Can Am UAO @ 3256mi with Amsoil

[tc1446]

I give you the whole report below but my question is, does the viscosity in this case (down from 40 to upper 20's) become the determining factor that the oil needs changing SOON? The ALB lab gave it a yellow caution flag.

Factory is firm about not using a heavier grade oil than 10-40 due, I think, to the flow thru both motor and clutch/gear box. Previous reports have been similar to this one, so it seems this machine shears a lot.

In one case I substituted a quart of 20-50 of the 4 1/2 total and that maintained the viscosity very well till my normal change every 4000 mi (manual calls for 4500)
however, I am apprehensive about this as I have an extended warranty and don't want to jeopardize it.

DATE REPORTED 01-Aug-13

27256 mi on Can Am 993CC V-Twin
3256 mi this oil change
Amsoil Syn motorcycle Oil
10W40


Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 27
Chromium (Cr)
Lead (Pb) Copper (Cu) 7
Tin (Sn) Aluminium (Al) 9
Nickel (Ni) 2
Silver (Ag) Titanium (Ti) Vanadium (V) Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 4
Sodium (Na) 73
Potassium (K) Coolant No
Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 15
Calcium (Ca) 3184
Barium (Ba) Phosphorus (P) 1238
Zinc (Zn) 1428 1
Molybdenum (Mo) 40
Boron (B) 34
Contaminants
Water (%) Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 9.3
Physical / Chemical
Base Number (mgKOH/g) 8.9

 

[Quattro Pete]

Where is the sodium coming from? AFAIK, Amsoil motorcycle oil does not contain any.

 

[BISCUT]

I'm not familiar with CanAm's but my Kawi Brute 750 tears oil up!!! I'd for sure change it out as looks like a hig Iron # but I'm no expert. Also the fact it sheared down would make me say time to change. Unless your running Honda 400 these things are rough on oil!

 

[tc1446]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Where is the sodium coming from? AFAIK, Amsoil motorcycle oil does not contain any.


Pete, prob from about a qt Valvoline makeup oil I had used. Two prev reports of Amsoil only contained only 3 & 6 respectively, and one of Valvoline only contained 251. All these were
at 3000 miles.

Just for info, Valvoline contained less Calcium, Phosphorus, Moly, & Zinc than Amsoil. No idea what all this means.

My next oil change which is due real soon is going to consist of Castrol 10-40 blend. I think they package BRP's blend which is used by all the dealers unless the customer specifies BRP synthetic, which again is prob Castrol as its a 5-40. Just want to see how well the Can Am does with a blend.

The iron content has been pretty consistant over the last 5 reports, mostly in the 20's range. None of the reports have highlighted those numbers and I don't know what may be normal for this machine. Hopefully with nearly 28,000 mi on it, theres nothing major going on.

 

[rrounds]

I have found that Shell Rotella 15/40 shears less than motorcycle oils did in my bike. So that is all I use now in all three of my bikes.

ROD

 

[ccdhowell]

I'd say get ready for a really low viscosity number from that Castrol blend. Never had a Castrol oil in a moto engine hold any kind of viscosity; not a bad oil, just have to change it quicker.

My advice would be to stick with the Amsoil, change and sample at 3,000 miles. That may be a more reasonable OCI to run. Don't get locked in to the recommended OCI, the OEMs seem to recommend unrealistic OCIs. Amsoil has been more shear stable in my moto engines than any oil I've sampled. This does not include Rotella 15/40 however, just for the sake of clarity. You will likely get many on this forum to recommend the Rotella.

 

[tc1446]

Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
I'd say get ready for a really low viscosity number from that Castrol blend. Never had a Castrol oil in a moto engine hold any kind of viscosity; not a bad oil, just have to change it quicker.

My advice would be to stick with the Amsoil, change and sample at 3,000 miles. That may be a more reasonable OCI to run. Don't get locked in to the recommended OCI, the OEMs seem to recommend unrealistic OCIs. Amsoil has been more shear stable in my moto engines than any oil I've sampled. This does not include Rotella 15/40 however, just for the sake of clarity. You will likely get many on this forum to recommend the Rotella.


Good to know about Castrol. I've never used it so I'll definitely have it tested at 3000K and can get the results back in a week. Curiously, OEM recommended 3000 mi changes for some time but last year upped it to 4500. I've been a long time user of Amsoil and change it every 4000, but like to experiment a little now and then.

As to Rotella, several Can Am riders have reported clutches slipping and the more knowledgable guru's on Can Am's strongly recommend against it for these machines. Theres been a few whose clutches have gone up in the normal course of events and BRP has strengthened the clutch plates and increased oil flow. This suggests mine and earlier ones are borderline anyway.

 

[sunruh]

friends dont let friends run castrol (unless its 0w30 GC).

clutch slippage because of SRT? HA HA HA HA HA!

their clutch was already bad. srt just cleaned it to the point to show their real issue.

if you feel ok with doing 3k oci's on amsoil. why change?

and how could canam tell if you put in 1qt of 20w50?
does your manual show a range for oils at certain ambient temps
or just 10w40 for everything?
i find it hard to believe they would spec the same oil for below zero and above 100.

steve

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: rrounds
I have found that Shell Rotella 15/40 shears less than motorcycle oils did in my bike. So that is all I use now in all three of my bikes.

ROD


My sentiments exactly.
My days of buying over priced bike oils are over. Rotella is cheap and I don't even think twice about 3000 mile changes whereas when I paid 15 a quart for syn I was trying to stretch the interval attempting to get some value from the added expense,and I put up with sub par shift quality for a whole trying to get those few extra miles out of the oil.
Those days are over. I change the oil as soon as it starts shifting inconsistently and I have fantastic running bikes with not a second though about the cost.
Rotella for the win

 

[tc1446]

I change at 4K, not 3K. I do every test at 3K to see how the oil is doing.

No argument about Rotella guys and I'd like to use it, but with a $28K machine and potentially weak clutch plates I'm not taking a chance. The nearly $1000 it costs for a new clutch buys me a lot of Amsoil at less than $10 qt.

I believe...and this is just my idea...the reason the heavier weights are not recommended is because the oil tube (or whatever its called) is not believed to be large enuf to allow full flow thru the semi-auto clutch. The replacement clutches are now made of steel rather than aluminum with an additional plate added and the oil tube has been enlarged.

OEM for winter use is 5-40 full synthetic. Here in NC the climate is fairly mild so I stick with 10-40 only.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: rrounds
I have found that Shell Rotella 15/40 shears less than motorcycle oils did in my bike. So that is all I use now in all three of my bikes.

ROD


My sentiments exactly.
My days of buying over priced bike oils are over. Rotella is cheap and I don't even think twice about 3000 mile changes whereas when I paid 15 a quart for syn I was trying to stretch the interval attempting to get some value from the added expense,and I put up with sub par shift quality for a whole trying to get those few extra miles out of the oil.
Those days are over. I change the oil as soon as it starts shifting inconsistently and I have fantastic running bikes with not a second though about the cost.
Rotella for the win


My thoughts exactly as well and sometimes I get in heated debates but test after test always shows that when oil is shared with the transmission it WILL shear down.
So no matter the oil, the oil with the highest low number will almost always win. Example 5/40 oil (I dont care what brand, synthetic or not)will always shear before a 10/40 oil, a 10/40 oil will always shear before a 15/40 and without question a 20/50 will shear the least.
Of course, before I get flamed there are exceptions to anything but just look through UOAs with shared transmissions and this will be the rule.

The reason being, (as a rule) the 5 w oil starts off with a 5 weight oil and adds viscosity agents to make it act like a 40 weight when hot. These agents get torn up by the transmission and with so much of those agents to make the oil act like a 40 weight from a 5 tearing them up leaves you with a 30 weight after 2000 miles.

Now at the other extreme, a 20 w oil starts off with a 20 weight oil and needs MUCH less viscosity agents to bring it up to a 50 weight, therefor after 2000 miles in a engine with a shared transmission you still have darn close to the 20/50 you started with.

Summers I use 20/50 Valvoline Conventional Motorcycle Oil, by it at Walmart for $4.00 a quart or you can buy it Walmart online. I post the report in here, its now on the 2nd or 3rd page.
NO motorcycle oil, no matter the brand will hold viscosity better and it will beat ANY 10/40 oil at ANY Price when it comes to holding viscosity.

 

[quarterliter]

For 13 bucks a quart you could get red line motorcycle 10w40. It will smoke this amsoil although it does have high moly

 

[kschachn]

Really, how interesting. I never knew.

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
The reason being, (as a rule) the 5 w oil starts off with a 5 weight oil and adds viscosity agents to make it act like a 40 weight when hot. These agents get torn up by the transmission and with so much of those agents to make the oil act like a 40 weight from a 5 tearing them up leaves you with a 30 weight after 2000 miles.

Now at the other extreme, a 20 w oil starts off with a 20 weight oil and needs MUCH less viscosity agents to bring it up to a 50 weight, therefor after 2000 miles in a engine with a shared transmission you still have darn close to the 20/50 you started with.

 

[Mackelroy]

Originally Posted By: tc1446
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
I'd say get ready for a really low viscosity number from that Castrol blend. Never had a Castrol oil in a moto engine hold any kind of viscosity; not a bad oil, just have to change it quicker.

My advice would be to stick with the Amsoil, change and sample at 3,000 miles. That may be a more reasonable OCI to run. Don't get locked in to the recommended OCI, the OEMs seem to recommend unrealistic OCIs. Amsoil has been more shear stable in my moto engines than any oil I've sampled. This does not include Rotella 15/40 however, just for the sake of clarity. You will likely get many on this forum to recommend the Rotella.


There is no stronger clutch oil than Rotella,(bar none). In fact its so strong I hate the [censored] cause it causes excessive notchy shifting in some bikes.




Good to know about Castrol. I've never used it so I'll definitely have it tested at 3000K and can get the results back in a week. Curiously, OEM recommended 3000 mi changes for some time but last year upped it to 4500. I've been a long time user of Amsoil and change it every 4000, but like to experiment a little now and then.

As to Rotella, several Can Am riders have reported clutches slipping and the more knowledgable guru's on Can Am's strongly recommend against it for these machines. Theres been a few whose clutches have gone up in the normal course of events and BRP has strengthened the clutch plates and increased oil flow. This suggests mine and earlier ones are borderline anyway.

 

[beanoil]

Just to clarify... This is a Rotax 990 V-Twin in a Can Am Spyder?

 

[tc1446]

Originally Posted By: beanoil
Just to clarify... This is a Rotax 990 V-Twin in a Can Am Spyder?


Yes, although its supposed to be 998 or thereabouts. Same oil is pumped thru both trans and engine.

 

[beanoil]

TC, yeah, it is a 998, Rotax refers to it as a 990. The same engine in the Aprilia Motorcycle line calls for a 15w50. Can-Am does not give an approval on anything heavier than an xw40, but obviously, your results indicate it certainly would help the outcome, and there are a whole lot of Aprilia riders using xw50's. Ive got 1600 miles on a fill of Liqui-Moly 10w40 in my Spyder... It will get changed at 2000 miles and I'll get a UOA done to see how it held up. I'm very, VERY tempted to switch to a 15w50 next time around, or at least a 50/50 of 10w40 and 15w50. Your results don't support an extended drain like Amsoil says is possible, or even the Can-Am recommended 4600 miles. Amsoil purists can resist from commenting. I'm not bashing Amsoil, just saying that in this application Amsoil (and frankly probably almost any other 10w40 oil around) didn't hold up.

 

[Clevy]

I've seen it all now.
How exactly is running a 10w-40 going to any different than a 15w-40 in any temps above freezing.
They are both 40 grades. The 15w-40 will stay in grade longer because of less viscosity index improvers.
Clutch slipping isn't the oils fault. That's mechanical. I can believe you've convinced yourself that running amsoil will negate having to repair the issue.

I don't even know where to start in this thread. So I'm just walkin away

 

[brave sir robin]

Originally Posted By: beanoil
TC, yeah, it is a 998, Rotax refers to it as a 990. The same engine in the Aprilia Motorcycle line calls for a 15w50. Can-Am does not give an approval on anything heavier than an xw40, but obviously, your results indicate it certainly would help the outcome, and there are a whole lot of Aprilia riders using xw50's. Ive got 1600 miles on a fill of Liqui-Moly 10w40 in my Spyder... It will get changed at 2000 miles and I'll get a UOA done to see how it held up. I'm very, VERY tempted to switch to a 15w50 next time around, or at least a 50/50 of 10w40 and 15w50. Your results don't support an extended drain like Amsoil says is possible, or even the Can-Am recommended 4600 miles. Amsoil purists can resist from commenting. I'm not bashing Amsoil, just saying that in this application Amsoil (and frankly probably almost any other 10w40 oil around) didn't hold up.


I wouldn't put too much stock in what aprilia recommends for their maintenance. I owned a falco and their maintenance intervals for everything were super conservative. fuel filters every two years (same filter as what is used in my friends nissan pathfinder mind you) valve adjustments every other oil change (9500 miles) If you go to aprilia forum you will be VERY hard pressed to find anyone who actually had to have their valves adjusted. My falco was pushing 50k miles and never needed an adjustment. I asked the dealership here in town how much a valve adjustment would cost and the service manager actually laughed at me and said "why? those things are like clocks". The v990 is a fantastic engine with very very few faults. Mine was tuned and it ran fine on 89 octane. They are not exotic like a ducati which is a good thing. anyway back to the oil. There are two main clutch issues with the 990. slipping and drag. Most people help both of these issues by using a 15-40 oil like rotella or even the wal mart variant.

 

[brave sir robin]

also I cannot think of a single 10-40 that is worth anything in motorcycles. They all shear way too fast. That being said.....I did have some success with mixing 3 qts 15-40 with 1 qt 5-40 rotella in my Superhawk and falco during the winter.

seriously when it comes to motorcycles and oil Sunruh is the man and whatever he suggests is as good as its going to get.