have a clutch recall done (I wish they would just give me the parts), normally I run M1 Racing 4T at 800-1,000 mile intervals. I used to run Golden Spectro with really good results (visual and measured at teardowns), but I know some people don't care for it. I stopped using it when it crossed the $5 a quart mark. After my Fram fiasco about 14 years ago I now run only OEM filters on bikes.

I raced Honda 600's and suzuki 750's for many years on a variety of oils and heard so much stuff it would make your head spin. My cam grinder used to ship a note in the cam boxes that said there would be no warranty on the cams if synthetic oil was used - they recommended a blend or regular dino. My engine builder used to say that Mobil 1 caused cylinder scuffing - he recommended Spectro blend or Dino oil. The guy who cut my transmissions recommended only Mobil1.

The end result though is that with many thousands of race miles and having gone through many engine iterations, I never had an oil related engine failure. Unless the time the oil filter blew off (safety wire and all - thanks Fram!) at 14,000 RPM in top gear counts. But even then the damage was minimal. Crank and rod bearings were replaced as a precaution. That was either M1 or Golden Spectro - I can't remember.

My results from the limited UOA's I did many years ago was that no oil I ran was suitable for more than about 1,000 miles. Maybe things have improved today - I think honda calls for 8K OCI on my current bike - which is double what Nissan requires in my cars.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: sm00thpapa
Guess I'm not on the playing field since my bike is a 600cc and only makes 78hp. LOL!


I wouldn't say that.

The specific output for that engine would be around 125 h.p./liter. For the purpose of this discussion, I'd say that most motorcyclists would consider that as high performance albeit not leading edge.

 

[Norm Olt]

Most modern motorcycles are pretty "high performance" to begin with, IMHO.

The more esoteric the higher the "state of tune", which, one would have to admit, is pretty well engineered-in at the factory with all the computer controlled fuel-injected systems.

140 hp out of 1000cc (and 80 ft/lbs. torque!) is pretty awesome! Getting 40+ mpg is really nice, as well. That's what my Kawasaki got in 1993.

What is even more amazing to me is the difference between my '93 ZX-11D (@140 hp & 600 lbs. wet weight) and a modern 1000cc sportbike at 160+ hp and 425 lbs. wet weight!

I can't lose 175 lbs. but I can buy a more powerful bike with better brakes, suspension, etc., a couple of years old for what is basically a song. A 2008 CBR1000RR at $7,500 is a motorcyle that would have been competative in racing when my ZX-11D was new!

I don't know if I can justify the purchase as it is pretty hard to use all this additional performance on the street. All the talk about "track days" in the motorcycle press is primarily directed at thrill seekers 3 or 4 decades younger than I, IMHO...

Returning to the original topic, oil is so much better in general, but I'll stand by the use of any variety AMSOIL 10W-40, 20W-50 or 15W-40 in modern high performance motorcycles.

Cheers!

 

[sm00thpapa]

Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
I am currently running T6 while I wait to have a clutch recall done (I wish they would just give me the parts), normally I run M1 Racing 4T at 800-1,000 mile intervals. I used to run Golden Spectro with really good results (visual and measured at teardowns), but I know some people don't care for it. I stopped using it when it crossed the $5 a quart mark. After my Fram fiasco about 14 years ago I now run only OEM filters on bikes.

I raced Honda 600's and suzuki 750's for many years on a variety of oils and heard so much stuff it would make your head spin. My cam grinder used to ship a note in the cam boxes that said there would be no warranty on the cams if synthetic oil was used - they recommended a blend or regular dino. My engine builder used to say that Mobil 1 caused cylinder scuffing - he recommended Spectro blend or Dino oil. The guy who cut my transmissions recommended only Mobil1.

The end result though is that with many thousands of race miles and having gone through many engine iterations, I never had an oil related engine failure. Unless the time the oil filter blew off (safety wire and all - thanks Fram!) at 14,000 RPM in top gear counts. But even then the damage was minimal. Crank and rod bearings were replaced as a precaution. That was either M1 or Golden Spectro - I can't remember.

My results from the limited UOA's I did many years ago was that no oil I ran was suitable for more than about 1,000 miles. Maybe things have improved today - I think honda calls for 8K OCI on my current bike - which is double what Nissan requires in my cars.



A lot of good info here thank you. Yamaha recommends 4K OCI on my bike. So if you say every oil you ran was used up by 1K is 4K to long for MC OCI's? I have only been riding for 3 years and got into MC oil in that time. I got the Castrol 4T and the Castrol Power RS Racing Full Synthetic as I got a good price on them. I am going to use them because I don't want to waste them.

I'm down to these as my choices:


M1 10W-40 or 20W-50

Amsoil 10W-40 or 20W-50

Shell Rotella T 15W-40

Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5W-40


Which one oil do you all recommend and why?

 

[boraticus]

Shell Rotella T 15W40 because:

It provides more than adequate protection, returns excellent UOA reports, it's available everywhere and it very well priced.

What more could one ask for?

 

[sm00thpapa]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Shell Rotella T 15W40 because:

It provides more than adequate protection, returns excellent UOA reports, it's available everywhere and it very well priced.

What more could one ask for?


Thanks bro. Sure does seem I can pick up both Rotellas for cheaper than the Amsoil and Mobil 1. Guess I found my new oil.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Shell Rotella T 15W40 because:

It provides more than adequate protection, returns excellent UOA reports, it's available everywhere and it very well priced.

What more could one ask for?


It to come in a 50 weight so many of us air cooled motor guys can use it when its above 40 degrees out.

 

[boraticus]

Buy it. Use it. Change it every 3000 miles and ride with confidence.

I've been using it for years in all kinds of machines from ATVs to motorcycles and in some OPE. Never an issue.

I used it in both 1984 185cc air cooled and 1987 250cc Suzuki ATVs that I bought new and owned for over twenty years. Those machines were flogged mercilessly for years by myself and a few kids but also received proper regular maintenance (primarily annual oil changes.) I've since sold both machines but know the guys who bought them. They're both still running fine.

I presently use it in two liquid cooled Suzuki ATV engines, a 650 liquid cooled Kawasaki KLR650 and in a liquid cooled Valkyrie. I sleep very well at nights knowing my machines have excellent oil in them and I didn't pay a fortune for it.