Saw this story of planes stranded on a mountain https://www.weatherbug.com/news/Alaska-Snowstorm-Strands-5-on-North-America-s-Tall and how it might be a while before they can get back to fly them out, by which time the batteries might be dead. Can they be pushed downhill so that at a certain speed the prop will turn fast enough to start the engine?
Can propeller planes be push started?
- Thread starter atikovi
- Start date
Pushed downhill? No. Not fast enough to rotate the prop.
In the air, yes, you can fly at a speed that allows you to restart the engine.
But in this case, you can hand-prop the engine. Basically, like starting a model-T, ignition on (powered by magnetos, not a battery), carb set to about idle, fuel full rich, depending on the engine, and then a helper pulls the prop sharply downward and cranks the engine.
It’s not common, there is a protocol set of coordination commands to minimize risk, and it’s not without risk, but I believe it’s still taught. Certainly viable in this case.
In the air, yes, you can fly at a speed that allows you to restart the engine.
But in this case, you can hand-prop the engine. Basically, like starting a model-T, ignition on (powered by magnetos, not a battery), carb set to about idle, fuel full rich, depending on the engine, and then a helper pulls the prop sharply downward and cranks the engine.
It’s not common, there is a protocol set of coordination commands to minimize risk, and it’s not without risk, but I believe it’s still taught. Certainly viable in this case.
So basically a 90 degree turn of a prop is enough to start a cold engine?
It's April 1st all over again. 
Someone asked this before? Link?
There are planes still being manufactured in which someone can pull the prop with their hands to start them?
I used to fly model airplanes with the COX .049 engines. You start them by winding up the prop that has a spring.
Cox model engine - Wikipedia
Somehow I'm thinking of how older props were manually started. Not sure how fast it would need to be for the air (especially at high altitude) to windmill the prop.
I think it would be more reliable to just bring in a supplemental power source .
I think it would be more reliable to just bring in a supplemental power source .
This guy did not go fast enough to windmill the prop. However, I believe he did that intentionally. It takes some effort to stop a prop in flight, generally pulling into a stall. Then careful management of airspeed to keep it from windmilling again. My airplane, a Cessna 177RG has a best glide speed of about 70. If I can get the prop to stop, it will glide considerably farther. But anything over about 85Kts will get the prop moving, at which point, it starts windmilling fast.
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Only if a treadmill is involved.
I looked up the location (Ruth Glacier) which is not that high up - maybe 4500-8000 ft. I thought that maybe they could be removed by heavy lift helicopter.
However, they already flew back last Monday. Not sure why articles from April 7 talk about coming back for them when they were already off the glacier by Monday, April 5. The glacier seems to be commonly used for "flight seeing" where they just land on the glacier surface.
www.adn.com
However, they already flew back last Monday. Not sure why articles from April 7 talk about coming back for them when they were already off the glacier by Monday, April 5. The glacier seems to be commonly used for "flight seeing" where they just land on the glacier surface.
Planes stranded on Denali glacier by bad weather were flown out Monday, national park officials say
Five people stayed overnight Friday on Ruth Glacier. On Saturday, guides led them to a shelter about 3.5 miles away, troopers said.
www.adn.com
Update 9 a.m. Thursday, April 8: The stranded group, which included one teenager, was flown off Ruth Glacier on Sunday by an air taxi operator, the Denali National Park said in a statement.
On Monday, the three pilots were flown back to their stranded, ski-equipped planes, which were not damaged.
Apparently you can push start a jet;
"Then USAF Captain John Green flew his F-100 one day into the Marine Corps Air Station (aka NAS Millington ) outside of Memphis one day, back in the early '70s, for fuel.
He was met by a couple of young Marine ground crewmen, who asked what kind of plane he was flying. F-100 'Supersabre' only got him further puzzled looks. One of the ground crew said, "Sir, I don't think we have tech data on this bird. What do you need for start . .. a huffer . . or just electrical"?
"Neither one," John replied with his tongue in his cheek. "If I can get, oh, about six of you guys to give me a push to start me rolling, I'll just 'pop the clutch' and get the engine started that way."
More and more doubtful looks, but, "Uhhh,Yessir," was the final comeback. What else would a young Marine say ?
The 'Hun' was pretty finely balanced aircraft on the two main gear struts, so when you tapped the toe brakes, the nose strut compressed so much that the nose would dip, just like the hood of cars used to dip when being clutch-started after a similar push from young friends.
So, now six Marines are standing at the ready, still doubtful, but not about to question an officer on 'procedure.’ “Just get me going at about a fast walk," John called down from the cockpit. "I'll wave you all clear when we're fast enough, pop the clutch on this baby, and be on my way. And thanks for the good turnaround!"
With six Marines pushing, they quickly get the bird up to a brisk-stepping speed. John waves his arms, and the Marines warily stand well clear.
The nose dips as John "pops the clutch." There is a huge cloud of choking black smoke as the starter cartridge goes off, the Hun's engine whines into life, and off goes Captain Green to the end of the runway, leaving six puzzled Marines in his wake."
"Then USAF Captain John Green flew his F-100 one day into the Marine Corps Air Station (aka NAS Millington ) outside of Memphis one day, back in the early '70s, for fuel.
He was met by a couple of young Marine ground crewmen, who asked what kind of plane he was flying. F-100 'Supersabre' only got him further puzzled looks. One of the ground crew said, "Sir, I don't think we have tech data on this bird. What do you need for start . .. a huffer . . or just electrical"?
"Neither one," John replied with his tongue in his cheek. "If I can get, oh, about six of you guys to give me a push to start me rolling, I'll just 'pop the clutch' and get the engine started that way."
More and more doubtful looks, but, "Uhhh,Yessir," was the final comeback. What else would a young Marine say ?
The 'Hun' was pretty finely balanced aircraft on the two main gear struts, so when you tapped the toe brakes, the nose strut compressed so much that the nose would dip, just like the hood of cars used to dip when being clutch-started after a similar push from young friends.
So, now six Marines are standing at the ready, still doubtful, but not about to question an officer on 'procedure.’ “Just get me going at about a fast walk," John called down from the cockpit. "I'll wave you all clear when we're fast enough, pop the clutch on this baby, and be on my way. And thanks for the good turnaround!"
With six Marines pushing, they quickly get the bird up to a brisk-stepping speed. John waves his arms, and the Marines warily stand well clear.
The nose dips as John "pops the clutch." There is a huge cloud of choking black smoke as the starter cartridge goes off, the Hun's engine whines into life, and off goes Captain Green to the end of the runway, leaving six puzzled Marines in his wake."
WOW! Yours had a spring? Mine was just done with a flick of your finger...and you HAD to be REALLY QUICK!!
So the answer is YES, they can! IF you can push them to about 85 knots!
OSHA spring.
I saw a few of these. I saw someone making a model with fabric at a summer camp. It was one of the counselors killing time. The propeller was held in place with a rubber band, but an engine could have been installed. For some reason I found it hilarious that it was being painted with “fuel proof dope”.
I hand started one of these when I was working as an instructor, many years ago.
en.wikipedia.org
I used the safety voice commands and positioned myself properly. One of the common practices when hand propping and airplane is to pull the engine through a couple crankshaft revolutions with the mags off, to prime the combustion chambers. Then pull the engine through slowly until you feel a piston compressing the air/fuel charge and stop. Next you have the pilot arm the mags and then pull hard down and away from the prop while you are stepping back. I had never hand propped this particular radial engine or any other radial engine. It can be hard to "feel" the next piston come up on compression stroke, because of the drag of other pistons. What I didn't realize is that the next piston coming up on compression stroke was already most of the way though compression stroke and the magneto dog was about ready to release the mag and cause a spark. I grabbed the prop and pulled it about 5 degrees to try to "feel" the compression stroke. At about 4 degrees it fired and started. I wasn't ready and it scared the daylights out of me. There was no danger, because my feet and body were positioned correctly, but my momentum wasn't carrying me away yet. When you momentarily stand about 18" from that big prop turning about 1500 RPMs it is something you will not soon forget. I will never make that mistake again.
Yakovlev Yak-55 - Wikipedia
I used the safety voice commands and positioned myself properly. One of the common practices when hand propping and airplane is to pull the engine through a couple crankshaft revolutions with the mags off, to prime the combustion chambers. Then pull the engine through slowly until you feel a piston compressing the air/fuel charge and stop. Next you have the pilot arm the mags and then pull hard down and away from the prop while you are stepping back. I had never hand propped this particular radial engine or any other radial engine. It can be hard to "feel" the next piston come up on compression stroke, because of the drag of other pistons. What I didn't realize is that the next piston coming up on compression stroke was already most of the way though compression stroke and the magneto dog was about ready to release the mag and cause a spark. I grabbed the prop and pulled it about 5 degrees to try to "feel" the compression stroke. At about 4 degrees it fired and started. I wasn't ready and it scared the daylights out of me. There was no danger, because my feet and body were positioned correctly, but my momentum wasn't carrying me away yet. When you momentarily stand about 18" from that big prop turning about 1500 RPMs it is something you will not soon forget. I will never make that mistake again.
Agreed, in my experience somewhere in the 75-80 KIAS range is when they start to grab.
Must have lost the hand crank! 
I remember those too.
I had a Stuka Dive Bomber with the .049 engine. I let my older brother fly it and he crashed it. When we got it all back together the prop spring was missing. We had to use the index and middle finger to flick the prop to get it to start. If you weren't quick enough to move your fingers back the prop caught them and it was painful!
Also, there was a device under the plane that made a noise as the wind would pass thru it, that represented the authentic sound the actual Stuka planes made as they dive bombed. My real German mother gave me this plane as a Christmas gift when I was 12. I really do miss her.
