VOA+UOA YF Sonata 2.0T 112K-117K miles M1

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VOA M1 Homebrew Blend
Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 1
Chromium (Cr) <1
Lead (Pb) <1
Copper (Cu) <1
Tin (Sn) <1
Aluminum (Al) 3
Nickel (Ni) <1
Silver (Ag) <1
Titanium (Ti) <1
Vanadium (V) <1

Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 12
Sodium (Na) <1
Potassium (K) 10

Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 426
Calcium (Ca) 2329
Barium (Ba) <1
Phosphorus (P) 1302
Zinc (Zn) 1514
Molybdenum (Mo) 613
Boron (B) 207

Contaminants
Water (%) <0.05
Coolant No

Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 12.9

Physical / Chemical
Base Number (mgKOH/g) 9.4

5K OC [At 3880mi 1/2qt low topped off with WallyWorld 5w20] With exception of top-off same oil blend as VOA

Iron (Fe)20
Chromium (Cr) <1
Lead (Pb) <1
Copper (Cu) 5
Tin (Sn) 1
Aluminum (Al)4
Nickel (Ni)<1
Silver (Ag)<1
Titanium (Ti)<1
Vanadium (V)<1

Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 10
Sodium (Na) <1
Potassium (K) 11

Magnesium (Mg)346
Calcium (Ca)2123
Barium (Ba)<1
Phosphorus (P)1122
Zinc (Zn)1305
Molybdenum (Mo)471
Boron (B)111

Physical Tests Viscosity (cSt 100C) 10.1
Physical / Chemical Base Number (mgKOH/g) 5.5

UOA somewhat skewed due to addition of 0.5qt top off oil at 3880mi. 5w30 is the most popular though I strive for 0w-40.
VOA Viscosity 12.9 TBN 9.4 at OC is 10.1/5.5 I wouldn't think half a qt, +11% of existing fill, of 5w-20 at the 3880mi mark would have made a major impact.

NAPA claims everything is copasetic. The one intriguing result for me was VOA viscosity at 12.9. That is the reading for M1 0w-40 as I understand. Although the base for me frankenblend with the addition of 2qt+ of three other grades of M1 I find it at the very least somewhat unusual to have landed on that same spot.

How low could I safely go on TBN number? I'm not attempting to wring the last drop's worth, but if I could go another grand or two betwixt changes that would be a plus. I generally OC 3-4Kmi, but I stretched it a mite this time.
 
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down in the park
I don't think I'd go full 10k miles so 5k is likely easiest to remember to do a change. And if that's an inconvenient time you can postpone another 1 or 2k...
 

Sayonara_Sonata

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I set the first trip meter at OC and check the stick zealously, so if I can go 8K, bearing in mind topping off 0.5qt every 3500mi or so, that would be nice.

The base oil was M1 0w-40. Accompanying oils were also M1. Nothing else was added.
 
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Sayonara_Sonata

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I'm crazy, crazy for feelin' so blue.

Maybe I bought some tainted relabeled black market Russki oil. I did note it said Nyet Mobile Unus.

Or perhaps the NAPA lab guy was huffin' discounted brake cleaner and posted the wrong result.

I could've made a mistake copying the results.

But, that's no concern to me. What do you think of the TBN at 5K after being boosted at 3,880 mi mark?

I speculate that the WW 5w20 does not have as high a value TBN as the original fill. I'm peering at the possibility of adding 0.5 qt of the original fill every 3,500-4K miles pushing to maybe 9K before OC.

Of course that is dependant on how much the TBN degrades, even with 0.5qt boost, from 5K to 7 or7.5K.
 
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Sayonara_Sonata

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I need no help figuring out the mix as I know. This was the first VOA UOA after several OC attempting to dial in by feel. That's why most OC were 3K or closer than 4K.

VOA shows viscosity about 0.4 points above 30 grade max whilst UOA viscosity ends up 0.8 shy of falling out of 30 grade. TBN 9.4 is not great though ending up at 5.5 after 5K seems decent enough. Taking into account the curveball of 0.5qt WW 5w20 top-off naturally.

I will top off this time with M1 0-40 and OC at 6K. Adjusting the next OC blend, take VOA, also topping off with 0-40 and run it to 7K taking a UOA. From those samples I will adjust for summer temps.

I anticipate little variation from the 'way off numbers'.
 

Sayonara_Sonata

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Instead of looking at this comparing it to straight M1 0w40 I thought one or two would compare the deletion amount and percentage of UOA Vs. VOA.

OILS AUTO DELIVERY 12/16/2020 - VOA [UOA]

VOA -Metals (ppm) [5080mi UOA] -3880mi 1/2 qt low topped off Wally-World 5w20

Iron (Fe)1 [20]
Chromium (Cr)<1
-Lead (Pb)<1
-Copper (Cu)<1 [5]
-Tin (Sn)<1 [1]
-Aluminium (Al)3 [4]
-Nickel (Ni)<1
-Silver (Ag)<1
Titanium (Ti)<1
Vanadium (V)<1
Contaminants (ppm)Silicon (Si)12 [10] -- Sodium (Na)<1 [<1] -- Potassium (K)10 [11]

Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 426 [346]
-Calcium (Ca) 2329 [2123]
-Barium (Ba)<1
- Phosphorus (P) 1302 [1122]
- Zinc (Zn) 1514 [1305]
-Molybdenum (Mo) 613 [471]
-Boron (B) 207 [111]
-Contaminants Water (%)<0.05--Coolant-No

Physical TestsViscosity (cSt 100C)12.9 [10.1] -Physical / ChemicalBase Number (mgKOH/g) 9.4 [5.5]
 
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If the numbers are off because no M1 contains Moly or Boron in such elevated levels, how can anything else be trusted with the sample? Might they have given you someone else's results?
 

Sayonara_Sonata

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No, the analysis is correct. I'm not concerned about the elevated levels.

I'm only interested the the rate of depletion and the amount left after 5K of the UOA.

Nor does the addition of 0.5 qt of WW 0w20 at 3880mi concern me. That's trivial. I didn't have any 0w40 on hand and hadn't originally intended to take a sample. But, due to covid & hunkering down I extended me usual 3-3.5K OC to 5K and thought it handy for UOA.

Especially in my case a VOA was proper as well. I since have obtained 0w40, so when I need to top-off I will use straight 0w40. That should happen in the middle of a 7K OC.

Since This UOA was 5K I'm curious about viscosity and TBN. Half a quart of 0w40 should be a mite stouter then 0w20. However 7K OC is close to 1.5X the length of this OC.

I think I can safely stretch to 7K based on the depletion rate at 5K. I'm guessing I could go to 9K, yet my intent is to OC with plenty of add-pack and viscosity ranging in 30w remaining.

For the time being I'm going to OC again at 5K in order to compare results to the last UOA in order to see any potential trends.
 
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12,093
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I am not sure anyone knows what is your "homebrew" as oils do not work that way.
But that Zinc level is for sure going send you to shop for new catalytic converter soon.
 

Sayonara_Sonata

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How many miles do you estimate the cat could last under such environment?

Oils may not work that way. But, from the VOA to UOA at 5K I'm seeing a TBN at 5.5 that only dropped 3.9. A viscosity that dropped from barely a 40 to barely a 30; almost a full grade. Which is concerning unto me. All the while the Boron dropped almost 50% rsting on 111.

I'm not seeing a whole lot to grieve over. I can dial back the zinc next go around.


What secret? I've given a VOA, acknowledged the top off and provided the 5K UOA.
 
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12,093
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How many miles do you estimate the cat could last under such environment?

Oils may not work that way. But, from the VOA to UOA at 5K I'm seeing a TBN at 5.5 that only dropped 3.9. A viscosity that dropped from barely a 40 to barely a 30; almost a full grade. Which is concerning unto me. All the while the Boron dropped almost 50% rsting on 111.

I'm not seeing a whole lot to grieve over. I can dial back the zinc next go around.


What secret? I've given a VOA, acknowledged the top off and provided the 5K UOA.
VOA cannot say anything how those "ingredients" you mixed actually interact with each other. When you mix two different grades, let's say 0W30 and 0W40, you do not get magically 0W35. This has been discussed here forever.
However, the question is: what are you trying to achieve?
 

Sayonara_Sonata

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I asked specifically what anyone thought of the depletion values betwixt the VOA and the UOA over the length of 5K miles. More than once.

I'm not making any claims to a magic grade. For the most part I'm not inquiring on how various elements, even at elevated levels, might respond with one another; save the value of their depletion from VOA to UOA after 5K.

Based on TBN alone one might suggest that this particular blend is good for potentially 10K. One the other hand one might look at the Boron consumption and caution against going further than 7.5K.

You and others are dwelling on the unknown reactions. I merely ask what would you think if this was a run 'o the mill UOA.

If I posted a 5Kmi M1 0w40 UOA that showed Boron at 46% less than VOA what would be your suggestion or interpretation?

I might stretch the next OC to 6K, but that would top it out for me due to the viscosity and really not being interested in dropping very much below a 30 grade.

FWIW: I appreciate the concern of any and all about my cat, O2 sensors, engine and damage potentially resulting from employing various grades/differing amounts of elements not designed necessarily to function at top efficacy or viscosity in a frakenblend.

With that being said I would enjoy input on any individual results from the UOA in comparison only to the VOA. Forgetabout the elevated levels and focus on a rough percentage difference twixt the twain.
 
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12,093
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I personally cannot say anything about your question. Reason is that I don’t have a crystal ball to know what to expect for that mixture. Also, I don’t see oxidation number. Regardless of your TBN (at that TBN, 10k is possible as TBN retention with mileage improves) if your oxidation is too high, then no you cannot go.
if this was known oil, we could assume performance. But, it is not. So, only way to find out is to keep experimenting by doing more UOA at certain mileage. And get TAN too.
 

Sayonara_Sonata

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Thanks for the advice along w/time for your help. I was concerned about this blend of multiple M1 oils. I can appreciate differing designs/formulation based on particular engines/environment. That's why my OCs previously were 3K or a few hundred miles over. I had the NAPA kits for over six month, but I kept tweaking dependent on oil usage combined w/mileage required to knock the green off the oil.

Years earlier I ran 5w40 T6 which has quite a bit more viscosity than M1 0w40. Problem, as I interpreted, was lengthy mileage required to shred the 5w40 to a point where the mechanical cam actuators would respond quickly enough. It accelerated the best from 4-5K which was when I OC'd. Of course there's more internal drag on an engine w/heavier grade, but my contention is the effect in essence is multiplied by the hydraulic function of the actuators Vs. the rest of the internals. [A few years later the intake cam actuator went to electric solenoid mitigating the oil's degree of effect]

This effect was camouflaged by the dealers using 5w20 early on. They did that in part for the higher MPG as it is recommended for the 2.4, yet on the 2.0T the benefit was notably increased performance. Personally, I wouldn't run that thin an oil unless OC was around 1500miles. On air-cooled motorcycles I OC'd 1000-1200 mi. Cheap insurance.

Anywho, I'm drifting OT now.

I'll check w/NAPA about a TAN reading.
 
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I asked specifically what anyone thought of the depletion values betwixt the VOA and the UOA over the length of 5K miles. More than once.
Those are not depletion values but just error rate between two sample points. Many people have posted VOA's where they sampled twice and the numbers were off by many ppm's. This is why VOA's and UOA's are to be taken with a grain of salt.
 
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