I was just wondering if Mopar ATF-4 can be used in place of Honda Z-1 or Toyota T-IV. Or any other applications for that matter?
Can Mopar ATF-4 be used in other applications?
- Thread starter CharBaby
- Start date
- Status
Kestas
Staff member
I heard chatter from the Mercedes crowd that ATF-4 can be successfully used in place of the "dealer-only" fluid for post-Dexron MB transmissions. One Mercedes owner reported success over many miles using ATF-4. Dealer fluid is $16qt. ATF-4 is much less.
The reasoning behind this is that the Chrysler Crossfire and Mercedes SLK use the same transmission, yet the fluid spec'ed for each application is different. So it stands to reason that the two fluids are similar.
The reasoning behind this is that the Chrysler Crossfire and Mercedes SLK use the same transmission, yet the fluid spec'ed for each application is different. So it stands to reason that the two fluids are similar.
Yup.
Boy , Is this one I'd really like to know about - in practical terms .
Char Baby , thanks for bringing it up .
Part of what I do (when able) is work with various volunteer groups . Within that activity , 'we' have the activity of trying to 'square away' or 'make better' not just primary recipients vehicles ( when applicable - which isn't often - very , very few have a vehicle) but also the other volunteer's vehicles .
So right now we have a big pile of various donated supplies and caches we can draw from , including a large group of Valvoline ATFs of all types .
Practically speaking , I can see we could possibly be more efficient if we could mix ATF+4 with Dexron3h , Mercon5 and various others . Any operational benefits would be icing on the cake .(Obviously , Type F is not on this list)
Like everything in these groups its a real 'ad hoc' kinda deal , so much of what 'we' would like to 'use and do' just isn't going to happen on a regular basis - because of cost and the 'supply situation' .
'Best' solutions (or 'high end') also aren't in the cards here - really just trying to avoid major mistakes as much as anything else .
In a sense , I'm trying to throw out my own rule book - find the 'bottom' not the top .
unDummy , Critic , WhiteWolf, Onion , anybody? , besides the MB 'aspect' any other 'hands on' - 'worked in the field' experience with this kind of 'mixing' or full substitution?
I've been experimenting a little bit and so far on about 4-5 applications it seems you can get an acceptable result with 10 -15% ratios - whole different story at 100% - which is no surprise (I'm assuming we've all read our more technical threads here on all these fluids types and their differences) .
So far , I've been able to keep this to mixing within the Valvoline brand or the same 'store brand' .
Char Baby , thanks for bringing it up .
Part of what I do (when able) is work with various volunteer groups . Within that activity , 'we' have the activity of trying to 'square away' or 'make better' not just primary recipients vehicles ( when applicable - which isn't often - very , very few have a vehicle) but also the other volunteer's vehicles .
So right now we have a big pile of various donated supplies and caches we can draw from , including a large group of Valvoline ATFs of all types .
Practically speaking , I can see we could possibly be more efficient if we could mix ATF+4 with Dexron3h , Mercon5 and various others . Any operational benefits would be icing on the cake .(Obviously , Type F is not on this list)
Like everything in these groups its a real 'ad hoc' kinda deal , so much of what 'we' would like to 'use and do' just isn't going to happen on a regular basis - because of cost and the 'supply situation' .
'Best' solutions (or 'high end') also aren't in the cards here - really just trying to avoid major mistakes as much as anything else .
In a sense , I'm trying to throw out my own rule book - find the 'bottom' not the top .
unDummy , Critic , WhiteWolf, Onion , anybody? , besides the MB 'aspect' any other 'hands on' - 'worked in the field' experience with this kind of 'mixing' or full substitution?
I've been experimenting a little bit and so far on about 4-5 applications it seems you can get an acceptable result with 10 -15% ratios - whole different story at 100% - which is no surprise (I'm assuming we've all read our more technical threads here on all these fluids types and their differences) .
So far , I've been able to keep this to mixing within the Valvoline brand or the same 'store brand' .
Last edited:
I've used ATF+4 100% in place of MerconV, Mercon, Dexron, matic D, SPIII, M-V...... I've also have used it for partial drain/refills(>30%) in T-IV, Z1, J matic.....applications with future drain/refills planned to use more ATF+4. Shift quality and transmission feel was excellent.
What 'different stories at 100%' are you having?
Why do you think that there is much of a difference when simply moving up to a better fluid to replace 1/2 dozen inferior ATF's?
What 'different stories at 100%' are you having?
Why do you think that there is much of a difference when simply moving up to a better fluid to replace 1/2 dozen inferior ATF's?
I would use it in any power steering pump,transfer case calling for ATF of any sort,manual transmissions calling for any sort of ATF but I would not run it in an automatic that did not call for it. Their are so many Universal Synthetic ATF's on the market to choose from.
Price and available are the 2 reasons that I'am considering the ATF-4 for my Lexus due to the fact that Im not 100% satisfied with the T-IV. The automatic tranny shift quality seems to have deminished over time even though I drain and refill the tranny annually. 1st to 2nd gear shifts are very lethargic. Im really looking for something different at a good price. And the fact that the price of the T-IV has gone up considerably in my area to over $6.00 per qt. I can get Valvoline ATF-4 at Advance Auto Parts for $2.95 per qt.
CharBaby, make sure that your ATF is topped off correctly.
And, leave the battery disconnected overnight now, and after each drain/refill. A yearly drain/refill is great maintenance if yearly mileage driven isn't much. How many miles do you drive a year?
Luxury cars tend to have 'lethargic' shift programming for the typical US consumer. Lethargic comes from the 'slip controlled' shifts and the engine's power reduction to make that shift seamless. Not much you can do there.
If shift sloppiness occurs when cold, this is when synths and blends can help. If shift slop occurs when hot, invest in an ATF cooler to prevent temp spikes.
And, leave the battery disconnected overnight now, and after each drain/refill. A yearly drain/refill is great maintenance if yearly mileage driven isn't much. How many miles do you drive a year?
Luxury cars tend to have 'lethargic' shift programming for the typical US consumer. Lethargic comes from the 'slip controlled' shifts and the engine's power reduction to make that shift seamless. Not much you can do there.
If shift sloppiness occurs when cold, this is when synths and blends can help. If shift slop occurs when hot, invest in an ATF cooler to prevent temp spikes.
So, you have had success in Mercron V applications. I would like to see a spec sheet side by side with Mopar+4, Mercron V, Dexron V, and some special oils like Amsoil and Redline C+. I think, myself included we are stuck on labeled applications not specs...Amsoil universal and Mobil universal are attacking this stagma with their new universal ATF's.
We are stuck on labels and not specs. You can compare like brand spec sheets. And, sad but true, PERFORMANCE specs for many newer licenses are GONE. Those specs are now replaced by approved 'formula' specs, which doesn't mean you're getting the best fluid for the buck.
Only thing not mentioned is seal compatibility(pretty much universal now), and HFM level.
Typical transmissions that want lower HFM levels tolerate higher levels easily. This is why DexronVI and MerconV have backwards compatibilty.
Newer trannies that require HFM levels usually do NOT tolerate lower HFM levels(all that slip control in the shift and TC lockup). This is why DexronIII and Mercon 'forward' compatibility does not exist. This is the main cause of wrong fluid issues.
Please step 'up' or use a like fluid. Don't not step 'down' when choosing your ATF. Quicklube/garages and cheap backyard mechanics do this all the time and cause issues.
Seal compatibility isn't an issue because most newer ATF's are backspec'd for various older specs. They are blended for universal compatibility in PSF, x-cases, 'ends, FWD, AWD, and RWD transmissions from various sources with various gasket, glue(RTV), and seal materials. Newer transmissions have typical synthetic seal materials.
I'd fear using a new ATF in a 30 year old tranny. Who knows what organic seals, gaskets, and rubbers were used back then? I wouldn't worry about those old units that were recently rebuilt using quality parts.
Only thing not mentioned is seal compatibility(pretty much universal now), and HFM level.
Typical transmissions that want lower HFM levels tolerate higher levels easily. This is why DexronVI and MerconV have backwards compatibilty.
Newer trannies that require HFM levels usually do NOT tolerate lower HFM levels(all that slip control in the shift and TC lockup). This is why DexronIII and Mercon 'forward' compatibility does not exist. This is the main cause of wrong fluid issues.
Please step 'up' or use a like fluid. Don't not step 'down' when choosing your ATF. Quicklube/garages and cheap backyard mechanics do this all the time and cause issues.
Seal compatibility isn't an issue because most newer ATF's are backspec'd for various older specs. They are blended for universal compatibility in PSF, x-cases, 'ends, FWD, AWD, and RWD transmissions from various sources with various gasket, glue(RTV), and seal materials. Newer transmissions have typical synthetic seal materials.
I'd fear using a new ATF in a 30 year old tranny. Who knows what organic seals, gaskets, and rubbers were used back then? I wouldn't worry about those old units that were recently rebuilt using quality parts.
unDummy,
Yearly mileage is about 10,000 miles and yes, the fluid is topped of correctly(checked HOT!) it's right there. I'll drain 4 qts & add 4 qts and she's full at the line after a long drive, and over the line when the engine is turned off, both times being checked on level ground. I've tried the battery thing in the past and doesn't seen to change anything. Still a smooth tranny, it's just that I've driven smoother for alot less money. Seem like previous Toyota auto trannys shifted smoother. Like the 92-96 Camry as one car magazine stated: "Peels off shifts like a Hobart Deli Slicer". Mine isn't that smooth!
Yearly mileage is about 10,000 miles and yes, the fluid is topped of correctly(checked HOT!) it's right there. I'll drain 4 qts & add 4 qts and she's full at the line after a long drive, and over the line when the engine is turned off, both times being checked on level ground. I've tried the battery thing in the past and doesn't seen to change anything. Still a smooth tranny, it's just that I've driven smoother for alot less money. Seem like previous Toyota auto trannys shifted smoother. Like the 92-96 Camry as one car magazine stated: "Peels off shifts like a Hobart Deli Slicer". Mine isn't that smooth!
Wow, I do not think I would run it in the Lexus it is probably going to cause so eradict shifting charteristics in that transmission. If you want to upgrade to something different consider M1 ATF of DexVI. We know thaat prior to going to T-IV all of Toyota's automatics used DexIII fluids. We know that in many case's they did not change a thing other then to change the fluid mid production. I have used M1 ATF in every Toyota automatic my family has owned and so have a lot of others so it is almost a guranteed way to go. No sense being the first one to experiment with ATF+4 in your Lexus when plenty of Toyota owners have already tried M1,Amsoil,Redline and RP ATF in ther transmission with no ill effects!
Well along this question, other than the composition of the FM package, is there really THAT many differences these days between ATF specifications? Most trannys are spinning computers so to speak, so the fluids would have to keep up base package wise, right? Or is this the very heart of the many different spec'd fluids of today?
ATF+4,Mercon V, Dex VI and Amsoil will all be fine.Castrol Import will work also.
I once used ATF+3 in a 89 Mazda electronic 4 speed. Worked better than any Dex I've used before. Also used ATF+3 in a Honda Prelude ATX 1993, known for harsh, choppy shifting. Since the fluid change it has more or less shifted flawlessly for over 100K kms
- Status
